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I personally don't use chrome because it doesn't have a title bar. On my screen, I have winamp running at the top, covering only the title bar. This has worked for every windowed application except chrome, since the tabs are where the title bar should have been.
While I understand the desire from users with smaller screens to remove the title bar, the overall design of the window should not change (at least not by default). Reply
While I understand the desire from users with smaller screens to remove the title bar, the overall design of the window should not change (at least not by default). Reply
@psychiccheese: I think they should respect the user's desire to have a bar there, for whatever the reasons, but they should also allow the people who don't have that need (which are the huge majority, by the way) or an extra inch to spare, to remove it. After all, that's always been the Firefox philosophy: Doing only the basic stuff but doing it right, and allowing the user to add whatever he needs with extensions.
BTW, is Firefox getting slower and slower because we keep adding it extensions and extensions, because websites keep getting heavier and heavier? (nothing kills my Fx like a dozen gawker tabs open), or because it IS getting slower and slower ? Reply
BTW, is Firefox getting slower and slower because we keep adding it extensions and extensions, because websites keep getting heavier and heavier? (nothing kills my Fx like a dozen gawker tabs open), or because it IS getting slower and slower ? Reply
@psychiccheese: Why not resize your chrome browser to sit just below your winamp bar and stop worrying about it?
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@psychiccheese: XP is installed on my netbook and title bars are big and ugly. currently i'm using Hide Caption addon to get more screen real estate: [addons.mozilla.org]
anyway, although i like the top center one of the mock-ups above, it's the only one with no title bar. so it seems that Mozilla won't remove the title bar from Fx4 final release. i hope atleast they add an option to toggle between, say, top-center and bottom left themes. Reply
anyway, although i like the top center one of the mock-ups above, it's the only one with no title bar. so it seems that Mozilla won't remove the title bar from Fx4 final release. i hope atleast they add an option to toggle between, say, top-center and bottom left themes. Reply
@psychiccheese: I've become a huge fan of minimalistic design, like Chrome has. I'd love to see Firefox adapt to this preference. There'll, of course, be skins to change it up, so I don't think any of us need to worry.
Reply
@rickatnight11:
does nobody here see the irony of firefoxees complaining about IE and web standards, and then firefox not complying to OS GUI standards? Reply
does nobody here see the irony of firefoxees complaining about IE and web standards, and then firefox not complying to OS GUI standards? Reply
@rickatnight11:
Windows 3.11, 95, and as far as i know all other desktop windows' have windows with title bars.
Gnome, KDE, XFCE and a tonne of Xwindow managers have title bars.
Mac OSX, and the leopards, and Lisa and NeXTSTEP have title bars.
The standard setup for programs on desktops, laptops and netbooks is a window with a title bar. People have gotten used to it. It has become the standard.
But currently, there are several programs (chrome, adobe CS4, latest opera, etc) that are breaking this standard.
I'm not saying the title par is better per sé, i'm saying it's the standard way. If all software developers come up with their own "SUPERBESTAWESOME LAYOUT" it'll be a confusing mess. Remember the MS Ribbon interface? That sucks, because it breaks the standard, and it voids all expectations.
I'm not saying 'remove this look and burn it to ashes', I'm saying 'make this look an option, and have the default adhere to the standard taskbar look'. Reply
Windows 3.11, 95, and as far as i know all other desktop windows' have windows with title bars.
Gnome, KDE, XFCE and a tonne of Xwindow managers have title bars.
Mac OSX, and the leopards, and Lisa and NeXTSTEP have title bars.
The standard setup for programs on desktops, laptops and netbooks is a window with a title bar. People have gotten used to it. It has become the standard.
But currently, there are several programs (chrome, adobe CS4, latest opera, etc) that are breaking this standard.
I'm not saying the title par is better per sé, i'm saying it's the standard way. If all software developers come up with their own "SUPERBESTAWESOME LAYOUT" it'll be a confusing mess. Remember the MS Ribbon interface? That sucks, because it breaks the standard, and it voids all expectations.
I'm not saying 'remove this look and burn it to ashes', I'm saying 'make this look an option, and have the default adhere to the standard taskbar look'. Reply
@pixelsnader: The only reason I asked is because there actually isn't a set standard.
Web standards are literally standards. They exist to help standardize the rendering of code on many platforms.
Interfaces don't really have a standard. Sure, you could decided to make your interface familiar, but Firefox is attempting something new that's functional and looks nice.
This is the power of an operating system, to support running applications with all sorts of interfaces and features. Reply
Web standards are literally standards. They exist to help standardize the rendering of code on many platforms.
Interfaces don't really have a standard. Sure, you could decided to make your interface familiar, but Firefox is attempting something new that's functional and looks nice.
This is the power of an operating system, to support running applications with all sorts of interfaces and features. Reply
@rickatnight11:
You're missing the big picture here. I'm fine with this layout being an OPTION, and windows CAN do it. Users SHOULD be allowed to have this look if they WANT TO.
But it should not be the default setting. Someone thats digitally illiterate won't understand this new layout, nor can they find out where to change it. You, I, lifehackerers are tech savvy. Your grandma isn't and she will be confused by this. She won't see the difference, but when she starts using it she suddenly finds out that File - Print is gone.
Besides, this new layout hardly gains any space at all: [dl.dropbox.com]
-lines drawn are where the menu ends and the content starts
-the yellow text rectangle is 20 pixels, which is the leading on LH, the difference between Opera and FF4 is not even a single line of text.
-breaking ingrained GUI standards gives us 17 extra pixels. Even on the smallest netbooks that's not even 3%.
If you really have that much need for a few pixels, set the windows taskbar to autohide, thats 29 extra pixels. Or go to fullscreen view, and get roughly 100 extra pixels.
And about standards:
You: "The only reason I asked is because there actually isn't a set standard."
not quite. for instance CSS 2 is still a 'working draft' on roughly 75% of the topics, and only 2 of about 40-50 topics are 'recommendations' which are the highest w3 raking for css. Not rules, recommendations.
and here's an excerpt from MSDN:
"Nonclient Area
The title bar, menu bar, window menu, minimize and maximize buttons, sizing border, and scroll bars are referred to collectively as the window's nonclient area. The system manages most aspects of the nonclient area; the application manages the appearance and behavior of its client area."
Which basically means "don't touch this and let MSwindows handle it"
and
"The title bar displays an application-defined icon and line of text; typically, the text specifies the name of the application or indicates the purpose of the window. An application specifies the icon and text when creating the window. The title bar also makes it possible for the user to move the window by using a mouse or other pointing device."
I'm sorry to sound willy nilly, but the title bar definitely is a standard. At least on Windows it is.
you said web standards "exist to help standardize the rendering of code on many platforms."
GUI standards exist to help user interaction, to reduce learning curves for new programs. To make sure the retards understand it. To prevent alienation.
If you want to have a different looking firefox, fine. But don't assume that what works best for you works best for the median user. Reply
You're missing the big picture here. I'm fine with this layout being an OPTION, and windows CAN do it. Users SHOULD be allowed to have this look if they WANT TO.
But it should not be the default setting. Someone thats digitally illiterate won't understand this new layout, nor can they find out where to change it. You, I, lifehackerers are tech savvy. Your grandma isn't and she will be confused by this. She won't see the difference, but when she starts using it she suddenly finds out that File - Print is gone.
Besides, this new layout hardly gains any space at all: [dl.dropbox.com]
-lines drawn are where the menu ends and the content starts
-the yellow text rectangle is 20 pixels, which is the leading on LH, the difference between Opera and FF4 is not even a single line of text.
-breaking ingrained GUI standards gives us 17 extra pixels. Even on the smallest netbooks that's not even 3%.
If you really have that much need for a few pixels, set the windows taskbar to autohide, thats 29 extra pixels. Or go to fullscreen view, and get roughly 100 extra pixels.
And about standards:
You: "The only reason I asked is because there actually isn't a set standard."
not quite. for instance CSS 2 is still a 'working draft' on roughly 75% of the topics, and only 2 of about 40-50 topics are 'recommendations' which are the highest w3 raking for css. Not rules, recommendations.
and here's an excerpt from MSDN:
"Nonclient Area
The title bar, menu bar, window menu, minimize and maximize buttons, sizing border, and scroll bars are referred to collectively as the window's nonclient area. The system manages most aspects of the nonclient area; the application manages the appearance and behavior of its client area."
Which basically means "don't touch this and let MSwindows handle it"
and
"The title bar displays an application-defined icon and line of text; typically, the text specifies the name of the application or indicates the purpose of the window. An application specifies the icon and text when creating the window. The title bar also makes it possible for the user to move the window by using a mouse or other pointing device."
I'm sorry to sound willy nilly, but the title bar definitely is a standard. At least on Windows it is.
you said web standards "exist to help standardize the rendering of code on many platforms."
GUI standards exist to help user interaction, to reduce learning curves for new programs. To make sure the retards understand it. To prevent alienation.
If you want to have a different looking firefox, fine. But don't assume that what works best for you works best for the median user. Reply