airship - io9

posts about #airship more →
Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
Live Out Your Airship Fantasies in Zeppelin-Shaped Hotel
Zeppelins Transport You To Your Floating Island Hotel

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

Kishi
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
Importantly, this picture matches with Kenneth Hite's Rule: "Alternative Universes tend to have more Zeppelins." #airship
Reply

Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment Kishi was starred Kishi was unstarred

reddingofish
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
I would like to read a book about what it would have been like if the Europeans had made it to North America and the natives already had guns and tech at about the 19th century level. I don't think it would have been so easy. More like what happend in China. #airship
Reply

reddingofish was starred reddingofish was unstarred

PSac
10/29/09

@reddingofish: That's more realistic than the picture. If North America was that technologically advanced, wouldn't it make sense that settlers would've gone to (and maybe conquered) Europe? #airship
Reply

PSac was starred PSac was unstarred

Althestane
10/29/09

@PSac: Well, you'd have to take into account how an advanced Native American culture would operate. I'm not labeling them all as peace-loving peoples (goodness knows many were the opposite) but I don't imagine that trans-oceanic conquest and colonization would have been in the cards. #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness promoted this comment Althestane was starred Althestane was unstarred

Sunshineyness
10/29/09

@Althestane: At the end of the day the Native North American people didn't have the concept of land ownership so how could they go anywhere and "conquer"? #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

The_Sporean_Bob
10/29/09

@Sunshineyness: but is that necessarily what they would believe were they so advanced? And though they may not believe in owning land, that doesn't mean anything about not owning people, or using them, or taking their goods. #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness promoted this comment The_Sporean_Bob was starred The_Sporean_Bob was unstarred

Sunshineyness
10/29/09

@The_Sporean_Bob: I guess that's true. I was thinking conquering in the very western sense I think (claiming that land is physically yours). That doesn't exclude taking people, food, supples, etc. But would they have stayed? Governed? It's very difficult to say because the core concepts of their culture were so different than the Europeans even when comparing them at the time of equal technologies. #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

1Grand_Marquis
10/29/09

@Sunshineyness: That's only because they weren't at a stage where economics had risen to the forefront of their philosophical views. The idea of ownership can only be derived from that. They were getting close though, when settlers first arrived. The concept of alliance was being utilized - which requires a tangible distinction of tribes in order to work - and the concept of sovereignty was in its early stages as well. #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness promoted this comment 1Grand_Marquis was starred 1Grand_Marquis was unstarred

Sunshineyness
10/29/09

@1Grand_Marquis: I guess than the better question would have been what if the colonists arrived about 100 years later? Would they tribes have had alliances formed that would have enabled them to avoid being defeated by the Europeans?

(Also, upon some quick searches I'm finding interesting articles on how the issue of Native Americans and land ownership is an historically sticky one...) #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

Trystero
10/29/09

@Sunshineyness: That assumes that cultural devolopment follows some positivistic path. It's not like they were a few turns away from researching "Nationalism" in Civilization IV. And as you've seen from your google searches, simply stating that "Native Americans" didn't have notions of land ownership oversimplifies things a great deal.

Now I'm about to be a bad commenter by not looking up what I'm about to say: Regardless of whether or not "Native Americans" (I keep using quotes because European settlers encountered several different tribes) had notions of land ownership, they were organized enough to push a pitiful band of settlers into the sea. #airship
Reply

Trystero was starred Trystero was unstarred

The_Sporean_Bob
10/30/09

@Sunshineyness: Possibly. It really depends on which tribe went over there, I guess. The Inca, for example, most often used hegemonic methods to slowly absorb other tribes into their own, so they probably would have stayed and indoctrinated the Europeans in their ways, made them speak their languages, and build some roads. Who knows, really? #airship
Reply

The_Sporean_Bob was starred The_Sporean_Bob was unstarred

Vulcan Has No Moon
10/31/09

@PSac: Who the heck would want Europe during that era? Other than a few bright spots of civility amongst the upper classes (Renaissance art, science, literature) most of Europe was a cold, over-crowded, plague-ridden hell hole. The Advanced First Nations may have sent a few scouts to Europe to see what the place is like, they surely would have returned home disappointed and carrying quite a few parasites. I don't see the flu and small pox wiping out hoards of the Advanced First Nations folks since they obviously would have invented anti-virals, antibiotics, and vaccines by then, but still the germ-ridden unwashed Europeans probably wouldn't have been on any interest to them. #airship
Reply

Vulcan Has No Moon was starred

MonkeyT
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
Smallpox, the sequel. #airship
Reply

MonkeyT was starred MonkeyT was unstarred

Fedaykin
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
Instead of turkey and corn, the natives introduced them to bagels. #airship
Reply

TemporalSword promoted this comment Fedaykin was starred Fedaykin was unstarred

TemporalSword
10/29/09

@Fedaykin: Bagels and mochiattos. #airship
Reply

TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred

lazyeight
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
Did you happen to notice the flags on the ship?
This isn't the MF II, it's the HMS/USS Liet-Kynes (serves two masters). #airship
Reply

AmishJohn promoted this comment lazyeight was starred lazyeight was unstarred

AmishJohn
10/29/09

@lazyeight: So, it has a hold full of Sappho juice? #airship
Reply

AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred

lazyeight
10/29/09

@AmishJohn: I'm thinkin' whale fur. #airship
Reply

lazyeight was starred lazyeight was unstarred

Rumtum
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
The Pilgrims did not actually land in NYC, they landed at Plymouth, MA, where they were warmly received by their eventual victims and taught how to feed themselves and hunt and bathe ... okay, I lied about that last part; Pilgrims didn't bathe much. #airship
Reply

Rumtum was starred Rumtum was unstarred

MissBuckyC
10/29/09

@Rumtum: Don't forget they landed in Provincetown first, but there were already too many tourists, they couldn't find a room in any B & B, so they moved on. #airship
Reply

allium promoted this comment MissBuckyC was starred MissBuckyC was unstarred

Althestane
10/29/09

@Rumtum: not quite so warmly received actually. Pilgrims chose to settle on land that the natives knew was worthless and plagued with periodic disease. I remember reading that they were allowed to stay because native leadership found it politically expedient for some reason. They fully expected them to die out or be absorbed into native societies. Little did they know that the Pilgrims brought pigs, bees and rats with them. #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness promoted this comment Althestane was starred Althestane was unstarred

Sunshineyness
10/29/09

@Althestane: They were also not all "pilgrims" on the Mayflower. There were other types of settlers on that boat as well, not all of them were fleeing persecution. #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

The_Sporean_Bob
10/29/09

@Althestane: they weren't received at all at first. They landed where all the natives had died out due to the smallpox epidemic brought by the Jamestown settlers that had raged up the coastline. The only reason they survived at first was because they raided the graves of dead natives (Amerindians in that area buried their dead with food, apparently). Then Squanto (Tisquantum, which basically means 'Wrath of God' in his native language) comes along and can speak english, cause he's been brought to Europe and back twice, and helps them survive (mostly cause his tribe is completely dead). I seem to remember that Massasoit didn't pay much attention to them besides allying with them, cause they were more worried about Mohican/Mohawk invasion after most of the Wampanoag had died out.

All information comes from 1491 by Charles C. Mann #airship
Reply

Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment The_Sporean_Bob was starred The_Sporean_Bob was unstarred

firstofnormalin
10/29/09

@Sunshineyness:
The Mayflower people were just about evenly divided between the religious Separatists and the traders, with a few hired guns (Miles Standish, et al). They first tried to land at P-Town, but couldn't navigate the shoals; their next landing was at Nausset, where they pillaged a few graves for souvenirs and stole the winter corn supply. Finally they (probably didn't) land on Plymouth Rock, where my 11th G-G-grandfather was born.
Generally the Puritans and Pilgrims traded with the natives, except for liquor and firearms.
They don't tell you the story about the Pilgrim who was hanged as a habitual criminal or the guy who "liked" sheep.

ROW THAT SLOOP BILLINGS, YOU BASTARD! YAAA! THE NEXT TIME THEY TURN THE MAYFLOWER 2, YOU BETTER INVITE ME!

(Sorry. It's the ancestral family grudge coming out again...) #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness promoted this comment firstofnormalin was starred firstofnormalin was unstarred

Sunshineyness
10/29/09

@firstofnormalin: Now I think that story would be so adorable if you had a bunch of gade-schoolers putting that on.

(I was the kid in the Thanksgiving pageant in 3rd grade complaining that it wasn't historically accurate.) #airship
Reply

Sunshineyness was starred Sunshineyness was unstarred

firstofnormalin
10/29/09

@Althestane:
(As long as I'm rattling on here...)
"Die out or be absorbed" Remember what happened to the trading colony in what would later be Maine, around 1615 or so. All guys. The natives let them starve and later bought them as slaves. Do believe the Pilgrims had to go rescue them.
The natives were no nice guys. They kept slaves and had a widespread slaving network, the other natives they captured they tortured to death, they cleared land and hunted by setting wildfires and in the Midwest they set up buffalo jumps and let a good percentage of the meat just lie there and rot. Ecologists not them.
The pilgrims had steel; that was like having the atomic bomb, especially since around 1600 the Seneca started pushing into MA/RI and taking over from the other tribes. #airship
Reply

Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment firstofnormalin was starred firstofnormalin was unstarred

Althestane
10/30/09

@firstofnormalin: all true! Though in the end, the settlers didn't require steel to completely dominate the native's lands. There was a great National Geographic article that basically outlined that the settlers unknowingly waged ecological and biological warfare on the native population. The east coast tribes had a fairly sophisticated agricultural system with crop rotations and leaving fields fallow, though it was not something that westerners would recognize. The 'Pilgrims' agricultural system came in and destroyed the balanced NA system. They also brought fruit trees and non-native plants that choked out existing vegetation and the humble, imported bees were made quite busy pollinating and spreading the European ecology instead of native species. Westerners literally changed the earth under their feet and the entire habitat around them. #airship
Reply

Althestane was starred Althestane was unstarred

firstofnormalin
10/31/09

@Althestane:
all true. "literally changed the earth under their feet" Quite literally--they brought earthworms into North America. I've heard some talk that some of Ye Olde New England Stonne Walls might have been built by the natives, which implies year-round settlement, as do the ossuaries on Cape Cod. It's also possible that smallpox was carried into the "New World" by European fisherman much before the Pilgrim/Puritan landed (the story about Lord Jeff Amherst and the smallpox blankets isn't true).

More than likely if the Glorious Rebellion hadn't happened and a lot of people went to "Northern Virginia" (New England) because of the 30 Years War, the Puritans would have been driven out. Believe L. Sprague DeCamp wrote about that scienerio in one of the Wheels of If stories. #airship
Reply

firstofnormalin was starred firstofnormalin was unstarred

firstofnormalin
10/31/09

@Sunshineyness:
Yeah, but you'd lose half the cast from starvation during the first winter.
And watch out or that one Pilgrim kid who got fined for fornication a few years later and bore such a grudge that he never joined the church until he was on his deathbed (no names need be mentioned) #airship
Reply

firstofnormalin was starred firstofnormalin was unstarred

OW-Holmes:Bringer of Fear
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
Mayflower 2:Electric Boogaloo #airship
Reply

TemporalSword
10/29/09

In reply to Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor
What if they traveled forward in time, and killed Obama's dad, but he still became president anyway, and there was lots of lens flare? #airship
Reply

TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred

HowIsYourFlat
10/29/09

@TemporalSword: You haven't heard of multiverse and branching timelines? #airship
Reply

TemporalSword promoted this comment HowIsYourFlat was starred HowIsYourFlat was unstarred

TemporalSword
10/29/09

@HowIsYourFlat: Is multiverse like a "multi-pass"? And the only branching I know of is the tree in my front yard.

Wait, I just thought of something: what if it's happened exactly like this already? I think I just blew my own mind.
Reply

Edited by TemporalSword at 10/29/09 6:34 AM TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred

AngryEddy
10/29/09

@TemporalSword: It'll only be worth it if Captain Christopher Jones shouts "FIRE EVERYTHING!!!" at some point... #airship
Reply

AngryEddy was starred AngryEddy was unstarred

AmishJohn
10/29/09

@TemporalSword: "Leelou Dallas Multipass. Mull-Tee-Pass." #airship
Reply

AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred

AmishJohn
10/29/09

@TemporalSword: All of this has happened before, and will happen again. #airship
Reply

AmishJohn was starred AmishJohn was unstarred

TemporalSword
10/29/09

@AmishJohn: Break the cycle!

(Also, nice catch with the multi-pass, wasn't sure anyone would get it.) #airship
Reply

TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred

Chip Skylark of Space
10/29/09

@AmishJohn: #airship
Reply

Grey_Area
09/02/09

In reply to Live Out Your Airship Fantasies in Zeppelin-Shaped Hotel
Oh, the hospitality!!
Reply

Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred

Evdor
09/02/09

@Grey_Area: No need to comment further, ladies and gentlemen. Grey Area's got you covered.
Reply

Evdor was starred Evdor was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
09/02/09

@Evdor: Although really, could he have at least whipped up a photochop? Maybe the hindenberg spilling cupcakes and fried chicken?
Reply

Pope John Peeps II was starred

Evdor
09/02/09

@Pope John Peeps II: Or for those of us with truly sick senses of humor, a simple caption bubble that reads. "Jesus, doesn't this room have air conditioning? It's freaking HOT as hell in here!"

...I'm a bad man.
Reply

Evdor was starred Evdor was unstarred

Grey_Area
09/02/09

@Pope John Peeps II: Nope. Laaazy.
Reply

Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred

crashedpc - Haifisch
09/02/09

@Grey_Area: See, that's the problem. People just doing drive-by witticisms, not even bothering to follow up on their genius by substantiating it with some sort of tangible visual proof. LAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZZZY
Reply

NerD: Blattella
09/02/09

@Grey_Area: Too soon, man, way too soon.
Reply

NerD: Blattella was starred NerD: Blattella was unstarred

jbq
09/02/09

@Grey_Area: Talk about zing.. I can't believe that didn't even occur to me before I read your comment. Well played, sir, well played.
Reply

jbq was starred jbq was unstarred

The Curse of Millhaven
09/02/09

In reply to Live Out Your Airship Fantasies in Zeppelin-Shaped Hotel
Bring your own hydrogen.
Reply

GodofMonkeys
09/02/09

In reply to Live Out Your Airship Fantasies in Zeppelin-Shaped Hotel
A zepplin hotel? So in an alternate reality, what would it be?
Reply

jbq promoted this comment GodofMonkeys was starred GodofMonkeys was unstarred

jbq
09/02/09

@GodofMonkeys: ..built of bricks..? Forget it, I've got nothing...
Reply

jbq was starred jbq was unstarred

lightninglouie
11/17/08

In reply to Zeppelins Transport You To Your Floating Island Hotel
Oh, the Spongmonkeys are gonna love this.
Reply

lightninglouie was starred lightninglouie was unstarred

Chiper
11/17/08

In reply to Zeppelins Transport You To Your Floating Island Hotel
I am immediately reminded of one of the opening scenes in Diamond Age, where a victorian birthday party is conveyed via blimp to an island of flash-grown coral.
Reply

Chiper was starred Chiper was unstarred

Grey_Area
11/17/08

@Chiper: All the children play with artificial centaurs and baby dinosaurs while the parents are doing the Electric Slide in top hats and crinoline skirts.

So sweet.
Reply

Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred

reddingofish
11/17/08

In reply to Zeppelins Transport You To Your Floating Island Hotel
What happens when James Bond has a gun fight inside?
Reply

reddingofish was starred reddingofish was unstarred

Gann
11/17/08

@reddingofish: People die. Women get pleasured. The world is made of awesome.
Reply

Gann was starred Gann was unstarred

Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

#airship

io9

SUBSCRIBE TO io9

Airship Greets a Time-Traveling Mayflower in New York Harbor

Live Out Your Airship Fantasies in Zeppelin-Shaped Hotel

Zeppelins Transport You To Your Floating Island Hotel

Login

Reset Password

Register

Submit Your Comment