![Earthling's "Space Slug Bad Touch" Is Destined For Cult Status](http://cache-05.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/03/126x100_earthling-poster.jpg "Earthling's "Space Slug Bad Touch" Is Destined For Cult Status")
![In "Ugly Americans," New York Is Full Of Monsters](http://cache-07.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/03/126x100_custom_1268854750368_picture_46_01.jpg "In "Ugly Americans," New York Is Full Of Monsters")
![Caprica's Esai Morales: "We Don’t Know When We’re Going To Get Picked Up"](http://cache-08.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2010/03/126x100_custom_1268846335859_picture_43_01.jpg "Caprica's Esai Morales: "We Don’t Know When We’re Going To Get Picked Up"")
Enter your username and password.
"Throughout recorded history, there have been women who masqueraded as men and vice versa." - and her name was Lily Elbe.
Sorry, but that's just mildly offensive - no, actually, that's pretty much on the very offensive end of it - these people were for the most part living as women and men, and didn't say otherwise, so, yeah - nice and all that Lily Elbe had people around that time who had the idea of testing (and lamentably failing) at surgical attempts to rewire her bits, but that didn't make her a woman all of a sudden. What made her a woman was her self-identification. This is the key.
Reply
@Laurence Martin: @Laurence Martin: What made "her" a man was her Y chromosome. There really is no such thing as true transsexuality. There are two sexes - the sex you are born with and the sex you aren't. There's the occasional Hermaphrodite or rare case of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome, but that's it. Everything else is more accurately classified as sexual preference or role playing.
Before you respond, note that I am not saying transsexuality does not exist or that it is wrong. All I am saying is that being born a woman and really wanting to be a man does not make you a man. It makes you a woman that really wants to be a man. Otherwise this would not have been possible:
Not a man
Actu@Gann:
Neither a man.
This is where you are wrong, the combination chromosomes-bits-mind is not that accurate, in fact, doctors go on a crap shoot everytime they decide.
@Laurence Martin: Appears the Moderators did not like my image. It was of the "man" that got pregnant recently.
Intersex births are rare (estimates vary from .1 to 1.7% of total births) and usually one set of 'bits' is functional while the other is not. The doctor's choice is not a 'crap shoot', but an aesthetic one designed to give the child a shot at a normal life.
Intersex births could logically be considered a third sex, but in reality are an abnormality - it has been shown that instances increase with inbreeding. This is entirely different though, from transsexuality which is a psychological phenomenon.
Reply
@Gann:
You may remove the scare quotes, Thomas Beattie is a man, no need to be an asshole.
Also, research is far from bearing the idea that "transsexuality is a psychological phenomenon". The doctor's choice is a crap shoot based on nothing more than whether the bit is long enough or not. It doesn't give a kid a normal life to be mutilated (which it is) - if the kid wants differently, it's their choice when they're at an age to do it - that has been the cruz of intersex activism for decades.
Reply
@Laurence Martin: So I'm just not getting why you are offended, here. Because I said Lili Elbe was a woman, even though her surgery failed? Because I talked about how people historically have had roles similar to those of the modern transsexual? Sounds like you're just looking for a reason to be angry because something about transsexualism bothers you.
Reply
@Gann: You have no idea what you are talking about. First of all, Thomas Beattie is a man. Legally and socially. That's just the way it is.
And intersex conditions are quite common. You might consider actually reading a book or two about it. I recommend Lessons from the Intersexed, which is a nice introduction [[www.amazon.com]]
Reply
@Annalee Newitz:
No, it's the pretense part, the Lily Elbe bit was about the most respectful I've seen outside of stuff written by trans people (and I admit it's partially an issue of personal weariness over the treatment of a number of historically very identifiable trans people :/) Reply
No, it's the pretense part, the Lily Elbe bit was about the most respectful I've seen outside of stuff written by trans people (and I admit it's partially an issue of personal weariness over the treatment of a number of historically very identifiable trans people :/) Reply
@Laurence Martin: Totally agree - I changed the word "masquerade" to "live" in the opening sentence to make it clear what I meant. I used the word "masquerade" simply because I was thinking literally of wearing clothes and adopting the life of the opposite sex. Sorry I was unclear.
Reply
@Annalee Newitz:
Thanks, I'm a bit sorry for the way I did it, and I appreciate the way you ended up handling it.
Thanks, I'm a bit sorry for the way I did it, and I appreciate the way you ended up handling it.
I remain, of course, an avid reader xD
Reply
@Annalee Newitz: I have some idea what I am talking about, I'm sorry if you disagree. While the transformation is accepted legally and socially, my point is that the pregnancy contradicts this. The ability to produce eggs and bear children is quintessentially female.
I understand your side of it, I just do not personally agree that a "sex-change" operation changes one's sex. It changes appearance. Again, I do not believe that this desire or the operation itself is wrong in any way, I just do not agree that the sex of the person actually changes.
@Laurence Martin: I think we are defining normal differently. I agree that it would be more natural for an intersexed child to be allowed to get old enough to decide themselves what to do with their condition. Also, in the normal course of things a child is not mutilated immediately after birth (except of course for circumcision, which is another discussion entirely). The problem is that by the time they're old enough to decide, the condition may have already ostracized them socially because its not normal. It could definitely be argued that the social pressures that force this kind of decision are morally wrong, but the fact remains that there is a social norm. From Annalee's Lessons from the Intersexed:
One can complain about the medical profession and call individual
physicians or the entire enterprise misogynistic and arrogant. Similarly,
one can complain that parents of intersexed infants are overly obsequious
toward medical authority, but ... if culture demands gender, physicians
will produce it, and of course, when physicians produce it, the fact that
gender is "demanded" will be hidden from everyone.