@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: I actually have a portrait of him hanging right here in front of me on the wall. Also Einstein and Mark Twain. We should do a "What's hanging on the wall by your computer?" photo thing sometime.
Little known fact: Thomas Jefferson was a genetic property rights pirate.
During the Revolutionary War, the American long grain rice crop had been pillaged by English troops, and after the war the remaining stocks of short grained rice did not sell well on the global market.
Italy had tasty and valuable long grain rice, but seed stocks were banned for export, under penalty of death. Jefferson "toured" a northern Italian farm with a jacket made without bottom seams in the pockets. When no one was looking, he simply scooped up handfuls of Italy's genetic property, and dumped the loot in his coat. He was invited down to Rome, but feigned illness and high tailed it back to France. The seed stocks were shipped home, and there you have it.
Thats right, the early American economy, founded on genetic piracy!
Except that the selection criteria are assuming that alternative crops that dont do as well are not worth continuing with. This isnt always the case. What they need is to be paid for the 20 billion-billion in resources being plundered that would other wise build technologically advanced cities for the two billion africans who will soon be living there, and given two seats on a six seat security council so that no once can come along and take what is theirs withouth having to fight the United nations for it. Charcoal bands in the soil retain water and liquid fertilizers longer allowing crops to function at higher temperatures than tose coping with dehydrated clay topsoils.
What about natural selection? Assuming the seed for the next year's crop comes from the current crop, the plants that survive and produce seed are the ones best able to grow in current conditions.
@CSX321: This is farming, not "nature." So there is no system of natural selection at work - these farmers are working with strains of maize developed for the immediate climate. And they need crops for the following year. No time to wait for their current strain to evolve, if indeed it evolves at all and doesn't just die out. They need new strains that are easily available in neighboring countries.
@Annalee Newitz: Yes, I'm familiar with farming, living in the heart of the Midwest and having a father who worked for the Department of Agriculture for over 30 years.
I meant to imply that cultivation of selected crops (which is, after all, what crop farming is) has been working pretty well for several thousand years. I expect it will continue to work pretty well. It's not evolution, but simple varietal seed selection, which doesn't necessarily take more than one year.
@CSX321: I guess what I'm trying to say is that since the climate is likely to change from year to year, the seeds that survived last year may not work the following year.
@allocater: I thought so too until I saw an old Cosmos rerun. I have a bamboo stem is a glass of water and it keeps growing.
Water provides hydrogen and oxygen moloucules, and atmospheric gasses provide alot of the rest. Considering much of a plant is carbohydrates, I can see how its (generally) done. Thanks, dead Carl Sagan!
@NotChoinski: yes, but was the water in the glass distilled water? and how can plants suck stuff out of the atmosphere if they are 'imprisoned' in a green house?
@allocater: Not distilled. There are even some pepples at the bottom, but I think thats for anchorage.
I doubt the air inside a nondescript desert warehouse is any different from the air outside it. It 'breathes' (or absorbs) Atmospheric carbon, and probably nitrogen, which probably accounts for the vast majority of elements it needs for its organic compunds.
Cellulose, sugar, alcohol are all the same three atoms in different combinations.
@crashedpc: Well, let's see...the desert is a pretty good environment for preserving things like meat, so...I'd say 1,000 villagers for five years or 100 for fifty years. Mmmm...vintage Sand Worm meat. "You know, 2009 was a great year for Sand Worms. They all have that oaky-asparagus-y afterbite." I'm guessing their new favorite cookbook would be How to Eat Fried Worms.
@crashedpc: dude, do you know how fucked up you would be? I mean those little makers can pack a real astral-projection-esque high that can bake the brain. I'm just sayin. Better put some [www.baconsalt.com] on it.
can't we just do something like this in Mexico? then we have a lot more control and could just supply free electricity for North, Central and South America!
@dsmeek36: Who's this "we" that needs so much control? Is electricity consumption all about the US, then? Especially when talking about a source that would provide electricity to the whole world? And hell, then why Mexico? Why not Texas or Arizona? You know, places that used to be Mexico? (Although since Texas is apparently seceding, better not put it there.) Though personally, I like corpore-metal's idea of a more decentralized system. Aren't they building a solar collection tower in Australia?
Whoa! That seawater greenhouse is TOTALLY in ACTION and EXCITING.
*stares at drab building in the middle of the desert*
Kidding aside, that sounds interesting. But, uh, if 90,000 km^2 of desert can generate all of our electricity, why hasn't it been funded like, yesterday?? Get on with it!
How can a unit of area equal a unit of length? It's 90,000 square kilometers.
You are misreading what 300 by 300 kilometers means. That's not 300 square kilometers. 300 by 300 is telling us that the area is 90,000 square kilometers. Nothing personal, but I don't think I'll let you do my taxes next year.
Yes, you're misreading it. "By" means "multiply the first number with the second number to get the area in square units." In other words you apply the word "square" after you do the calculation, not before like you're doing.
The same applies for cubic units. A volume of 100 by 100 by 100 meters equals 1,000,000 cubic meters.
This is pretty basic stuff. I suggest you consult Wikipedia or the search engines for some pages about how this arithmetic works.
@turniptable: when finding an area both the numbers AND the units must be multiplied so 300km by 300km is 300^2 km^2 or 90,000 km^2. 300km^2 does not equal 900000 km because km^2 is a unit of area and km is a unit of distance.
@turniptable: Price. All manner of gee-whiz design concepts turn out to be too expensive for what you get to bother doing. (Although not all of them, of course.) Sooner or later, you have to bring in the guys with the Excel spreadsheets-- and if they say "No", game over.
The real question with the "seawater greenhouse in action in the Oman desert" isn't whether it looks as cool as the beautiful CGI illustration, but whether or not it's profitable. If it is, there's a chance.
@szielins: Rather than profitable, I'd say "viable." If this plan turns out to be more cost-effective than current efforts at farming in Africa, charities may take the reigns.
That still leaves the possibility that it's not cost-effective, of course.
@turniptable: after transmission loss i'm sure the area required would be much much larger. then there's the danger of placing 100% of the world's electricity production in the middle of the desert in africa.
@Triplanetary: A good way to look at it. And getting charity NGOs involved would help get the first few built, iron out some of the bugs.
It's worth bearing in mind that the whole "90000 km^2 of the Sahara" thing was illustrative-- it doesn't have to be the Sahara, or a single 90000 km^2 installation. Any otherwise unused sunny coastal desert is a potential site, and things only have to make economic sense for that particular location. California might be a bit too overpopulated at this point for this, but Baja California sure isn't-- and the power grids are already linked.
@szielins: There's plenty of room in the SoCal desert. But the government keeps taking it off the table. The Bureau of Land Management, which manages most of the land, is tasked with resource utilization. But Senators Feinstein and Boxer have introduced bills in the past six months that take almost all of the remaining BLM land in SoCal off the table, designating it as wilderness preserve. This is frustrating because there is already hundreds of thousands of acres already in a natural preserved state in Joshua Tree National Park and other State Parks.
@No,Comma_GitEmSteveDave: "The army worms are actually genetically modified superinsects that Liberia is using to take over the world! Only a world weary man and his spunky teenage daughter can save us now by using a metric fuckton of magnifying glasses and a sunny day! What a twist!"
i remember when i was but a wee Bootknife, there was this crazy 'Ladybug Summer', where my ol' pop's shop was completely infested with the polka-dotted bastards. he continuously harvested them with his shop-vac until it would clog (this was a chronic occurrence) and he would have to unload a good three inch thick by, say, thirty inch in diameter cake of solid ladybugs from the vac's reservoir. he did this at least three or four times throughout the season. than as the weather got colder, the bugs left, and we never did see another swarm like that... bugs are weird.
06/17/09
Thomas Jefferson was a pretty cool dude, other than the slave thing.
06/17/09
06/17/09
06/17/09
During the Revolutionary War, the American long grain rice crop had been pillaged by English troops, and after the war the remaining stocks of short grained rice did not sell well on the global market.
Italy had tasty and valuable long grain rice, but seed stocks were banned for export, under penalty of death. Jefferson "toured" a northern Italian farm with a jacket made without bottom seams in the pockets. When no one was looking, he simply scooped up handfuls of Italy's genetic property, and dumped the loot in his coat. He was invited down to Rome, but feigned illness and high tailed it back to France. The seed stocks were shipped home, and there you have it.
Thats right, the early American economy, founded on genetic piracy!
06/17/09
06/17/09
Charcoal bands in the soil retain water and liquid fertilizers longer allowing crops to function at higher temperatures than tose coping with dehydrated clay topsoils.
06/17/09
06/17/09
06/17/09
06/17/09
I meant to imply that cultivation of selected crops (which is, after all, what crop farming is) has been working pretty well for several thousand years. I expect it will continue to work pretty well. It's not evolution, but simple varietal seed selection, which doesn't necessarily take more than one year.
06/17/09
06/17/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
Water provides hydrogen and oxygen moloucules, and atmospheric gasses provide alot of the rest. Considering much of a plant is carbohydrates, I can see how its (generally) done. Thanks, dead Carl Sagan!
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
I doubt the air inside a nondescript desert warehouse is any different from the air outside it. It 'breathes' (or absorbs) Atmospheric carbon, and probably nitrogen, which probably accounts for the vast majority of elements it needs for its organic compunds.
Cellulose, sugar, alcohol are all the same three atoms in different combinations.
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
"Kid, you're gonna have to eat 15 sand worms in 15 days."
"What the fuck? Fuck you."
04/24/09
04/24/09
"Kid, you high."
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
*stares at drab building in the middle of the desert*
Kidding aside, that sounds interesting. But, uh, if 90,000 km^2 of desert can generate all of our electricity, why hasn't it been funded like, yesterday?? Get on with it!
04/24/09
And Yeah, this should happen.
04/24/09
Um, no, it's 90,000 square kilometers. 300 times 300 equals 90,000.
Personally I'd rather have the solar energy plants scattered as diffusely around the world as possible. Concentration has drawbacks.
04/24/09
The problem is that you keep putting the square at the end. 300km² = 90000km. not 90000km².
04/24/09
Hey, what happens in the nondescript desert greenhouse STAYS in the nondescript desert greenhouse.
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
????
How can a unit of area equal a unit of length? It's 90,000 square kilometers.
You are misreading what 300 by 300 kilometers means. That's not 300 square kilometers. 300 by 300 is telling us that the area is 90,000 square kilometers. Nothing personal, but I don't think I'll let you do my taxes next year.
04/24/09
04/24/09
I'm misreading it?
300km X 300km does not equal 300km² somehow?
explain this.
04/24/09
Just use any calculator.
Enter in 300X300.
Now Enter in 300, then hit the x² button.
What number do you get?
04/24/09
A 3km x 3km area = 9 km^2.
CORP! I NEED YOUR HELP EXPLAINING THIS IN A CALM FASHION BEFORE I 'SPLODE
04/24/09
Am I being trolled? Someone take me away!
04/24/09
Yes, you're misreading it. "By" means "multiply the first number with the second number to get the area in square units." In other words you apply the word "square" after you do the calculation, not before like you're doing.
The same applies for cubic units. A volume of 100 by 100 by 100 meters equals 1,000,000 cubic meters.
This is pretty basic stuff. I suggest you consult Wikipedia or the search engines for some pages about how this arithmetic works.
04/24/09
04/24/09
Ok, i understand that 300km X 300km = 300km^2.
300km X 300km ≠90000km^2
04/24/09
04/24/09
And please, don't insult me. You are agreeing with what I am saying. it is not 90,000km^2.
90,000km^2 = 90000km X 90000km.
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
*hug*
I love you.
04/24/09
04/24/09
Gladly :D
Boas, it was already explained. I had the units messed up.
04/24/09
What a drab greenhouse, huh??
04/24/09
ummmmm.... LETS DO THIS.
04/24/09
04/24/09
04/24/09
The real question with the "seawater greenhouse in action in the Oman desert" isn't whether it looks as cool as the beautiful CGI illustration, but whether or not it's profitable. If it is, there's a chance.
04/24/09
That still leaves the possibility that it's not cost-effective, of course.
04/24/09
04/24/09
Hey crashed, this one's for you! :P
04/24/09
04/24/09
It's worth bearing in mind that the whole "90000 km^2 of the Sahara" thing was illustrative-- it doesn't have to be the Sahara, or a single 90000 km^2 installation. Any otherwise unused sunny coastal desert is a potential site, and things only have to make economic sense for that particular location. California might be a bit too overpopulated at this point for this, but Baja California sure isn't-- and the power grids are already linked.
04/24/09
01/29/09
[www.911twenty.com]
01/29/09
01/29/09
01/29/09
01/29/09