And we're all on the "do not fly list" now, it's cool I wasn't planning any vacations for a while anyway.

Also, the Dune prequels? nononono, awful.

look they're replaying earlier footage!

So the 9/11 has led to more sympathy towards Islam. Interesting.

I've already warned one person today: Do not read any Dune books unless they are by Frank Herbert. His son is a pretender to the throne. Accelerando is --more-- sympathetic? How do you figure?

One of the more important ideas that I came away with from "Dune" was that Herbert saw Islam as being an important influence in Human affairs 10,000 years into our future, beyond the point were even the Earth itself is a forgotten legend.

I do not believe the Dune books are primarily meant as an allegory about the middle east, nor do i think that Fremen=Arab/Islam by any stretch of the imagination. But I think with his books, Frank Herbert honors Islam, Sufism, and related cultures. I know i've personally been inspired to learn more about Islam, Sufism, and the arab world as a result of my affinity with the Dune series.

I'm asking here, but to what extent did Frank Herbert actually say he was using Islam as a basis for Dune? I'm not saying he didn't, just wondering how much of this was added after the fact, ala George Lucas and Joseph Campbell?

Could someone please explain why the legends of Dune books are so hated? I've read them all, including Franks original 6, and I just don't get all the negativity surrounding those books.

@Epaminondas: There's a fair amount of vocabulary that overlaps ("Mahdi," for instance). Whether or not it was meant as a direct allegory, it's pretty hard to deny the relationships.

@russdanger: A western-style empire goes to war with the natives of a desert planet, fighting for control over the only known source of a substance vital to maintaining civilization.

Yep, no Middle-Eastern allegory there!

@Gann:

As I understand it, Islam forbids the killing of innocent civilians in war.
The people behind the attack bent their interpetation of the Koran to fit their agenda and justify their crime.
The overwhelming majority of Muslims throughout the world vociferously condemned the attacks, and voiced their sympathy for it's victims.
I see no reason not to sympathize with them.

@Gann: Well, this actually makes a lot of sense.

Sci-Fi writers are sometimes very intelligent, and often very contrarian. Naturally, when there's a cultural movement to lump all Muslims together into the "Evil Terrorist Category," you're going to get a lot of writers that step up and say, "Hey, there are nuances here that need to be explored."

@Epaminondas: the term Mahdi is the name of a prophesied redeemer of Islam, but I think Herbert meant for the fremen to resemble the Bedouin tribes. He borrowed more from the culture of the middle east than the religion, but the two are so intertwined that it's nearly impossible to have one without the other.
In terms of direct quotes, I'm not sure. I wouldn't recommend Brian's biography of his father, it was pretty negative and had more to do with Brian's childhood then Herbert's writing. I'm sure there's somthing out there.
And I'm kind of disappointed in myself that I can't give a better answer, Dune is one of my favorite books.

@A-Bettik:

Kevin J. Anderson.

He writes using magnetic poetry, only instead of random words, they're cliches.

@A-Bettik:They are not good. For some reason BH thinks the readers are idiots and need everything reexplained to them every other page. Where Frank Herbert would skip giant space battles to get to story and character development BH books read more like a Michael Bay movie.

Interesting comments on Islam post 9/11. I was reading the Butlerian Jihad on an airplane and thought people would hassle me about it. Surprisingly no comment.

@katieb: I read somewhere that the water on Arrakis was an allegory for oil.

Frank Herbert has many, many phenomenal quotes in the Dune books about religion and spirituality, which do much to explain his motivations. This one (from Children of Dune) gives me near-orgasmic joy, everytime i read it.

"Religion is the emulation of the adult by the child. Religion is the encystment of past beliefs: mythology, which is guesswork, the hidden assumptions of trust in the universe, those pronouncements which men have made in search of political power, all of it mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always the ultimate unspoken commandment is "Thou shalt not question!" But we question. We break that commandment as a matter of course. The work to which we have set ourselves is the liberating of the imagination, the harnessing of imagination to humankind's deepest sense of creativity."

@Asari: That quote is a great illustration of why I shun the prequels. I read one and it was so lacking anything approaching what you just quoted that I've stayed away since then.

That was a great list, thanks for the link. I especially appreciate the article at the bottom of the pageon Muslim SF writers. It doesn't look like many of them have been translated but it would be worth the hunt. I would very much like to read what our Islamic/Geek siblings are writing about.
Ma'Saalam! [sp]

Hm, there's Horace Bury in The Mote in God's Eye, although maybe he's more of a coffee worshipper...

shai hulud...respect.

@chigaze:

Definately agreed. In my opinion Frank Herbert is one of the greatest visionary thinkers that's ever walked this earth. Though i know he was inspired by many great ones before him.

@robbie158: Brian Herbert's books read like bad first drafts of an outline for Dune. I think if the hack son can write a Dune book, good writers should have the chance also. It's another example of bad copyright law.

And don't forget the late George Alec Effinger's "Budayeen" novels - beginning with When Gravity Fails. Excellent stuff!

@robbie158: I thought the spice was the allegory for oil -- the rest of the universe is addicted to it, and this planet/area that would otherwise be left alone (which is what it's people want) is of vital importance.

Uhg...If Frank Herbert was alive today he would slap Brian's mama.