Love that Sinistar is up there in the pic with Jesus.

That invincible bastard. Sinistar, that is.

catholicism is really striving to make scientology look rational and mainstream. the only thing crazier than a glactic conspiracy to make human beings unhappy purpetrated by aliens is a local conspiracy to execute the son of god actually having any sort of application beyond the planet it took place on.

Lotsa classic SF dealing with this sort of thing.

and of course there's Christopher Stasheff's stuff that's become Catho-SF as he went on.

Personally, I wish I could remember the title of the short story where a priest trying to survive an alien invasion sees that the aliens have an ark of the covenant and God has chosen them over us, breaking the covenant he originally made. The ideas in that story were kinda nifty. Although the idea of a fickle jealous god might upset anyone who hasn't read their old testament closely.

Whoa. I almost made it a whole paragraph without a joke.

According to Mark Twain (via Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven) there's at least one intelligent alien species, and it does get to go to heaven. They're blue, have one leg and seven heads.

The full story is available at the Gutenberg Project.

@s0crates82: I HUNGER...
for little round crackers and grape juice.

I don't see why it would be such a stretch for Christians to believe in life on other planets. If you are going to make the argument that there is a God that created everything, and that it created life on Earth, then isn't the inevitable conclusion to the argument be that it created life elsewhere?

Why would the Canadian Broadcast Company send missionaries into space? The Congressional Black Caucus? Or do you mean the Central Baptist College and/or the Central Bible College which aren't Catholic?

There is actually a vein of Christianity that thinks claiming there is life outside our planet is blasphemy. Yeah, I know it sounds silly. Most likely there was a discussion about life in the universe at the Vatican, and it came from there. I doubt there was any "Papal Decree", but a priest simply said, "Yeah, it's okay. Why wouldn't God make life on other planets?"

The big problem that a lot of unreasonable religious people have a problem with humanity not being an only child. It all boils down to their superiority complex.

Oh, and before the snarky "unreasonable religious people" comments start, yes it is possible to be a scientific and rational person and still be religious, you just have to accept the nutty stuff as metaphor and not literal.

Everyone knows that since aliens know "the truth", the worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, His Noodly Appendages be praised.

But what does the Space Pope say? Is it OK to believe in Humans yet?

... who cares? Honestly? Does anyone really take the church seriously any more? I lost my faith a while ago, but it always amazes me how some guy and just come along and change scripture. "Hmm... I know it' sbeen around for sorta a long time, but how about I get rid of limbo! Yeah, I know. It was there... it just isn't any more. Not that we were wrong back when we said it did exist, it did, just from now on it won't anymore..." Yeah that kind of stuff just gets on my nerves. w/e, his noodly appendages be praised.

@Git Em SteveDave: FSM bleeds marinara for our sins.

@shehanum: Well, it seems simple, but as Jonathan points out, there can be a certain level of proprietariness that comes into it, and while the Bible doesn't deal with the notion of alien life, it's easy to read the tone as saying that Earth and its life-forms are unique in the scheme of things -- in Genesis, the only place life is created is on Earth, and humans are said to be made in God's image.

But obviously, as Jonathan also mentions, if you're reading Genesis particularly literally, you're maybe not the greatest critical thinker ever.

Awesome pic! Go Jesus against the Alien!

On a not-joke, I remember from some catholic theology class a theory that essentially said that, yes, there were probably aliens in our universe, BUT, they were coming to earth looking for salvation. (basically sayin Jesus is unique to earth, its not like each planet has its own Jesus) Weird huh? Or perhaps we will merge the Holy Catholic Church with the Scientologiest and this is just some prep-work. Time to start believing in the Wormhole Prophets people. The Sisko has never let us down.

Of course god loves aliens! God just adores all those, straight, monoganous, non-genetic manipulating, catholic, green-skinned little buggers.
...Wait. You guys breed how? Hmmmm. I see...asexually. Ah, sorry. No, you're the work of Satan. No god-love for you.

I think this is smart of the Pope. Where else will the church find new priests and congregation members than in outer space?

Copernican astronomy really screwed that whole center-of-the-universe thing. Still, the aliens have to join the Jews and unbaptized children in Limbo.

@Git Em SteveDave: Ramen.

@-emory-: Since Scripture doesn't say anything about aliens, it's not being changed at all here. The idea is just that since the Pope acts as an intermediary between God and the members of the Catholic church, the Vatican discusses pertinent matters and then issues rulings on them. It's not so different, I would imagine, from the debates that eventually became the Jewish Gemara.

And also not so different from, um, science, in that it's just a reassessment of previous ideas based on new thinking and knowledge. Obviously, the content is very different and yeah, it can get pretty silly-sounding at times, but every institution either makes some changes once in a while or dies.

As for who cares about the church, I imagine you're in the First World, where more people ought to, since we're dealing with the Third more and more every day and it's a force to be reckoned with out there.

You should have linked the proper South Park episode concerning Aliens and Catholics...

+ Watch video

CS Lewis's main series (Narnia and the Space trilogy) are basically his answers to the question of "if there were another world, and Jesus did his thang there too, what would that be like?"

Personally I feel a bit gypped that we didn't get the cuddly lion god here, but whatev.

@Lizzie24601: He is cuddly, but he is NOT A TAME LION.

@moff: "I imagine you're in the First World, where more people ought to, since we're dealing with the Third more and more every day and it's a force to be reckoned with out there."

With what you say here, you actually make sort of an argument for these decrees. The Roman Catholic Church is very powerful in developing countries where science is often trumped by superstition. The Catholic Church, ironically, can be people's one outlet for rational, scientific thought. You theoretically have people who deny certain science because they can't find justification for it in the Bible. So when the Pope says, "Yes, aliens are possible," it sort of helps the people in these areas. Yeah, it is nuts that it could work that way, but it is very probable that the only way someone is aware that science is valid is the church. Now if the church would just come around on things like birth control.

All things considered, and thats not saying much. The Pope backing Aliens could be a good thing. Think about it, the Catholics have how big of a budget to work with? Compare that to say... NASA? Ya, I can totally see Christian men living on the moon by 2020. Or Mars, whichever they way to reform - err I mean colonize - first.

I don't have an issue with Catholics, and most Christians, accepting aliens. Heck, the Church accepts heretics these days, and don't even get me started on the Church of England.

My guess? If we ever meet aliens, the only religious trouble they'll have is with Sharia.

C.S. Lewis did some great Christo-Scifi stuff in the 40's and 50's. check out The Space Trilogy ( Out of the Silent Planet - Perelandra - and That Hideous Strength ) good reading really

@GodzillaDad: But you know as soon as they colonize it, there will be a knock on the door, and a Jehovah's Witness trying to give him a copy of "The Watchtower".

God whipped up the universe in six days, that's six thousand years in human terms. Everything was created pretty much the way we see it now. He told the people to subdue the planet. We are about done with that. When we are done here we might get to go out to other planets. Asimov points out in the Foundation books that after twenty thousand years the human race spreads throughout the galaxy but never finds and alien race. I don't see anything irrational in the idea that He made us first and we are meant to go out into the universe, be fruitful and multiply. Just think of how fast humans could develop another Earth like planet. It took us less than six thousand years to develop this one and we started out with no technology. Imagine what we could do by the time we develop interstellar travel. Trantor here we come.

This discussion always cracks me up. I was taught science, biology, astronomy, genetics (even evolution), by Catholic nuns, brothers and priests. Gregor Mendel was a priest for crying out loud. The Catholic church is obviously just as fallible as the rest of us, but they've learned a lot since Galileo.

@CMG: How dare you!! The FSM bleeds a delicious alfredo sauce for our sins!! Marinara and meatballs are for those who would speak ill of the FSM, and I quote from the book of "101 Tuscan meals in under 20 minutes"

"Lo be unto those who would mock the FSM, with salsa, soy, or ranch dressing, for he will smite them in an angrey rain of red sauce and ground meat-based products, and the people heard this and fell to their knee's and prayed, and were rewarded with white sauce and fresh wheat pasta and pomegranates, and orangutans..."

Clearly the red sauce mentioned here is marinara! Or are you one of those "reformed" FSM types?

ITALIAN RECIPES ARE MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALY, NO SUBSTITUTIONS!!!

@Gambeson: Hear, hear. And guess who proposed the Big Bang theory?

@JonathanBreese: That's a great point.

well...

a bit slow arent I ?

@reddingofish:

There was a short story involving Trantor and an Alien Race.

[en.wikipedia.org]

If the aliens tasted not of the Fruit of the Tree, then with no Original Sin they would not have needed to be saved by the Son. So if they showed up here, they wouldn't need the Church.

If you believe in god, little green space men aren't that far fetched.

So who gets to be Space Pope?

Oh man, I'm so happy the vatican still tells me what to think. Where in the world would I just be without them?

Oh yeah, at peace.

@Lizzie24601: JESUS CHRIST IS A LION, GET IN THE CAR!

@AlfaCharger: I didn't read that short story. There are so many Foundation and Galactic Empire books and short stories it is hard to find them all. I just remember R. Daneel Olivaw standng on the Moon with some animals and the kid from Solaris planing to take the human race to another level of evolution since no other races were ever encountered.
I didn't know that Brin wrote another Foundation Book. I guess I will read it just so I can say I have read all the books.

@Gambeson: Word!

On a side note, I remember a pretty amazing moment in 8th grade religion class, when Sister Rosemary told a student "You realize Genesis isn't literally true, right? It's a myth, a metaphor." The sound of adolescent minds being blown was deafening. We hated most of the nuns, but Rosemary was alright by me.

It's times like this that really makes me love being Catholic. :)

That photoshop job is awesome! Had me cracking up!

@-emory-: Roll up your windows, and don't feed him!

No, no, no! God only loves us and he didn't bother with any other planet. We're special.

Ha ha ha.

I suspect it wouldn't be a big deal if the aliens had never heard of Jesus -- after all, the Native Americans hadn't heard of him, either, and they're human. Eventually, the Christians would probably try to convert them, too.

But Christianity has held a technological advantage over every civilization it's come into contact with since the Crusades ended. How would the Church act if things were reversed? What if, instead of trying to enslave and/or feed on us, the super-advanced aliens came to earth to proselytize? I'm thinking of a reverse 1492 scenario where alien missionaries attempt to covert us from our pagan beliefs and worship the one true Klaatu -- and they'd be more willing to martyr themselves for the cause than murder us outright. But wave after wave of them would come, with technology beyond anything we can comprehend. What would the Church's reaction be then?

Are there any books that deal with this idea -- the "peaceful" alien invasion? I've been wondering ever since I read The Sparrow.

I think if we ever DID have contact with aliens, there'd be a huge potential for a religious crisis there.

So let's say we meet another sentient race. They have a civilization and all, and have a technology equivalent or superior to ours.

There's three huge problems for Christianity right here:

1. Do these sentient beings have a soul? Sounds like an easy one, but even if they had art, love, civilization and self-awareness, this could be a serious argument. If they don't, then you justify acting in terrible ways against them. (I.e. you establish a hierarchy between humans - creatures of God - and soulless heathen creatures.)

2. If these beings are sentient, do they have a concept of the Christian God? That's where it gets really f-ed up. See how Christianity (and pretty much any other major religion) has historically treated fellow HUMAN BEINGS who didn't share their view of monotheism. Now imagine if Christianity sees aliens as these beings with a soul, but to whom Jesus hasn't come yet. Think of the "savages" being converted by missionaries.

3. If these aliens have a soul, have religion, but turn down massive conversions to Christianity, what does it mean? Would it mean they are beings of Hell? Condemned souls?

Any way you look at it, there isn't a lot of chance that religion will look kindly upon sentient alien beings. There's no chance they'll have nailed a guy to a cross a few millennia back and refuse to eat pig-analogues... So you can bet religion will have a crisis if faced with another sentient race that doesn't validate their own fantasy about God.

And from the perspective of aliens, we'd come across as bigoted, narrow-minded, and totally self-deluded in our belief that our own historical mythical fantasy of the origin of the Universe has to translate to their world if we are to treat them as equals.

I'm intrigued by the part of the statement that mentions that some of these intelligent non-earthly life forms might be without Original Sin.

I guess we fucked-up.

@Triseult: I'm a pig-analogue.

@moff: "if you're reading Genesis particularly literally, you're maybe not the greatest critical thinker ever"

Well that is the crux now isn't it? The schism between logic and faith is a hard one to bridge; with the folks who try to keep one foot on either side left with their jimmies dangling in the breeze for either side to take pots shots at.

@dingleberry: Garthok - the third and fourth white meats.

@shehanum: Not at all, but it's been hashed out in a some other threads. What passes for critical thinking these days is usually a manifestation of what Marshall McLuhan would call the visual bias -- a tendency to conflate "reality" with "only things that are measurable." The folks on that side tend to have no real understanding of theology, often have not seriously or thoughtfully practiced religion, and tend to be inordinately proud of the fact that they can beat people who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old in an arguing contest.

@spacedcowboy: C.S> Lewis Lost me right at the "Interplanetary distances are God's Quarantine Regulations." As if he knew what the God Hypothesis did anything for.

C.S. was a convert, i understand and fond of telling god what to do. Tolkien was a real Catholic, and a much better writer. Not that those two things are congruent.

And Prince Caspian come out this week and the wife wants to see it. Pray for me. FSM prayers accepted.

@Triseult: I vaguely recall reading a passage of CS Lewis where he said that if there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, hopefully we'd have nothing to do with it. This based on humanity's track record with dealing with less advanced civilizations (and assuming the aliens would be no nicer than us).

Can anyone place this reference? Not enough specific nouns in there for googling...