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Comics are a storytelling medium, games aren't. That's why games are 'harder' to adapt to film, there's nothing but visuals, and if there is a story they probably ripped it off from a film anyway.
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@dnwilliams: If you're being sarcastic then, please, ignore everything I'm about to say. If not, then:
Knights of the Old Republic, Mirror's Edge, Uncharted 1 & 2, God of War, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Dead Space, Bioshock, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Half Life, Sins of a Solar Empire, Assassin's Creed 2, Resident Evil 4, Home World and Myst.
Just a few of the games that I can think of off the top of my head that have better storytelling than most movies I've seen recently. Reply
Knights of the Old Republic, Mirror's Edge, Uncharted 1 & 2, God of War, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Dead Space, Bioshock, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Half Life, Sins of a Solar Empire, Assassin's Creed 2, Resident Evil 4, Home World and Myst.
Just a few of the games that I can think of off the top of my head that have better storytelling than most movies I've seen recently. Reply
@EdificeComplex: Needs more classics like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Full Throttle and The Dig, Fallout 1 and 2.
That way we can disregard the graphics issue. Reply
That way we can disregard the graphics issue. Reply
@Illogic: True. I'd also add Dark Forces and The 7th Guest (which I liked despite the LAV clips. Largely because Stauf was so demented.)
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@EdificeComplex: I wasn't being sarcastic at all. Comics are used to tell stories, games are used to immerse the player in an environment. I'm not hating on games, just stating that one medium emphasises the storytelling skills of writers and artists whilst the other emphasises graphics and gameplay.
A lot of the games you mentioned were heavily influenced by films (KotOR = Star Wars, Uncharted = Indiana Jones, Resident Evil = Dawn of the Dead, Metroid Prime = Alien). Comics are just generally far richer source material for adaptation. If you discuss a comic with someone you may say you love the art and the dialogue, but if it's a really good comic you talk about how brilliant the writing is, how well the characters are developed - that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games.
Remember, there's also more diversity in comics in terms of genre. Even though superheroes dominate, there are also autobiographies (Persepolis, American Splendor), comedy dramas (Ghost World, Scott Pilgrim) and histories (From Hell). These are areas of literature games cannot, or at least do not, exploit. Every game you listed would be an action movie if it were adapted. There can never be a game adaptation equivalent of Road to Perdition, A History of Violence, etc. Reply
A lot of the games you mentioned were heavily influenced by films (KotOR = Star Wars, Uncharted = Indiana Jones, Resident Evil = Dawn of the Dead, Metroid Prime = Alien). Comics are just generally far richer source material for adaptation. If you discuss a comic with someone you may say you love the art and the dialogue, but if it's a really good comic you talk about how brilliant the writing is, how well the characters are developed - that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games.
Remember, there's also more diversity in comics in terms of genre. Even though superheroes dominate, there are also autobiographies (Persepolis, American Splendor), comedy dramas (Ghost World, Scott Pilgrim) and histories (From Hell). These are areas of literature games cannot, or at least do not, exploit. Every game you listed would be an action movie if it were adapted. There can never be a game adaptation equivalent of Road to Perdition, A History of Violence, etc. Reply
@dnwilliams: "Comics are used to tell stories, games are used to immerse the player in an environment."
I disagree with you on that the two should be differentiated. I get immersed in a good story wether it's being told to me (books and movies) or I'm interacting with it (video games). I would argue that a comic, book or movie isn't doing its job if you are not immersed in its world. And a video game isn't doing its job if it isn't telling a story.
"...whilst the other emphasises graphics and gameplay."
I agree that may have been true of video games in their early days. Games like Doom and Duke Nukem were very much centered around gameplay rather than story. But I think that was more due to the limitations in technology than anything else. As the latest generation of consoles has shown, games are much more sophisticated. Games like the Uncharted series and Bioshock show that their writers and artists have created worlds that are just as intricate as the best book, movie or comic.
"A lot of the games you mentioned were heavily influenced by films (KotOR = Star Wars, Uncharted = Indiana Jones, Resident Evil = Dawn of the Dead, Metroid Prime = Alien)."
All of that is true. But nothing in the creative industry develops in a vacuum. I'm an architect, I should know. Star Wars was in turn influenced by the old stories of Wild West cowboys and legends of Samurais. Indiana Jones was influenced by the action hero serials of the early 20th century. Alien by the B-Horror movies of the 50s. Even comic books are not immune. Superman was influenced by mythic heroes such as Samson and Hercules. And Superman's Metropolis was heavily influenced by Fritz Lang's movie of the same name.
"but if it's a really good comic you talk about how brilliant the writing is, how well the characters are developed - that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games."
I have to disagree with you there as well. Yes, video games are still reviewed or praised based on their graphics and gameplay. But characters and storyline are making their way into how a game is received. Isaac Clarke (Dead Space), Nathan Drake (Uncharted) and Commander Shepard (Mass Effect) are all thought out and developed characters by the end of their respective games. And then you have a game like Heavy Rain which comes out next year. That game is centered solely around character development and not heavy action scenes or dismembering enemies. Reply
I disagree with you on that the two should be differentiated. I get immersed in a good story wether it's being told to me (books and movies) or I'm interacting with it (video games). I would argue that a comic, book or movie isn't doing its job if you are not immersed in its world. And a video game isn't doing its job if it isn't telling a story.
"...whilst the other emphasises graphics and gameplay."
I agree that may have been true of video games in their early days. Games like Doom and Duke Nukem were very much centered around gameplay rather than story. But I think that was more due to the limitations in technology than anything else. As the latest generation of consoles has shown, games are much more sophisticated. Games like the Uncharted series and Bioshock show that their writers and artists have created worlds that are just as intricate as the best book, movie or comic.
"A lot of the games you mentioned were heavily influenced by films (KotOR = Star Wars, Uncharted = Indiana Jones, Resident Evil = Dawn of the Dead, Metroid Prime = Alien)."
All of that is true. But nothing in the creative industry develops in a vacuum. I'm an architect, I should know. Star Wars was in turn influenced by the old stories of Wild West cowboys and legends of Samurais. Indiana Jones was influenced by the action hero serials of the early 20th century. Alien by the B-Horror movies of the 50s. Even comic books are not immune. Superman was influenced by mythic heroes such as Samson and Hercules. And Superman's Metropolis was heavily influenced by Fritz Lang's movie of the same name.
"but if it's a really good comic you talk about how brilliant the writing is, how well the characters are developed - that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games."
I have to disagree with you there as well. Yes, video games are still reviewed or praised based on their graphics and gameplay. But characters and storyline are making their way into how a game is received. Isaac Clarke (Dead Space), Nathan Drake (Uncharted) and Commander Shepard (Mass Effect) are all thought out and developed characters by the end of their respective games. And then you have a game like Heavy Rain which comes out next year. That game is centered solely around character development and not heavy action scenes or dismembering enemies. Reply
@EdificeComplex: "Games like the Uncharted series and Bioshock show that their writers and artists have created worlds that are just as intricate as the best book, movie or comic."
I strongly disagree with that. There's no video game equivalent of Brave New World, The Godfather or Watchmen.
"characters and storyline are making their way into how a game is received"
That's exactly my point, they're making their way into how a game is received, but they are by no means the be all and end all - story is not paramount. Game developers at this point in time do not set about to make a game because they want to tell a good story, they do so because they want to create a memorable experience. A great game can have a weak story and still be a truly great game. Comics are completely different, without story they are nothing.
Jason Reitman made a good point when he said that video games as a medium are in their infancy, that where we are with games now is the equivalent of being in the 1920s with cinema, so there's a long way to go. Reply
I strongly disagree with that. There's no video game equivalent of Brave New World, The Godfather or Watchmen.
"characters and storyline are making their way into how a game is received"
That's exactly my point, they're making their way into how a game is received, but they are by no means the be all and end all - story is not paramount. Game developers at this point in time do not set about to make a game because they want to tell a good story, they do so because they want to create a memorable experience. A great game can have a weak story and still be a truly great game. Comics are completely different, without story they are nothing.
Jason Reitman made a good point when he said that video games as a medium are in their infancy, that where we are with games now is the equivalent of being in the 1920s with cinema, so there's a long way to go. Reply
@dnwilliams: " that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games." Maybe you just don't have enough conversations about video games? Me and my friends go on and on about the stories in video games long after we are done playing them. True some games do horrible at things like character development, but some do.
BTW, even though KOTOR was influenced by Star Wars, if Lucas made a movie out of it I predict it would be the GREATEST star wars ever, or at the very least better than all the prequels combined. And this is coming from someone who actually liked the prequels...will the first 2 anyway. Reply
BTW, even though KOTOR was influenced by Star Wars, if Lucas made a movie out of it I predict it would be the GREATEST star wars ever, or at the very least better than all the prequels combined. And this is coming from someone who actually liked the prequels...will the first 2 anyway. Reply
@dnwilliams: "Game developers at this point in time do not set about to make a game because they want to tell a good story, they do so because they want to create a memorable experience."
I strongly disagree with that first part, to the point of taking offense. As a software developer with some small experience in creating games. I've always been of the opinion that story was the most important piece of the puzzle. The difference with games though (in relation to movies or comics) is that you can have a horrible game with a wonderful story. This means developers have to focus on both story and gameplay because no matter how good the story may be, if the game is no fun to play then people won't play it. But to say they don't set out with the intent of telling a great story is a great disservice to many game developers (caveat being that obviously not all games are intended to be story-driven). I've seen many movies, read many books, and played many games. We must also consider that video games are still in their infancy. Books have been common since some time after Gutenberg developed the printing press in the 1400's, Movies have been around since the end of the 19th century (and share many of the same story-telling principles as books). Whereas video games had their start at the end of the 1950's.
Lots of games have told wonderful stories, and that many of them were good games on top of that is an accomplishment. Ultima IV was a fun game for its time, and while light on story it was the first (to my knowledge) to introduce morality and choices into a game. From there things have only grown as a developer's ability to play to the strengths of the digital medium have improved. But this has never been at the cost of story. Rather it's allowed them to improve their ability to present the designer's tale to the player in greater and more meaningful ways. Baldur's Gate II, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Uncharted, and countless other games have all clearly placed their stories at the forefront of the game. Both as a device to entertain and in conveying the designer's message. As both the technology and society's acceptance of video games as a mature medium for story telling continue to grow we'll see even more impressive examples of immersive and meaningful storytelling. It only takes a look at titles such as Heavy Rain to see that the gaming industry is continuing to evolve. To discount the efforts, or compare stories in games to those in far more mature forms of media is a great disservice to the game development industry. Just as it is to make claim that story has never been the driving force behind a video game, when any number of game designer interviews can demonstrate that to be untrue. We mustn't confuse the need for great gameplay to mean that story at any point took back seat to it.
The games I and others have listed ARE the Brave New World, Citizen Kane , The Godfather, and Watchmen of the video game world. Will games in the future be able to tell more immersive and impressive stories? Certainly, but this is more a condition of improving technology. Will gaming expand to fill other genres such as you mentioned? Almost definitely. Can we ever truly compare them to other forms of media? Never, at least not without doing a disservice to one or the other. They're different, and will remain so as the means of interacting with the story are different. But don't let that fool you into believing one is any less capable of moving the participant, or any less capable of spinning a strong tale than the other. Reply
I strongly disagree with that first part, to the point of taking offense. As a software developer with some small experience in creating games. I've always been of the opinion that story was the most important piece of the puzzle. The difference with games though (in relation to movies or comics) is that you can have a horrible game with a wonderful story. This means developers have to focus on both story and gameplay because no matter how good the story may be, if the game is no fun to play then people won't play it. But to say they don't set out with the intent of telling a great story is a great disservice to many game developers (caveat being that obviously not all games are intended to be story-driven). I've seen many movies, read many books, and played many games. We must also consider that video games are still in their infancy. Books have been common since some time after Gutenberg developed the printing press in the 1400's, Movies have been around since the end of the 19th century (and share many of the same story-telling principles as books). Whereas video games had their start at the end of the 1950's.
Lots of games have told wonderful stories, and that many of them were good games on top of that is an accomplishment. Ultima IV was a fun game for its time, and while light on story it was the first (to my knowledge) to introduce morality and choices into a game. From there things have only grown as a developer's ability to play to the strengths of the digital medium have improved. But this has never been at the cost of story. Rather it's allowed them to improve their ability to present the designer's tale to the player in greater and more meaningful ways. Baldur's Gate II, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Uncharted, and countless other games have all clearly placed their stories at the forefront of the game. Both as a device to entertain and in conveying the designer's message. As both the technology and society's acceptance of video games as a mature medium for story telling continue to grow we'll see even more impressive examples of immersive and meaningful storytelling. It only takes a look at titles such as Heavy Rain to see that the gaming industry is continuing to evolve. To discount the efforts, or compare stories in games to those in far more mature forms of media is a great disservice to the game development industry. Just as it is to make claim that story has never been the driving force behind a video game, when any number of game designer interviews can demonstrate that to be untrue. We mustn't confuse the need for great gameplay to mean that story at any point took back seat to it.
The games I and others have listed ARE the Brave New World, Citizen Kane , The Godfather, and Watchmen of the video game world. Will games in the future be able to tell more immersive and impressive stories? Certainly, but this is more a condition of improving technology. Will gaming expand to fill other genres such as you mentioned? Almost definitely. Can we ever truly compare them to other forms of media? Never, at least not without doing a disservice to one or the other. They're different, and will remain so as the means of interacting with the story are different. But don't let that fool you into believing one is any less capable of moving the participant, or any less capable of spinning a strong tale than the other. Reply
@Moonlighter:
"The games I and others have listed ARE the Brave New World, Citizen Kane , The Godfather, and Watchmen of the video game world."
I'm sorry to hear that. Reply
"The games I and others have listed ARE the Brave New World, Citizen Kane , The Godfather, and Watchmen of the video game world."
I'm sorry to hear that. Reply
@dnwilliams: I stand by my statement, the first two prequels where not that bad. But the third one sucked. Don't get me wrong none of them hold a candle to the original trilogy. But that's besides the point. I also stand by my statement that a KOTOR movie would be the best thing to happen to star wars since......the KOTOR games.
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