Awesome- It's amazing what flipping the camera upside down and having the divers walk on the bottom of the ice looks like.
One of the more interesting aspects of the time travel storyline of this series, before time travel became overused as a deus ex machina by lazy screen writers, is that the origins of ape society have a metaphysical characteristic to them. The apes that Taylor encounters are convinced that they are God's creation and deeply dogmatic. The interesting thing is that they have reason to be, especially if they are descended from Caesar.
Caesar is both the child and founder of ape civilization. As such, his origins are implied to exist outside of nature. By analogy, it's a little like the paradox of a man going back in time to give himself a watch as a child (or whatever- it could be knowledge like the formula for transparent aluminum). The child grows up, builds a time machine, and takes the watch he received from his future self back in time to give himself the watch as a child. The watch is caught in a paradoxical loop in which no one ever actually constructed it. It is the product of time travel, it was never purchased by anyone or built by anyone, a spontaneous metaphysical manifestation of the event itself and not a product of human ingenuity or nature.
Much like the watch or transparent aluminum, the origins of ape society are thus a metaphysical event if Caesar, the last survivor of ape society, is also its founder.
Caesar is both the child and founder of ape civilization. As such, his origins are implied to exist outside of nature. By analogy, it's a little like the paradox of a man going back in time to give himself a watch as a child (or whatever- it could be knowledge like the formula for transparent aluminum). The child grows up, builds a time machine, and takes the watch he received from his future self back in time to give himself the watch as a child. The watch is caught in a paradoxical loop in which no one ever actually constructed it. It is the product of time travel, it was never purchased by anyone or built by anyone, a spontaneous metaphysical manifestation of the event itself and not a product of human ingenuity or nature.
Much like the watch or transparent aluminum, the origins of ape society are thus a metaphysical event if Caesar, the last survivor of ape society, is also its founder.
I'm interested in seeing how Colussus pans out. This movie, which itself was likely influenced by 2001, probably inspired some of the themes in later films such as Demon Seed, War Games, and Terminator.
^ Logan5 likes this.
I don’t know if the paper misses the point of Franklins aphorism, but it’s likely that many of those who read it did. What Franklin is drawing attention to isn’t the amount of sleep ones get or when one gets it. Instead, the emphasis is on the habit of going to sleep and waking early, neither of which is easy to do. This actually is a model, many would argue, for being successful and many contemporary papers today support the idea that particular types of habits or the ability to practice in certain ways leads to being successful.
Going to sleep and waking early serve as a good model for this because one can imagine that doing it successfully has many of the characteristics of good habits or practices. It must be consistent and to do it right the sleeper probably needs to get the feedback and critiques necessary to improve the practice of this habit to its highest state. If you know how to succeed at making yourself go to sleep and wake early than you have the formula for succeeding with other practices that lead to excellence.
The authors may not have found " evidence to support the Franklin or Thurber hypotheses that sleep habits dictate health, wealth or wisdom, either for the good or the bad. " But there is plenty of evidence that this type of habit, and the ability to cultivate it in other areas of ones life, does really lead to success
Going to sleep and waking early serve as a good model for this because one can imagine that doing it successfully has many of the characteristics of good habits or practices. It must be consistent and to do it right the sleeper probably needs to get the feedback and critiques necessary to improve the practice of this habit to its highest state. If you know how to succeed at making yourself go to sleep and wake early than you have the formula for succeeding with other practices that lead to excellence.
The authors may not have found " evidence to support the Franklin or Thurber hypotheses that sleep habits dictate health, wealth or wisdom, either for the good or the bad. " But there is plenty of evidence that this type of habit, and the ability to cultivate it in other areas of ones life, does really lead to success
From what I've allowed myself to read about this movie it seems that the producers and director are taking the subject seriously and really thinking in realistic terms how this scenario could occur. That's important because it gives the opportunity to suspend disbelief.
The original series suffered from this a bit, particularly the sequels. The mechanism by which ape's rose to dominance didn't need to be explained, it simply needed to be credible. I felt the first film portrayed that most believably, despite the shortened time on the scale of thousands rather than millions of years allowed for ape society to evolve.
It also seems that the original series are being respected which is equally encouraging. I like that homage is being paid to the original films in what appears to be a credible way.
Looking forward to seeing this in August!
The original series suffered from this a bit, particularly the sequels. The mechanism by which ape's rose to dominance didn't need to be explained, it simply needed to be credible. I felt the first film portrayed that most believably, despite the shortened time on the scale of thousands rather than millions of years allowed for ape society to evolve.
It also seems that the original series are being respected which is equally encouraging. I like that homage is being paid to the original films in what appears to be a credible way.
Looking forward to seeing this in August!
The description of the Doctor could easily also be a description of Spock from the Star Trek 'reboot': "an alien from another time, but (as characters often remark) he has a magic box."
The only difference is that the rebooted Spock has pointy ears and a magic red ball, and his space ship is shaped like a cuttlefish instead of a phone booth. Also, Spock dresses more like a wizard than the Doc.
Maybe there should a corresponding section of sci-fi characters/franchises that became fantasy (in the case of Star Trek through the abuse of time travel as a deus ex machina).
The only difference is that the rebooted Spock has pointy ears and a magic red ball, and his space ship is shaped like a cuttlefish instead of a phone booth. Also, Spock dresses more like a wizard than the Doc.
Maybe there should a corresponding section of sci-fi characters/franchises that became fantasy (in the case of Star Trek through the abuse of time travel as a deus ex machina).
I remember this movie. I think it was on ABC. The title, at least to me at the time, had a double meaning. I came away thinking that the last dinosaur wasn’t the T. Rex at all but rather Thrust. It would be interesting to see this movie again so many years later.
I recently re-watched another Rankin-Bass film on ABC starring Connie Seleca and Carl "Apollo Creed" Weathers called the Bermuda Depths that really stuck with me for years about, bizarrely, a giant Gamera sized demonic turtle and sea nymph. It had an equally haunting theme, based on Bach, and the green eyes will always be memorable. Re-watching it ruined it.
I recently re-watched another Rankin-Bass film on ABC starring Connie Seleca and Carl "Apollo Creed" Weathers called the Bermuda Depths that really stuck with me for years about, bizarrely, a giant Gamera sized demonic turtle and sea nymph. It had an equally haunting theme, based on Bach, and the green eyes will always be memorable. Re-watching it ruined it.
I'd love an invite- kraytslayer@gmail.com.
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
Best car crash ever was in the Simpsons when a milk truck crashes and explodes.
Also some good car crashes in the Wraith which has the distinction of being a sci-fi film starring Charlie Sheen.
Also some good car crashes in the Wraith which has the distinction of being a sci-fi film starring Charlie Sheen.
In addition to Flirty's comment, I think that when a person goes to buy a ticket for this movie they will just shorten it to "One for Planet of the Apes please" thus reaffirming the linkage between this movie and the originals.
Sadly, a lot of "sci-fi" writers don't know anything about science. You can recognize them when they take the name of a scientific concept and use it as a deus ex machina to make sense of otherwise incoherent story lines.
I thought a nice tie in with the BSG final five story line (that was ultimately very disappointing for me) would have been a minor rewrite of how they got to the colonies. It would have been cool, narratively at least, if the resurrection technology had been invented on the colonies and that the first duplicates to come through were the final five, transmitted from a long dead world across the galaxy.
I thought a nice tie in with the BSG final five story line (that was ultimately very disappointing for me) would have been a minor rewrite of how they got to the colonies. It would have been cool, narratively at least, if the resurrection technology had been invented on the colonies and that the first duplicates to come through were the final five, transmitted from a long dead world across the galaxy.
If no one watched this show on prime time why would they watch it on Sci-Fi (I also can't bring myself to type that ridiculous name).
My preference by far would be an SGU miniseries to conclude the show as it deserves.
This reeks of a political decision within NBC to appease well connected execs and to milk a little money out of product placement rather than a decision on the merits of the show.
Also, the incoherent final episode of the Event should be left to stand as a monument to the stupidity of the show.
My preference by far would be an SGU miniseries to conclude the show as it deserves.
This reeks of a political decision within NBC to appease well connected execs and to milk a little money out of product placement rather than a decision on the merits of the show.
Also, the incoherent final episode of the Event should be left to stand as a monument to the stupidity of the show.
Something is Out There was a sci-fi cop show that lasted a season. The mini-series was highly rated which led to a short lived series.
I read the discussion on the linked post regarding the threat of the Dothraki against Westeros. It’s difficult to disagree that on the face of it the light infantry of the Dothraki would likely not be quite they are being construed to be. The medieval armies of Westeros would probably possess a considerable advantage on level ground and the Dothraki don’t appear to possess the tech or the patience to launch successful sieges.
What is missing from this assessment however is the geopolitical factor brought to the table by the Targaryens. It’s not difficult to envision a scenario where sympathizers to the Targaryens in Westeros would supply and reinforce the Dothraki invaders. Their could be many motives for such alliances, starting with the pragmatic observance that those allied with the Dothraki would be spared their pillaging. In combination with small militias familiar with the territory armed with siege weapons as well as a source of local supplies the light infantry of the Dothraki would indeed be formidable.
Perhaps that is what King Robert fears most. Not the Dothraki themselves but the possibility that they would ally with those within his own kingdom to tear the kingdom apart. It already seems clear that Westeros is held together by very tenuous and worn alliances.
I admit that I haven’t read the books so I don’t know what role dragons may have in this scenario. It’s also unclear to me how much of a threat the white walkers represent.
What is missing from this assessment however is the geopolitical factor brought to the table by the Targaryens. It’s not difficult to envision a scenario where sympathizers to the Targaryens in Westeros would supply and reinforce the Dothraki invaders. Their could be many motives for such alliances, starting with the pragmatic observance that those allied with the Dothraki would be spared their pillaging. In combination with small militias familiar with the territory armed with siege weapons as well as a source of local supplies the light infantry of the Dothraki would indeed be formidable.
Perhaps that is what King Robert fears most. Not the Dothraki themselves but the possibility that they would ally with those within his own kingdom to tear the kingdom apart. It already seems clear that Westeros is held together by very tenuous and worn alliances.
I admit that I haven’t read the books so I don’t know what role dragons may have in this scenario. It’s also unclear to me how much of a threat the white walkers represent.
I can accept the rationale that a show should be cancelled if the ratings can't sustain it.
The root of the resentment that situations like this create is that the show really should have a dedicated finale. The television network expects the audience to sit through their commercials to pay their bills to tell a story. The audience expects that story to be told a satisfying conclusion. It’s cynical to argue that TV viewers are, through economic necessity, taking a gamble whenever they invest their time in a show or concept. And it’s naïve for networks to ignore the value this has in promoting their shows and building communities of viewers who can drive the shows popularity up.
If networks are going to produce shows that take long story arcs to reach their conclusions then part of that commitment should mean reaching that conclusion. Whether that occurs in one season or ten can depend on the ratings and I wouldn’t argue otherwise. But to the degree that my feelings are shared with others on this subject if networks want to avoid backlashes or having to write these letters they should just fulfill the responsibility to their viewers and finish it off.
To me this seems to be a common sense and responsible thing to do for everyone involved. It treats not only the viewing audience but the creative staff, including the writers and actors, with the respect they deserve and have earned.
Also, I don’t care what the network promises to produce in the future. It’s great SyFy is going to produce BSG Blood and Chrome and Alphas but that’s not the point. My interest is in specific stories that I have invested my time in, not the genre in general. It would be like ESPN arguing that they won’t show football anymore but not to worry, we’ll soon be airing full contact ping pong which will show our devotion to sports.
The root of the resentment that situations like this create is that the show really should have a dedicated finale. The television network expects the audience to sit through their commercials to pay their bills to tell a story. The audience expects that story to be told a satisfying conclusion. It’s cynical to argue that TV viewers are, through economic necessity, taking a gamble whenever they invest their time in a show or concept. And it’s naïve for networks to ignore the value this has in promoting their shows and building communities of viewers who can drive the shows popularity up.
If networks are going to produce shows that take long story arcs to reach their conclusions then part of that commitment should mean reaching that conclusion. Whether that occurs in one season or ten can depend on the ratings and I wouldn’t argue otherwise. But to the degree that my feelings are shared with others on this subject if networks want to avoid backlashes or having to write these letters they should just fulfill the responsibility to their viewers and finish it off.
To me this seems to be a common sense and responsible thing to do for everyone involved. It treats not only the viewing audience but the creative staff, including the writers and actors, with the respect they deserve and have earned.
Also, I don’t care what the network promises to produce in the future. It’s great SyFy is going to produce BSG Blood and Chrome and Alphas but that’s not the point. My interest is in specific stories that I have invested my time in, not the genre in general. It would be like ESPN arguing that they won’t show football anymore but not to worry, we’ll soon be airing full contact ping pong which will show our devotion to sports.
This is one of the few cancellations that has really irked me in fact and I've been through quite a few. I know that there are those who would disagree but Stargate Universe but I thought this was turning out to be the best of the Stargate series. A great part of that for me came from the fact that the material was treated with respect and seriousness. I'm not very tolerant of campiness, especially consistent campiness, with my sci-fi. I'm also hard pressed to come up with characters as interesting as Eli or Uncle Rush. And of course Brody and Volker were great.
Even worse, I really did feel this series did hit a creative stride and the characters were developing in really interesting ways along with the storyline. It had an intriguing plot with a lot of potential, didn't fall into the pitfalls of evil alien race stereotypes, and was becoming an adventure show rather than a comic book. It also had some really great moments that I thought were really well done, moments that were enhanced by the piano score which I felt was superb and appropriately haunting.
As others have observed, it's astounding that this channel would program wrestling. It really is indicative of the mentality of those who are at the helm of this station. At the very least they should permit the producers of the show to provide their audience with the courtesy of true finale rather than just canceling the show without a satisfying conclusion.
And kudos to the producers for creating a great last episode even if it wasn't a finale. They did the best they could with this episode. SGU deserved better and so did those of us who came to enjoy it.
Even worse, I really did feel this series did hit a creative stride and the characters were developing in really interesting ways along with the storyline. It had an intriguing plot with a lot of potential, didn't fall into the pitfalls of evil alien race stereotypes, and was becoming an adventure show rather than a comic book. It also had some really great moments that I thought were really well done, moments that were enhanced by the piano score which I felt was superb and appropriately haunting.
As others have observed, it's astounding that this channel would program wrestling. It really is indicative of the mentality of those who are at the helm of this station. At the very least they should permit the producers of the show to provide their audience with the courtesy of true finale rather than just canceling the show without a satisfying conclusion.
And kudos to the producers for creating a great last episode even if it wasn't a finale. They did the best they could with this episode. SGU deserved better and so did those of us who came to enjoy it.
I completely agree. The standards of this network are truly confounding.
Fringe, Lost, and Star Trek are both mostly, if not entirely, fantasy.
This is especially the case with the Star Trek reboot and the Fringe season finale (unsurprisingly), both of which conjure up a magical spell that the writers called "time travel." That's not to say that time travel isn't a subject worthy of scientific discussion. It's simply the case that the writers aren't using time travel in their stories. They're using a deus ex machina to re-write their plot lines halfway in between for shock value and simply calling it "time travel" in order to extract legitimacy from an actual scientific concept.
Thus, when fans of these shows turn up on forums like this to discuss the merits or detriments of how "time travel" was used in a recent episode they're not talking about time travel. What they're actually discussing or debating is the writers sleight of hand to deceive the audience that they don't need to explain the latest plot twist because they decide to provide it with a scientific sounding name. They're not debating science, just a writers trick with a scientific sounding name but which, ultimately, is no different than magic.
I would distinguish what the writers of these stories do with true science fiction involving time travel, such as HG Wells the Time Machine and even Terminator.
This is especially the case with the Star Trek reboot and the Fringe season finale (unsurprisingly), both of which conjure up a magical spell that the writers called "time travel." That's not to say that time travel isn't a subject worthy of scientific discussion. It's simply the case that the writers aren't using time travel in their stories. They're using a deus ex machina to re-write their plot lines halfway in between for shock value and simply calling it "time travel" in order to extract legitimacy from an actual scientific concept.
Thus, when fans of these shows turn up on forums like this to discuss the merits or detriments of how "time travel" was used in a recent episode they're not talking about time travel. What they're actually discussing or debating is the writers sleight of hand to deceive the audience that they don't need to explain the latest plot twist because they decide to provide it with a scientific sounding name. They're not debating science, just a writers trick with a scientific sounding name but which, ultimately, is no different than magic.
I would distinguish what the writers of these stories do with true science fiction involving time travel, such as HG Wells the Time Machine and even Terminator.
I'm not a big fan of time travel and feel these writers in particular inevitably resort to it as a lazy way to repair their story lines or generate suspense. It's a deus ex machina and the equivalent of using magic. It has been so overused and corrupted that it's no more believable than having a wizard cast a spell or the writers themselves appear and rewrite the episode while the audience observes, not unlike a Bugs Bunny episode. That aside, it almost always falls flat with the writers unable to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves into.
The one aspect of time travel that does interest me and is inevitably neglected was featured in this episode however. Unless I misunderstood Walter didn't build the machine. He simply sent the machine that was found back into the past where it would be found again. Because of this the machine was not created by anyone- it is the product of the paradox and completely unnatural. Its origins are metaphysical.
Parenthetically, the ape race in Planet of the Apes (the movies, not the novel) has similar metaphysical origins. They are at least partially the descendants of their own descendent and therefore partially evolved outside of nature.
The one aspect of time travel that does interest me and is inevitably neglected was featured in this episode however. Unless I misunderstood Walter didn't build the machine. He simply sent the machine that was found back into the past where it would be found again. Because of this the machine was not created by anyone- it is the product of the paradox and completely unnatural. Its origins are metaphysical.
Parenthetically, the ape race in Planet of the Apes (the movies, not the novel) has similar metaphysical origins. They are at least partially the descendants of their own descendent and therefore partially evolved outside of nature.
