(glances left, glances right. Spots exit. RUNS)

I would have been happier if he'd pointed out that there really is no such thing as race, and that anyone who believes there is is a racist by definition.

At least he disavowed the guy who thinks Mr. Farakhan is just swell.

As for Afrofuturism, I'm not sure Mr. Obama's speech was either particularly 'Afro' or particularly futuristic. The idea of the US as an ethnic melting pot goes way back.
-Kle.

Afro Futurism has an amazing tradition, going back to the 60s, and probably a lot earlier. Off the top of my head, Charles Earland's Leaving This Galaxy, pretty much the entire Sun Ra opus, and Parliament's Mothership Connection are totally essential. I'm super excited at the thought of afro futurism becoming a political force in America.

This sounds interesting, but I'm sadly ignorant. Maybe Walter Mosley's Blue Light and other SF stuff would be relevant?

I believe there's an essay in Derrick Bell's Faces at the Bottom of the Well: The Permanence of Racism about how America would respond if aliens came along and offered to trade a lot of advanced technology and stuff in return for the African-American population.

The Nation of Gods and Earths is going to be saved from the White Devil when aliens take them away from Earth aboard their spaceships.

And, of course, much has been made of the space mythology of the Dogons of Mali and a few other African tribes.

I think the connection is two-fold. The first is mostly superficial, forming source material and context for a rich musical and artistic tradition. It's great imagery evocative of otherness, imparts mystery and depth to their creations. I'm sure Miss Hayde is already buried under the Sun Ra, P-Funk discography and hundreds of other jazz, blues, funk, and rap albums. But if she needs source material...

The other, more profound, aspect stems from their alienation and/or desire to find something to connect with -- it's not here so it must be out there, in space. In which case, I don't think Obama wants to appeal to afrospace which harkens to alienation and separation.

Someone once said "Let's screw until we're all slightly coffee colored."

I'm down with that.

Obama for Dhalgren City Council 2008!

Of course, I should add that the Dogon religion was no more space-based than any other tribal mythology, and it was largely scifi nuts and alien-believers who conflated the two. And most people would consider the N.G.O.E.'s/5%ers as no better than Scientologists, but both are worth examination by Miss Hyde.

What is soul...

Soul is hamhawks in my cornflakes

As kooky as the 5%-ers precepts may be, they did give us some of the best hip hop of the golden era: Wu-Tang, Brand Nubian, Eric B & Rakim, Poor Righteous Teachers, Gang Starr...

The Onion may have the best article title EVER for this: [www.theonion.com]

Plus the speech was pretty good. I'll vote for him.

@Klebert L. Hall: There is such a thing as race, because it effects how people interact. Maybe you and Stephen Colbert don't see color, but the vast majority of people in the world do, and will continue too judge others based on just about anything they can get their senses on. If you had said there SHOULDN'T be such a thing as race, I would have had a friendlier attitude towards your words (we can still be friends, don't worry). I don't believe a day will come when humans don't find something to judge other on, but who knows.

As a black man who has lived in the deep south, trust me, there is such a thing as race. Mind you even the worst experiences I have had don't hold a candle to what my father experienced, and what he put up with was better than his father, and so on.

I think the younger generations, especially in ethnically diverse areas are slowly moving to more of a cultural bias than a racial one. What music you listen too, how you dress, and the slang you sling give you a cultural tribe, as much as your race/religion/color. Now they judge, ostracize, belittle, and attack (verbally or physically) people that are culturally different, rather than just on race or religion. That's the human way.

As for the original question sent in, drugs. The answer is often drugs. Drugs, especially hallucinogens, tend to give people a sense of connection to the universe, and often a feeling of transcendence beyond the human world. So alien worlds, dimensional portals, time travel, etc tend to pop up. Or maybe it's just the people I know, books I read, and music I listen too that makes me think that.

Deltron 3030 is the only thing that comes to mind, other than Sun Ra which someone already mentioned. If you like rap, or even if you don't, give them a listen.

@Pham Nuwen:
Hi there (hi, are you talking to me? What is that?)
You probably don't remember me, right? (no, I don't remember you)
Ah-ha, but I remember you (what's that? I don't???)
You probably won't believe this, but, uh
I, at the early age of seventeen
Was adopted by aliens hahahah (hahahaha)
Was adopted by aliens hahahah (hahahaha, oh god)
That's right, I said aliens (ahh)
They have long since programmed me
To return with this message:

When you learn to dance
You won't forget it
Ooh, if you learn to dance
You won't forget it

Orphan boy experiences hardship and alienation on Earth. Is abducted by aliens, comes to think of them as his adopted parents. Aliens give boy brain implant instructing him to teach the world to dance. Boy returns to Earth, teaches white guys how to dance, everyone gets funky. Interbreeding (including alien) results and universal peace ensues. A better plot than Hancock and a better musical than Joss Whedon could ever imagine. Anyone want to start on a script?

@Klebert L. Hall: I think you meant well, so I'm not going to beat you up. I think you were trying to show universal approval of your neighbors, regardless of their color.

Here's the problem with denying 'race': denying race carries with it an underlying assumption that we have to all pretend to be the same. We're not all the same, and why the heck would anyone want us to be? We all have rich and varied histories, cultural and religious traditions, etc. Those histories and traditions are part of what make everyone interesting and valuable. If you really want to live as a person who is not a racist, yes, there is a place for focusing on the many, many things we all hold in common. But to really pull it off, you can't ask anyone to deny themselves, their history and their culture. If you ask people to do that you are offending them and not truly accepting them. Can you see that?

@Tim Faulkner: Electric Spanking of War Babies, great album cover too.

There will never be another...

@Chris Meredith:
"As a black man who has lived in the deep south, trust me, there is such a thing as race."

Okay. To me, 'race' seems to be an arbitrary category invented by people who want to pretend they are superior to another large demographic of people. My guess is that your experience of the existance of 'race' in the deep south is in a similar vein. What is the advantage in acknowledging this ?

It seems to me that it just helps to perpetuate all of the problems.

I agree that people will always find excuses to mistreat each other, but why help it along by using terminology invented by bigots for the purpose of persecution?

@theysaidwhat:
"We're not all the same, and why the heck would anyone want us to be? We all have rich and varied histories, cultural and religious traditions, etc."

How is that different from ethnic/cultural background? What makes something 'race'?

The way I see it, people are all pretty dang similar - we can all have kids together, and if aliens landed tomorrow, I expect we'd 'all look alike to them'. There aren't even any two different populations of human that vary as much as Bassets do from Beagles - I would tend to think there aren't even 'breeds' of human, much less 'races'.

I would also say that people within a 'race' vary as much as they do from people of a different 'race'. Is a person from Trenton likely to have more in common with another resident of Trenton of a different 'race' or are they likely to have more in common with a person of the same 'race', from India?

Besides, isn't it sufficient to think "I'm interesting and unique because of my personality, and my achievements, and the way I treat others", instead of "I'm interesting and unique because I was born to descendants of ethno-cultural group A".

I'd rather be judged by my actions than my appearance.

I'm not trying to offend anyone (I seem adept at that w/o trying). I just fail to see anything positive to be gained by perpetuating a belief that divides and alienates people.
-Kle.

@Klebert L. Hall: I'm sorry, but race is very real and is reflected in modern science. Groups of humans who split up into geographically isolated population groups developed and evolved independently of each other. Race is very real in the medical sciences where some races are more prone to certain diseases and where some diseases are the exclusive domain of particular ethnic groups.

Just because you do not like racist people does not make the reality of racial differences go away.

@Klebert L. Hall: The division of humans is a historical fact, not some recent social phenomena. It should say a lot that, until recently, the people we term as distinct races, generally lived apart.

'Race' identifies the general skin color of individuals. The color of one's skin does not dictate one's ideas. Man is not born with innate ideas. There are no ideas which a man must accept because his skin is white, or black, or red, or brown, or blue, or purple or green. There are no ideas a man must accept because others who share the same skin color accept those ideas (be they contemporary or historic). This means 'culture', 'tradition', 'history', 'religion', etc. are individual choices, not biological imperatives. To claim that certain ideas - whatever they might be - are black or white IS racist. To claim there is a 'black community' or a 'white community' IS racist. Such claims lump individuals together solely on the basis of skin color.

That is the very definition of racism.

To ask people to "deny" such crude biological collectivism is NOT 'offensive'. What is offensive is treating such racism as perfectly 'acceptable'.

@Klebert L. Hall: "How is that different from ethnic/cultural background? What makes something 'race'?"

Its a hiearchical category. People of several different ethnic groups can fit under a broad racial definition. Chinese and Vietnamese people are of the same race but of different ethnic groups. They are more closely related to each other than they are to Caucasians.

Culture is the set of traditions that are socially transmitted among groups of interacting people.

"The way I see it, people are all pretty dang similar - we can all have kids together, and if aliens landed tomorrow, I expect we'd 'all look alike to them'. There aren't even any two different populations of human that vary as much as Bassets do from Beagles - I would tend to think there aren't even 'breeds' of human, much less 'races'."

On what basis do you deny differences between human population groups but acknowledge the differences between breeds of animals? How do you reconcile the fact that blacks are generally better athletes and that Asians are generally better students?

"I would also say that people within a 'race' vary as much as they do from people of a different 'race'. Is a person from Trenton likely to have more in common with another resident of Trenton of a different 'race' or are they likely to have more in common with a person of the same 'race', from India?"

You are mixing up culture with race and ethnic identity. One can accurately describe what makes an Irish, English, Russian, Chinese, or even just a "White", "Black", and "Asian", and pick out the differences from people who are in geographical diaspora.

"Besides, isn't it sufficient to think "I'm interesting and unique because of my personality, and my achievements, and the way I treat others", instead of "I'm interesting and unique because I was born to descendants of ethno-cultural group A"."

That is your choice, but my interpretation of societies and civilizations of past is that groups who maintain and protect their general racial identities generally do better than ones that do not. The destruction of ethnically homogenous socities results in cultural chaos/conflict that degenerates the common cultural institutions and traditions.

If you notice, we're a society of individualists who organize around money, whereas in times past, socities were more about standing for some collective cultural aspirations.

"I'd rather be judged by my actions than my appearance."

This is where I will agree with you. Many racists will say "White=Good, Black=Evil" even though there are plenty of despicable whites and many talented blacks.

"'Race' identifies the general skin color of individuals"

Nope. Race is a genetic definition, not a phenological one.

"Man is not born with innate ideas."

But Man is born with a psyche controlled by his instincts. Do you deny that the geographic separation of humans that goes back as far as 50,000+ years ago and the different environmental pressures that different groups faced could have resulted in the selection of different psychological (as well as physical) traits? If so, why?

"There are no ideas which a man must accept because his skin is white, or black, or red, or brown, or blue, or purple or green."

If your skin is purple or green, you probably need to see a doctor :D

"This means 'culture', 'tradition', 'history', 'religion', etc. are individual choices, not biological imperatives. "

Actually, all of the things you mention were developed far apart from mere individuals but were developed by groups of people acting collectively. Race deniers are people who want to orgranize society on a individualistic cultural level which is in clear opposition to how societies, cultures, and cultural attributes are formed.

"To claim that certain ideas - whatever they might be - are black or white IS racist."

So you mean when black people, as a community, create their own cultural values that are distinct from whites or asians, thats racist and evil?

"To claim there is a 'black community' or a 'white community' IS racist. "

So you deny reality?

"Such claims lump individuals together solely on the basis of skin color."

You mean on the basis of common geographical ancestry.

"To ask people to "deny" such crude biological collectivism is NOT 'offensive'. What is offensive is treating such racism as perfectly 'acceptable'. "

Biological collectivism is crude. However, collectivism on the basis of traditions and cultural homgenity, is not.

I would be interested to know if the musical afro-futurism is another expression of the arts being one of the "legitimate" venues for black expression. When this started there was probably not a chance in hell that a black person was going to make the connection that a lot of white people did, that is, I'm an alien/god and I have a ring/hammer/ass of power and thus am Green Lantern, Thor or Superman. At least not publicly. Not with major start-a-franchise commercial backing. I'm not old enough to remember pre-civil rights America (I was born in the late '50s), but my memory is that blacks could be artists of pretty much any kind, sports figures (after that barrier was broken), religious figures (mostly within their own communities, of course) and things like craftsmen or soldiers. Power figures, not so much. Even black fighters had it tough in pre-civil rights America. I'm sure their grandfathers remembered how Jack Johnson was treated, and they still had Sonny Liston's (not to mention Ruben Carter's) stories there to see for themselves.

So you have to wonder if, while striving for expression and acceptance and, not coincidentally, money, they didn't take the avenues that were open to them. A musical superhero from a wonderful future would be a good melding of the longing for a better future and one of their "favored" forms of expression, whereas they probably wouldn't get far trying the whole black master of the universe thing.

Then you've got to wonder, which came first? Were blacks economically or culturally "encouraged" to channel their creativity more into music, and afro-futurism was one of the ways it expressed itself, or was there a need to express afro-futurism and it ended becoming popular through music because that was the venue open to popular expressions of such ideas? Or just the one that left persistent evidence (as opposed to underground comics that went through a couple dozen hands and didn't survive the author's teenage years)?

It would have been cool (by today's twisted cartoon standards) to have mixed the black rage idea with the black musical futurism and had kind of a black El Kabong bonking racists over the head with his guitar. Not to make light of the situation, but the image popped into my head and was irresistible. I've known a couple of black guys in my time who would have volunteered for the job with gusto.

First, thank you all for responding. I am so pleased, I am on the verge of Funkentelechy.

What's more, I think that the recent political discussions of race that we've all been hearing so much about are related to alienation (and the totally made-up anthropological term "otherness") in ways that pop culture has constructed since, well, forever. I don't think Obama can convincingly pull off a Mr. Wiggles-style platform, but Afrofuturism extends far beyond aliens and even technology. What really impressed me about his speech was that he used both the African-American experience and the vision of the future to conceive not just of what it means to be black, but of what it means to be American.

@RIP MRHANDS:
"How do you reconcile the fact that blacks are generally better athletes and that Asians are generally better students?"

Asians are better students because Confucian tradition put a lot of emphasis on education. Studies have shown that within three generations Asians don't do any better than other Americans. In Korea, where I've served three times, parents are lamenting the fact that their kids aren't the students they were. And they're not. The culture has changed on them.

As for this general thread, denying racism or the existence of racial differences is not a viable option unless you can get everybody to do it. If you can't, you're better off naming it, defining it and understanding it. Ignoring it just leaves the racists free to use a club you have blinded yourself to.

@RIP MRHANDS: Genetics and Phenology don't always go lock and step. My Step-dad is way darker then me and has "nappier" hair but when he volunteered for a genetic family tree project to track his ancestry and see what part of Africa he may have come from his genetic markers can back as Greek =) The same thing happened in two subsequent tests he agreed to.

I'm just glad IO9 mentions Black writers because the only author I've read is Walter Mosley. I've added about 12 books to my reading list thx to this site.

Futurist, no. Spouting the same old ideas but now that there is a black man with what is deemed a slightly 'reasonable' chance of being elected, people are listening to what he says, because, Hey! 'He's' a new kind'a thing, so what he's saying must be a new kind'a thing. lol.

People are sheep.

"Oh look, there someone who might be a shepherd, let's all follow him and see what he does."

Again I lol.

People will get along with each other when they want to. No one can talk someone out of the way they feel. You can intimidate them to listen while you have power over them, but don't lose that power or turn your back on them.

You can brainwash, uh, I mean educate people to behave in a different manner, but then what manner do you choose? If you choose a manner that is different than what that individual 'would' have normally been indoctrinated in, then you are the racist or bigot or intolerant. If you allow them to progress normally and have their own ideas, then you run the risk they won't think like you or even like you, but then you are tolerant, not bigoted, not racist.

There are a least 2 sides to every story. People will do what they want to do.

Blend or don't, just stop whining about what is basically your own choice.

Yes, I am 'caucasian' whatever that means. Under the One Drop Rule though I am Shawnee Indian (1/4th). I was born as under-privileged in this country as a person can be. Grew up in the mountains, been called Red-Neck, Hill Billy, Hick, White Trash, etc, and I got my first pair of shoes at 5 years old. My clothes came from Goodwill until I moved out of the house. But I didn't let that start condemn me.

You become what you are willing to try to be.

Sorry for the rant...

@Freebadeebadingdong: Dang, that is some backwoods philosophy you got going on. Please keep it in the backwoods, where evolution will eventually take care of it. To put it scientifically, you're a fucking idiot.

@RIP MRHANDS:

There is no evidence whatsoever that 'Asians' are 'naturally' better students, or that 'Blacks' are 'naturally' better athletes. There is also no evidence whatsoever of genetic determination of psychology.

People of certain ethnic backgrounds are subject to higher statistical probablilities of certain medical conditions, but that does not make them any special category of people.

It's funny that you think the Chinese and Vietnamese are one 'race', as I expect a Chinese person wouldn't agree. Many 'Caucasians' have lots of 'Asian' ancestors, too.

If there were ever large numbers of 'ethnically pure' people in the world (I doubt it), that time is over.

By using false terms like 'race', we make them real - the more we use them, the more real they get. I will not participate in such a travesty.

@1369ic:
"As for this general thread, denying racism or the existence of racial differences is not a viable option unless you can get everybody to do it."

That happens one person at a time.
-Kle.

Hmm...he seems like a politician to me.

Hold up, y'all. Let's talk about PERCEPTION of difference. Whether or not you want to argue what "race" actually consists of, the fact that people separate themselves as a direct result of it makes expressing it valid. That said, expression ideally results in compelling art or real social change, not name-calling.

"Race deniers" LOL

"...are people who want to orgranize society on a individualistic cultural level which is in clear opposition to how societies, cultures, and cultural attributes are formed."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will say I have NO desire to "organize society" in any way, shape, or form. I simply seek to let individuals freely choose their ideas and their actions - and to freely associate and interact based on those choices.

If you believe that particular ideas are necessarily accepted because of one's skin color, just say so. But do not get upset when people point out that is racism.

""To claim there is a 'black community' or a 'white community' IS racist. "

So you deny reality?"

I certainly deny what appears to be YOUR understanding of reality. There is no "community" - no set of ideas which people are 'organized' around - to which a person automatically belongs simply because of the color of his skin. There is no "community" (no culture, no set of traditions, etc) to which a person belongs simply because his skin is a particular color, or his eyes are a particular color, or his hair is a particular color, etc etc etc.

All men have a choice in the ideas they accept and reject. Their skin, their eyes, their hair, their toes, their teeth, their genes, and the rest of their physical makeup do not prevent them from accepting or rejecting ANY idea.

Put simply, I do not belong to a "community" of people simply because my skin is the same color as that of other individuals. And my friends do not belong to different "communities" of people simply because their skin color matches that of other individuals. We accept or reject our ideas based on our own individual rational judgments. If other people CHOOSE to forego such reasoning and accept or reject ideas on the basis of things OTHER than their own judgment - if they choose to accept ideas because of the color of the skin of those advancing and practicing those ideas - then that is their problem - and YES their racism.

One can try to justify the substitution mindless collectivism for individual reasoning all one wants. But such rationalizations won't change the racist nature of this substitution.

"Race deniers" LOL

Here is the revolution of the mind - choosing your identity based on reasoned thought and not by accident of birth.

Whoa, the conversation has gotten a little off track. I think we need some more wisdom from Funkadelic:

If you and your folks love me and my folks like
Me and my folks love you and your folks,
If there ever was folks
That ever ever was poor...

If you and your thing dig me and my thing
Like me and my thing dig you and your thing,
And we all got a thing,
Yeah, and it's a very good thing...

Ha! But if in our fears, we don't learn to trust each other,
And if in our tears, we don't learn to share with your brother,
You know that hate is gonna keep on multiplying...
And you know that man is gonna keep right on dying!

Obama wishes he were half as eloquent. Now, getting back on topic: do you think there are pictures of Barak sucking on a pacifier, wearing star-eyed sunglasses and a diaper made of tinfoil? If those surfaced, he'd finally earn my vote.

@Tim Faulkner: May the funk be with you, sir. (For more brotherly love, I highly recommend Bootsy's Christmas album.) I kind of need that photo of Barack to exist.

And for the record, guys, I'm only researching people who explicitly associate aliens and their self-conceptions (which, yes, includes physical appearance) within their own music or writings. If that's not individual choice, I don't know what is.

@Charlie Jane Anders: Richard Lupoff, Sam Delany, (all his characters are carefully no-color), in a negitive way Heilein's "Farnhams Freehold" Steve Barnes, lots more, though usually they sluff it off. SF is not a confrontational media. I am waiting for Jack Vance's and Larry Niven's skin color treatments.

@Chris Meredith: That is one of the more sensible things i ever read on the subject. Have you read Keith Richburg's "Out OF America?" (not SF, reporting) As for drugs, i dunno.. As one of the old hippies, there were Black Hippies, more Black Beats, but hard to make a solid comment.. Both the Beats and the earlie hippies AKA "The Freaks" were such a collection of misfits, that any rules were suspect.

These were different from the "Hypes" and the "Teenie Boppers" that were when the gestalts became more mainstream.

But i agree, i live in the south, in a very mixed neighborhood, and the gangbangers and the dookie drawer guys come in all shades.

@theysaidwhat: There is skin color, and there are cultures. the two values interpenetrate, creating a vast mosaic. In my neighborhood, there are also Hispanics, who range in skin color, being decendants of three major ethnic groups. And they, are not as uniform as might be thought. The Cubans and the Mexicans, as i happen to know, do not really understand each other's version of Spanish, senses of humor, music, or foods.

Kind of funny to an outsider. But don't get in the middle.

@1369ic: Probably the three most respected African Americans of the last century were Louis Armstrong, Joe Louis, and Martin Luther King Jr. If you want to trade Jackie Robinson for Joe Louis, fine.

They all had to make places for themselves, on their own merit. But they also were, and had to be accepted by whites, without groveling. Remarkable people.

I have just finished a 140,000 word MS on the "Black/white interface in American Music," and i wish to state, after my research, that most of what everybody "knows" about American music is wrong. Both the pop version of history, and the Marxist academic ethnomusicology versions have serious holes.

@Freebadeebadingdong: Rant on, it's good for the soul

@Dolly-At-School: Which takes us back to "race" being cultural, ja? Can you see the African American culture splitting into separate cultures where you live? Sure can see it around here.

That's Winston Salem NC, a place with a strong Black Middle class for a long time. You could look it up.

@Tim Faulkner: I-I-I am everyday people. I see your Funkadleic, and i raise you a Sly and the Family Stone.. "There is a white one that can't accept a Black one..."

Or, "Don't call me whitey..."

@codydog: That's definitely a real trend, and not one that's limited by geography. I'm not trying to classify race, though, nor am I attempting to imply that there is any one way to do things if one's skin is a certain color. I'm trying to make sense of cultural expressions that explicitly treat the notion of race using specific motifs.

Your manuscript sounds really interesting. Are you working with a specific time period, or doing more of an overview?

@Dolly-At-School: Me too, for you first point..You get to choose, at least in a modern society. Or you can even create a new culture, if you can grab the zeitgeist...

I'm not quite sure how you would express the

"I'm trying to make sense of cultural expressions that explicitly treat the notion of race using specific motifs."

Is this a project in a media, or a life quest or...you could tell me more, svp. There is an email or website in my profile, i think

As for my book, i cover from the Colonial Period to the Birth of Rock and Roll.

That is quite enough, for even the sketchiest survey.. And research is worse than salted peanuts.. You can't ever stop.

Obama scares me, honestly. Here's why: He is an excellent speaker, but his speeches are either flowery with little actual substance or have veiled comments. People have swooned at his speeches.

Charismatic speakers who have no true moral character of worth have led many nations throughout history down a grim path.

Yes, I know...I just put a big target on my back.

@codydog: I know what you mean about research. I don't know how to get much more specific, though, other than my original message (see main post). Basically, I'm writing a term paper on African-American musicians who adopt outer space personas and juxtapose them with statements about racial tension. In particular, I am exploring why extraterrestrial imagery might provide an outlet for that sort of thing.

Ok, i just didn't look back. Sorry

I don't want to speak for African Americans, but the first thought is that they feel alien, or as aliens, strangers in a strange land.

Are you using Hendrix? He used lots of SF imagery.. And James Blood Ulmer (from Clarkesdale MS) and Sun R