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In this morning's spoiler-fest, we have the first look at James Marsters' insane costume in Dragonball. And the scene from Batman: The Dark Knight that's so disturbing, it may get cut out of the movie's final version. We tear into some new rumors about X-Files 2, and reveal the plot of the new Ben 10 series. There are also tons of hints about upcoming landmark episodes of Smallville, Lost, Doctor Who, and Heroes. Spoilers, and the occasional daffy rumor, below the fold.
The Dark Knight:
At one point in the new Batman movie, the Joker gets up in Christian Bale's face and quotes that Brokeback Mountain line about "You complete me," but in a really stalkery, unnerving way. (I thought that was a line from Jerry Maguire?) Also, there's a scene where the Joker gets inside a body bag and pretends to be dead, which freaked out everyone in the audience of an early preview screening — and it may have to be edited out. The movie's soundtrack includes a Jaws-esque tension-inducing heartbeat sound. Eric Roberts plays an icky mobster. Everyone in the movie, not just Harvey/Two-Face, has some kind of duality. [Batman on Film]
X-Files 2:
UGO has one of its spoiler roundups about X-Files 2, and doesn't really add much new information. Except supposedly the movie starts with scrolling introductory text, like Star Wars, to bring new viewers up to speed. And it does reference old episodes of the show. And Mitch Pileggi may be back as Skinner. And Mulder and Scully may encounter creatures they first met on the TV show. [UGO]
Dragonball:
James Masters, who plays Piccolo in Dragonball, will have the silliest fake latex muscles you've ever seen. At least, they look pretty stunning in this picture from make-up artist Edward French's home page. French won't reveal the prosthetic makeup he spent four hours applying to Marsters, but he did show off everything below the neck. [Edward French, via I Watch Stuff]
Heroes:
Season three of Heroes will introduce two new characters, because the show isn't overcrowded enough already: Joy, who's in her early twenties and good at getting herself into, and out of, trouble. And Senator Robert Malden, a "political straight shooter" in his fifties. [TV Guide]
Doctor Who:
Towards the end of Doctor Who season four, rumor has it we'll hear more references to the Medusa Cascade, which the Master mentioned at the end of season three. Also, still more rumors that Davros is showing up. And the final episode is supposedly extra long, which means it'll be extra-butchered for American viewers.
And the new Doctor Who Magazine includes key quotes from some upcoming episodes. In the Pompeii episode, the Doctor tells Donna, "Some things are fixed, some things are in flux, and Pompeii is fixed...That's how I see the universe. All the time, every waking second: what is, what was, what could be, what must not. That's the burden of a Time Lord, Donna."
In the Ood episode, the Doctor says, "The Ood aren't born like this, can't be - a species born to serve could never evolve in the first place. What does the company do, to make them obey?"
In the Sontaran two-parter, the Doctor says, "Whatever you do, Colonel Mace, do not engage the Sontarans in battle. There's nothing they like better than war! Leave this to me..." [Doctor Who Forum]
Smallville:
The 150th Smallville episode, airing May 1, will resolve the Clark/Brainiac story once and for all. That's the episode where Clark visits a world where he never crash-landed on Earth. (Think the Buffy storyline where Buffy never came to Sunnydale.) And in the alternate reality, Chloe is engaged to be married, while Alt-Lex will have a fancy job with an even fancier office. [Ask Ausiello]
Lost:
That "spectacular kiss" in the Lost season finale happens between a boy and a girl, and it doesn't take place on the island [E! Online]
The season finale involves a "big scene" involving the rescue of the Oceanic Six from the island, soon to be filmed. But the freighter crew aren't the ones who rescue the Six, and the cliffhanger will "leave you ballistic." Also, in the last five episodes of the season, we learn a lot more about Kate's love-life, both in the present and in flash-forwards. [Spoilers Lost]
Ben 10
The new Ben 10 series, Ben 10: Alien Force, takes place five years after the original series, with a more mature Ben. Ben goes to visit his grandfather, but aliens attack and his grandpa goes missing. So Ben teams up with Gwen, plus Max's old partner, an alien plumber, and they bust a weapons deal that turns out to be the work of Kevin Eleven, now back in human form. Despite being pissed about his deal going south, Kevin agrees to help Ben's team, and they use a "spiffy piece of alien tech" to infiltrate an alien base. The mission is mostly successful, but they the plumber dies, and they still need to find and rescue Grandpa Max. Meanwhile, Ben's watch has transformed and gives him access to a whole new set of aliens. The show launches April 18 on Cartoon Network. [Toonzone]
Comments
See, Ben Ten...huh. That sounds like a pretty sophisticated cartoon there.
It's like...and I'm kind of really, really embarrassed to say this...but there was a cartoon show of Mighty Max for about a season. And it should have been completely retarded, yet somehow wasn't.
I like that "in flux" quote from Doctor Who. Can't wait to see the episode.
I think editing out the body bag scene from "The Dark Knight" would not only be lame, but disrespectful to Heath Ledger. He wouldn't have shot the scene if he didn't want to make daring choices as an actor, and be remembered for being edgy and intense. Of course, he never thought he'd be "remembered" so soon, but the point still stands. He did it because he thought it would be cool and make his Joker indelible, and I think they should leave it.
@SeeingI: It would not be lame; it would be an editorial choice. Things that happen outside of the context of a film can have a jarring impact on how the film's content is perceived. You don't want something in a film that takes the audience out of the film's reality, and this scene *is* doing that, apparently. Therefore, the filmmakers would be removing it in order to prevent that from happening. Scenes that don't work the way they were intended to work when filmed are cut from final edits *all* the time.
I may explode with excitement before X-Files comes out.
I don't get it. He gets in a body bag and pretends to be dead. I realize the guy is now actually dead, but I just don't see what the big deal is.
@JennaW: Well, it could be lame. There are a lot of reasons that scenes get cut, and there are a lot of demands placed on the people doing the cutting, and test audiences aren't always great tests.
I'm not saying that either of you are wrong, just that it's equally likely that the scene will be cut for lame reasons as it would be for artistic reasons.
@braak: I've seen several episodes of Ben 10 and it sounds a lot more sophisticated than it is. It's basically Pokemon with Ben being both Ash and a Pokeball: it's a series of creature battles glued together with the weakest of exposition and dialogue.
Sigh--the things I endure to bond with the kids.
"You complete me" is Jerry McGuire, and more apropos for the Joker/Batman relationship. "I wish I could quit you" is Brokeback.
@foolish-rain:
I... I have a confession. I watch it willingly. I know the plots are oversimplified and the writing is at best standard kid fair, but the art is really quite good...
I'm going to go hide now.
@foolish-rain: there's always powerpuff girls and fosters
WTF is a Medusa Cascade?
Ooh if the finale's extra long, I hope it'll be 90 min, like a movie.
It would be really interesting if there was a Brokeback Mountain throwback in The Dark Knight. There's a long and twisted history of references to Joker possibly being gay or bisexual in the comics although I don't believe it's ever spelled out definitively. Rumor has it that Grant Morrison was asked to edit some sexuality out of his graphic novel Arkham Asylum because it was being published around the same time the Michael Keaton Batman movie was coming out.
@braak: That's fine, but if the majority of an audience is yanked out of a film's reality by the leaving-in of a scene that reminds them too strongly of a real-life incident which has nothing to do with the plot, character, etc., then it should be removed.
A scene that is cool in and of itself is not cool if it ruins the film experience for the majority of the filmgoers. It sounds as if this scene -- as cool as it may be -- would do that.
And this incident has nothing to do with preview audiences being right or wrong -- this isn't a happying-up the ending situation -- a visceral reaction is a visceral reaction. Films seek to control, guide, and finesse the audience.
If they can sort out a way to use that reaction without undermining the film they're trying to make, then more power to them.
@Belabras: Hi. I'm Steven522 and I watch cartoons. At first, my excuse was "Hey, I'm young and single, why not." And then my excuse was, "I watch them with my kid." And now that my child is reaching the age where she likes live action shows like Hannah Montana and Suite Life, it gets more difficult to sneak in viewings of Fosters, Phineas and Ferb, and Valley of the Dinosaurs.
I realize now that I have a problem, and my family is helping me through it by giving me a 30 minute once-a-week support session on Saturday mornings while Spectacular Spider-Man is on.
Thank you.
Sadly, if X-files 2 consisted of Mulder and Scully sitting around a room, discussing politics, I would probably still be happy.
Is anyone actually interested in Kate's love life on Lost?
@andrew60647: Come to think of it, I really want the Joker to tell Batman he wishes he could quit him. That would be awesome.
@Gospel X: Yes, because why have a good movie with strong internal logic when we could just have a series of cool scenes and in-jokes? ;)
@tetracycloide: Oooh Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. Now there's a great show!
God, people are way to sensitive. So hes a in body bag. Oh noes! It's making think about death. Hes dead. Deal with it peoeple. If it has a place in the movie it should be left in.
@foolish-rain: Im going to have to see your Fosters and raise you The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy. Now thats a warped show. Ill add that in the line of shows for children but not really which include, but not limited too: Courage the Cowardly Dog and Invader Zim.
@JennaW: My point is that the test audience isn't necessarily representative.
Also, that the need to remove the scene because it's "too soon" after a tragedy is itself already an abbrogation of the art for the sake of the industry which, by some people's standards, is lame.
The scene should stay in. It would be lame to remove it because of the perceived reactions from test audiences. This variation of political correctness is partially one of the biggest problems we have with Hollywood these days (and our larger culture, in general): giving in to the threat of trespassing against everyone's delicate sensibilities.
Yes, there's something to be said about not being removed from the "reality" of the film. But hey, guess what? Heath Ledger is in this movie, but he died before its release. Some people are going to think about that during the movie. Imagine!
If the character he's playing is shown in a body bag, some people aren't going to even think about it, others will for sure and when they do, life will go on, the movie will make a bazillion dollars. The idea that a movie is ruined if you think about an actor as a person and not the character is patently absurd. If this was true, there would be no celebrity actors. Every role would need to be played by an actor we'd never seen before. Obviosuly, the inverse of this is the case - we thrive on celebrity.
People need to stop worrying so much about how badly everything is hurting everybody's mental health. We're all gonna be OK.
I have to admit that while I loved most of season one of "Heroes" they really started to lose me after that crappy finale. Season two was just insult upon injury.
I guess it's possible that the writer's strike MIGHT have had something to do with the utter crap they gave us in season two.
Maybe season three will be better.
And maybe it will take suckage to an epic level. *sigh*
@andrew60647: "You complete me" is also from Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me. Which guarantees that I'll crack up if the line appears, no matter what the filmmakers want from the scene.
@braak: Mighty Max! Now that was an awesome and underappreciated cartoon. IO9 should do an article on how seriously warped it was for a cartoon based on a line of children's toys. The amount of implied violence and horror was staggering.
I remember one episode that begin with a couple of lumberjacks getting chainsawed to death by an ancient norse demon off-camera. I also remember another episode where some unlucky people were fed to a fire-breating statue by a bunch of druids, and an episode that featured a ring which possessed a person's hand an compelled them to stick it in a certain alter where the possessed hand was chopped off so it could join an entire army of possessed hands.
Plus it had Richard Moll!
@braak: Film is a collaborative medium where the creators make calls like this all the time for all kinds of reasons.
I bet they've left out all kinds of cool scenes already that Heath sweated over and poured his heart into -- for pacing, tone, and running-time reasons... THE BASTARDS!
But, sure. Everyone get all up in arms about their decision (whatever it may be) as if we know what they're thinking. What do the people who actually knew Heath Ledger and who observed the test audiences and who made the superlative first film know, anyway? We're a bunch of people reading about it third hand on a blog -- how can they be SO LAME?
This is a very silly conversation. I'm going to delete this whole scene from my life's final cut.
@GodofMonkeys: No, they can't even use the writers' strike as an excuse. Remember "Volume 2" was going to be the first half of season two regardless and then Volume 3 would start in the second half of Season 2. So Volume 2 (which became, in effect, Season 2) was written and produced prior to the strike and sucked so bodaciously hard on its own, without any assistance from the strike.
@Gospel X: >Come to think of it, I really want the Joker to tell Batman he wishes he could quit him. That would be awesome.
That totally reminds me of the panel in Dark Knight Returns where Joker is at the county fair, and he sees Batman coming for him and whispers to himself, "Oh, darling."
@JennaW: I think there's not a reason to flip out about this. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just pointing out that, yes, while some scenes are deleted for good reasons, some scenes are deleted for bad reasons. I think "all kinds of reasons" is the key phrase here.
And what are you talking about "up in arms"? Commenting on the internet is the exact opposite of being up in arms.
Cow and Chicken.
Man, that was one warped series. I'm still scarred.
@braak: I was kidding around before (please note "silly conversation" and overdramatic "THE BASTARDS"), but now I'm kind of pissed off.
Do not tell me I'm flipping out. You started taking the devil's advocate stance on this with me -- is that *you* flipping out? I wouldn't have said so. I thought that you were stating your case, and I was stating mine.
Also, you were not the person to whom I initially addressed the remark, and in my more general statements, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking in general about the fannish tendency to overreact to nothing in advance of any actual context.
But game over. Anytime someone decides to play the "semantic break-down" card, the fun is just *sucked* right out of the whole exercise. 'Cause you know what? It IS what I said not how I said it, and talking about how things are said is the #1 biggest waste of time on the internet.
@JennaW:
Your way of thinking.
I'm against it.
A creators work shouldn't be undone or redone because of how someone may perceive it.
A film is a self-enclosed entity. Whatever someone brings to it, or takes from it is their own issue.
If the scene sucks, that's a whole other matter.
@JennaW: Hm. Well, sorry to have ruined your fun. I genuinely misunderstood your intentions.
@JennaW: I dunno, dude. In all fairness, the exchange seemed pretty low-key until you said it was silly. I'll grant that "flip out" might be a little strong, but I don't think she meant you were literally throwing a tantrum, and your comments were reading to me as slightly more vehement than braak's. Not that there's anything wrong with that -- I'm just pointing out that the misreading of tone can go both ways.
Of course, I might be misreading everything myself.
Yep, just blew my own mind.
@JennaW: Moreover, I always tread lightly around close personal friends of Mr. T.
@moff: What are you saying, exactly? Are you saying that I'm not vehement enough? God, can't you just relax for a god-damn MINUTE?
@JennaW: The problem is the scene is crucial (if it's coming from the sequence I think it is).
@moff: @JennaW: Also, for the record, "flip out" as a personal idiosyncratic use that you had no way of knowing about--I and my friends usually use it to refer to non-serious arguments, and, often, to people who are clearly not flipping out.
I do want to say that I specifically did not mean that I thought you were going to stab somebody, or something.
@Plague: Yeah... that's not actually how creating works. Writing, painting, film-making -- not some unbroken line from vision to final work. Lots of editing, course-changing, etc., done in the interim. The final result has a lot of contributing factors even with a novel which is a single-creator work.
Your idealism.
It's cute.
A film is a self-enclosed entity. Whatever someone brings to it, or takes from it is their own issue.
And that is bullshit. If this were true, this blog would vanish. Where would io9 be without fan hatred of many, many things in advance based on how those things don't seem to fit what fans think they should be?
Now -- should people try not to bring their preconceived notions into the theater? YES! Is that reality? NO! If I want my *collaborative* project to succeed on its content and not some hyped-up controversy, do I take that into consideration? Yes.
Also, if you have ever *in your life* uttered the phrase, "It didn't live up to the hype," then you should probably post a retraction of your above post. ;)
@braak: ARE YOU SAYING I'M NOT CAPABLE OF STABBING A BITCH?!
Oh, yeah... it's *on.*
@braak: Not bad, but I'm still not putting you on the next season of Veheming With the Stars.
Here's what I find myself wondering: What if, as originally shot, the Joker died in the movie? In fact, what if he died of a drug overdose? How would that have been handled?
@Tim Faulkner: I see what you did there... I see how you're being all flaunty with your advance knowledge 'n' shit.
@Ed Grabianowski: MY MIND CAN'T TAKE THIS.
@JennaW: @moff: That's it! I'm stabbing everybody!
EXPLOOOOOOSION!
(also, I am apparently exploding)
@pink_clerical_collar: This is all your fault.
@JennaW:
Yeah, a lot of people make a movie. Who wudda thunk it!
Doesn't matter. What the end result is still formed by one or a few folk's' "vision", made by committee or not.
Do you blame the entire crew for a movie like "House Of The Dead"? No, you blame Uwe Boll.
Have I ever uttered that phrase? Sure as hell I have. But then again, I'm also guilty of what I just said- I brought something TO the film before watching it. Which is again my own fault. NOT the filmmakers.
I personally thank whatever I believe that there are plenty of filmmakers throughout history and now that have the strength of purpose to make what they want without considering what a fictional "test audience" might think of it. Sure, they majority aren't blockbusters and aren't made by big studios, but some are.
Your condescension.
Not cute.
@Plague:
The assumption behind most of the comments on this subject seems to be that this scene *gestures toward pedestal* is the Bestest Scene EVAR! and if the filmmakers choose to delete it now, they are SELLOUTS!
Why is this the thesis? Maybe they've been on the fence about using it and the audience reaction confirmed their own uncertainty? Or maybe now they'll be galvanized to keep it because, YES! that kind of near-disgust is just what they were going for.
We've made up this entire story about this one scene in our collective heads and are now standing on various bits of ground fighting for our stances. This is why the conversation is silly.
Your condescension.
Not cute.
Oh, yes it is! It's fucking ADORABLE.
@JennaW:
I stated in my first comment that if the scene was removed because it stank, then that was a different issue.
If they remove it JUST because it might affect some audience members, then yes, that is a "sell out".
And the adorableness of your condescension depends entirely on what you are wearing.