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San Francisco, 4:37 PM
Tue Nov 10
27 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Malfunktion v2 Malfunktion v2
    09/28/09

    In reply to Powerful 3D Imaging Tools Reveal Ancient Secrets
    I can only imagine the lead blanket the crew has to wear
     Reply
    Malfunktion v2 was starred Malfunktion v2 was unstarred
    Image of Chip Overclock Chip Overclock
    09/27/09

    In reply to Powerful 3D Imaging Tools Reveal Ancient Secrets
    "synchrotron scanners that can produce beams a trillion times the brightness of normal X-ray machines"

    I don't suppose there's any chance you could turn one of these into a "death ray"?

    Just askin'.
     Reply
    Chip Overclock was starred Chip Overclock was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    09/27/09

    @Chip Overclock: I guess they already are. The cancer you develop if exposed may take a while, but whatever...
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of botanicidal botanicidal
    09/27/09

    @Dirk Anger: Considering the horror stories about people 'accidentally' crossing into the path of an X-ray beam used to detect fault-lines in concrete at Nuclear Power facilities, I'm pretty sure it's within our capacities. My friend told me a story about a guy who did cross the "Do not cross line" where an X-ray scanner was scanning... and he ended having a massive burned out hole in his mid-section as a result. Not pretty.
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment botanicidal was starred botanicidal was unstarred
    Image of Discodave: R.O.A.C.H. M.O.T.E.L. Discodave: R.O.A.C.H. M.O.T.E.L.
    09/27/09

    In reply to Powerful 3D Imaging Tools Reveal Ancient Secrets
    "CT scanning gets around this thorny problem by showering the artifacts with highly focused X-rays in quantities that would kill a human"

    Well, looks like John Hammond's going to be shit out of luck if they find anything worth cloning...
     Reply
    Discodave: R.O.A.C.H. M.O.T.E.L. was starred Discodave: R.O.A.C.H. M.O.T.E.L. was unstarred
    Image of crashedpc - Haifisch crashedpc - Haifisch
    09/27/09

    In reply to Powerful 3D Imaging Tools Reveal Ancient Secrets
    "Well.... extensive analysis has shown that your priceless fossil is in fact, mammoth poop."
     Reply
    crashedpc - Haifisch was starred crashedpc - Haifisch was unstarred
    Image of Dany_J Dany_J
    09/27/09

    @crashedpc - unrein: That's a coprolite to you bub
     Reply
    gorehound promoted this comment Dany_J was starred Dany_J was unstarred
    Image of gorehound gorehound
    09/27/09

    @Dany_J: Maybe they shold of called it a poopalloticide
     Reply
    gorehound was starred gorehound was unstarred
    Image of capnrob capnrob
    09/27/09

    @crashedpc - unrein: It happens. In fact, it happens so much that I made a coffee mug for my wife with two messages on it: on one side "It's a concretion." and on the other side "Okay, okay, maybe it's mine slag", those being the two most common "fossils" in the area we were living.

    That said, this article is pretty wrong on many fronts:

    There are plenty of machines out there that can do it - the vast majority of them DO support only small critters (it's called microCT, and it's more common than you think, because such machines are also used for extant biological research). There's three or four of'em on my campus RIGHT NOW. The synchrotron stuff just gives you higher energies - which you don't *need* for a huge chunk of fossil research. There may be fifty or so machines in the world that are *advertised* as doing this - although I really think the number there is higher, too - but we've actually taken fossils down to our local medical, human-grade CT machine to get scanned. Worked fine.

    Secondly, you can do pretty big fossils: you just have to use aircraft-grade CT scanners. Sue, the Tyrannosaurus Rex at Chicago's Field Museum got CT scanned quite some time ago (at Boeing, I believe), and Sue ain't small.

    Thirdly, this isn't "promising", or cutting edge, or anything. The promise has been fulfilled - paleo's been doing this for *years*. Take a look at the DigiMorph archive ([digimorph.org]) Or, heck, either the below link, or this ( [www.youtube.com] ), which is a rendering I did for a talk at a recent paleo meeting.
     Reply
    capnrob was starred capnrob was unstarred
    Image of Mattoo Mattoo
    09/27/09

    @capnrob: Hey Cap'n, how might one get hold of those juicy digital CT models? There's not much 3D data available on the digimorph site, it's mostly little movies.

    I'm an illustrator by trade and use Modo extensively. I'd love to do some models and animations based on accurate data for once!
     Reply
    capnrob promoted this comment Mattoo was starred Mattoo was unstarred
    Image of Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
    09/27/09

    @capnrob: + many many for the info and the links. Wish there was some way to pin this comment up top.
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of capnrob capnrob
    09/27/09

    @Mattoo: Well, that's the thing. CT data comes out, pretty much, AS those movies; you get a stack of bitmaps (X and Y data in each bitmap, with Z being the bitmaps when piled together.) Think of the movies as a big archive of voxel data that, just coincidentally, you can see in QuickTime.

    You need to jump through a few hoops to get them working in Modo, but it can be done; what I do will be different, because I have access to a program that you're unlikely to have, but it Can Be Done Anyway (tm).

    What I did to build, say, my eoraptor was take the movie into AfterEffects and dump the movie out as a sequence of TIFFs (had to render'em out on a square background, if memory serves, but that was easy enough to do) again. Then, I knocked on my wife's door and said "Hey, honey? Can you take this stack o' TIFFs and output a .OBJ for me?" and she said "Sure," and that was that, because my wife has a copy of Amira - which is basically Photoshop-for-stacks-of-images - and Modo reads .OBJ just swell.

    (slight digression time: The difficult part of all of the fossil CT stuff is, pretty much, figuring out what's bone and what's not bone: it's very hard to do automatically, because fossils can vary in density hugely. Right now, mostly what you do is use Amira or a similar tool to go through every slice of the CT dataset and tell it "THIS pixel is bone, so keep it, and THAT pixel is rock, so ignore it." It's kind of like having to paint your own Quick Mask for each one of the five hundred slices of the CT scan. It is a) tedious, but b) impossible to give to undergraduates to do because they don't know the anatomy well enough.)

    If you don't have easy access to a $5000 medical imaging analysis program, then you can look into OsiriX ([www.osirix-viewer.com]) and/or Slicer ([www.slicer.org]) - I believe that those two programs, in conjunction, can be persuaded to convert the Stack O'Bitmaps into a mesh file, but I've never bothered to learn how, 'cos I have access to Amira. There are also commercial DICOM-to-mesh tools, but since they're usually bought by the medical community, they're kind of pricey.

    And if you don't have that, you can do what we did before we got our hands on Amira - since the slices are evenly spaced, you can pick one every, say, fifty or so, and insert them into the 3D space as textured polygons or template images or whatever, and build around them. Worked okay. Just remember to look up a bit of head anatomy in an analogous species so you can position and scale the eyes appropriately; that's harder than it sounds.

    Fair warning I: Mostly, what you'll find is small critters or heads. Small critters get CT scanned more than big ones for two reasons: first, they fit into the average scanner, and secondly, they're hella more fragile, and getting them free of the matrix is therefore Even More Fun(tm). You get a lot of heads these days because ear morphology and inside-the-cranium morphology are the current hot areas, just because they've been darn near impossible to get. You won't get a full-body CT scan of a ceratopsian, because we've got enough of them we can just break the dang things open and have a look.

    Fair warning II: For the most part, the CT data sometimes isn't as handy as you might think, because there's this thing called depositional deformation, or, as Bullwinkle might say, "Them dinosaurs got squished!" A fair number of critters undergo deformation during fossilization, and you get, for instance, a skull that's been sheared laterally and squished vertically. You build your model based on that, and it's gonna look like the critter in question had a losing argument with a semi.
     Reply
    capnrob was starred capnrob was unstarred
    Image of capnrob capnrob
    09/27/09

    @Mattoo: In addition, if you like, I can see if my wife will run off an .OBJ or two for you, just so you can play. Lemme know which you're interested in, if any, and I'll ask her when she gets home.
     Reply
    capnrob was starred capnrob was unstarred
    Image of Mattoo Mattoo
    09/28/09

    @capnrob: Thanks for the comprehensive response and it's very kind of you to offer your wife's time like that ;)
    For my purposes detail is not so important, overall proportions are of more interest as I will be wanting to flesh them up (and guestimate where the eyes go and all the other flappy bits of course).

    Squished critters are expected, I've worked from very crude point cloud data in the past.

    It would be great to have that Herrerasaurus skull as an OBJ. That would make a fairly unique dino project for me.

    I understand they are sheered (visible in cross sections) but how much flattening do you believe takes place? Is there a rough average?
    I'd love to talk further if you'd allow. Please email me matt -at- matt-painter.co.uk
    Thank you kindly. Matt
     Reply
    Mattoo was starred Mattoo was unstarred
    Image of Dr Emilio Lizardo Dr Emilio Lizardo
    09/10/09

    In reply to 34,000-Year-Old Twine Woven by Ancient Humans Discovered
    They occupied the cave for thousands of years? I've heard my Georgia relatives say "I's a born her, I's a gonna dies here," but this is ridiculous!
     Reply
    Dr Emilio Lizardo was starred Dr Emilio Lizardo was unstarred
    Image of Jeriba Jeriba
    09/10/09

    In reply to 34,000-Year-Old Twine Woven by Ancient Humans Discovered
    Thus proving the prehistoric origin of those annoying hemp friendship bracelets.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment Jeriba was starred Jeriba was unstarred
    Image of Alexis Alexis
    09/10/09

    In reply to 34,000-Year-Old Twine Woven by Ancient Humans Discovered
    But the Bible told me that God created the first snappy human ensemble 3,000 years ago! I learned that in Science.
     Reply
    Alexis was starred Alexis was unstarred
    Image of 5AMfrenchtoast 5AMfrenchtoast
    09/10/09

    @Alexis Brown: Who needs clothing when you have pet dinosaurs to curl up with at night to stay warm?
     Reply
    5AMfrenchtoast was starred 5AMfrenchtoast was unstarred
    Image of MargaretMoony MargaretMoony
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    Shocking. Another city was built on the same site as another one, an area that has good farming and port access. Who would of thought.
     Reply
    MargaretMoony was starred MargaretMoony was unstarred
    Image of MiriamCadish MiriamCadish
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    Miltary derived technology at work, this tech is used to find things from minefields to mass graves.
     Reply
    Grey_Area promoted this comment MiriamCadish was starred MiriamCadish was unstarred
    Image of HarrisonHizat HarrisonHizat
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    I'm an archaeologist, and I ask myself this question almost on a daily basis... especially how treasured all of our junk will be! On the field, we get overexcited about finding the silliest stuff...
    I'm afraid it'll have to be way more than 1000 years, since everything is much more durable now.
     Reply
    Grey_Area promoted this comment HarrisonHizat was starred HarrisonHizat was unstarred
    Image of Grey_Area Grey_Area
    07/30/09

    @HarrisonHizat: I wonder what your far-flung future colleagues will wake of the sudden reduction of disposable plastic food containers in some regions due to the switch to compostable materials. "What the hell, did they all start eating less?"
     Reply
    Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred
    Image of Roklimber Roklimber
    07/30/09

    @HarrisonHizat: Your comment reminded me of the first Indiana Jones movie, when Belocq tells Indy that a $10 pocket watch buried in the sand for 1000 years would be priceless.
     Reply
    Roklimber was starred Roklimber was unstarred
    Image of NotMandatory NotMandatory
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    Aerial archaeology is pretty amazing, and even much smaller settlements can sometimes be seen quite clearly.

    Here are a few galleries (a mix of personal websites and professional organisations, mostly European):
    http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/aerial-archaeology/aerial-archaeology.htm
    http://www.ohioarchaeology.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&
    http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/arcnat/aerien/en/index.html
    task=view&id=233&Itemid=32
    http://www.armadale.org.uk/archaeologyindex.htm#Photography

    And some short introductions to aerial archaeology:
    http://www.archaeologyexpert.co.uk/AerialArchaeology.html
    http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.1188
    http://www.univie.ac.at/Luftbildarchiv/index.htm#TOC
     Reply
    Grey_Area promoted this comment NotMandatory was starred NotMandatory was unstarred
    Image of Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
    07/30/09

    @NotMandatory: Cool links, thanks!
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of Grey_Area Grey_Area
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    No, no, no! This is clearly a message from the aliens warning us that the upcoming solar storm will turn the Earth's Van Halen Belt into suspenders. This will invert our chakras and make all food taste like Funyuns®.

    The only way to avert the catastrophe is if we all wear pink robes ($49.95 available at my website) on the 9th of October to signify our acceptance of the Spiritual Transcosmic Convergence® as taught by the ascended Tibetan Dolphin Crystal Masters™.

    IT'S BASIC SCIENCE! WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!!
     Reply
    Edited by Grey_Area at 07/30/09 11:45 AM Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred
    Image of TemporalSword TemporalSword
    07/30/09

    @Grey_Area: Yes, my great and wise leader. I shall do as you command. Do you take AMEX?
     Reply
    TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred
    Image of braak braak
    07/30/09

    @Grey_Area: Bullshit, man. I want some Van Halen suspenders.
     Reply
    braak was starred braak was unstarred
    Image of Grey_Area Grey_Area
    07/30/09

    @braak: Fine, don't come crying to me when your chakras start squirting out of your elbows.
     Reply
    Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred
    Image of Grey_Area Grey_Area
    07/30/09

    @TemporalSword: Oh yeah sure, that's a good start. Now get in the van with the others, were gonna hand out flowers at the airport. Then it's back to the compound to perform the Annointed Oil Wrestling and the Washing of the Dozen Sacred BMWs.
     Reply
    Grey_Area was starred Grey_Area was unstarred
    Image of Roklimber Roklimber
    07/30/09

    @Grey_Area: Grey, Grey, have you been talking to raellians lately?
     Reply
    Roklimber was starred Roklimber was unstarred
    Image of I'm Waitin' for Dolemite I'm Waitin' for Dolemite
    07/30/09

    @Grey_Area:

    Your ideas intrigue me sir. Praytell how if one might wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment I'm Waitin' for Dolemite was starred I'm Waitin' for Dolemite was unstarred
    Image of TemporalSword TemporalSword
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    Makes you wonder what outlines of cities today they will find in 1000 years.
     Reply
    Edited by TemporalSword at 07/30/09 11:34 AM TemporalSword was starred TemporalSword was unstarred
    Image of Elizabeth Weinbloom Elizabeth Weinbloom
    07/30/09

    In reply to Aerial Photos of Italian Farms Reveal Outline of An Ancient City
    That's freaking awesome.

    Anyone else hoping the streets would turn out to spell UNDER ME?
     Reply
    Elizabeth Weinbloom was starred Elizabeth Weinbloom was unstarred
    Image of RandomFrequentFlierDent RandomFrequentFlierDent
    07/30/09

    @Elizabeth Weinbloom: Someone needs to tell Eustace and Jill, the lazy, easily distracted punks.
     Reply
    RandomFrequentFlierDent was starred RandomFrequentFlierDent was unstarred
    Image of Elizabeth Weinbloom Elizabeth Weinbloom
    07/30/09

    @RandomFrequentFlierDent: Srsly. If a giant undead lion with a god-complex told ME to remember something, you better believe I would.
     Reply
    Elizabeth Weinbloom was starred Elizabeth Weinbloom was unstarred
    Image of RavenNemain RavenNemain
    07/30/09

    @RandomFrequentFlierDent: Any day with a random Silver Chair reference is a good day.
     Reply
    Elizabeth Weinbloom promoted this comment RavenNemain was starred RavenNemain was unstarred
    Image of Pope John Peeps II Pope John Peeps II
    07/30/09

    @Elizabeth Weinbloom: Is it a complex if you really are God?

    Also, I would probably say undead celestial dire lion. haha nerd it up nerds.
     Reply
    Pope John Peeps II was starred Pope John Peeps II was unstarred
    Image of Belabras ate my dingo! Belabras ate my dingo!
    07/30/09

    @Pope John Peeps II:
    Actually, I think the undying template would fit better than undead.

    You can't out nerd me sir.
     Reply
    Belabras ate my dingo! was starred Belabras ate my dingo! was unstarred
    Image of RandomFrequentFlierDent RandomFrequentFlierDent
    07/30/09

    @Belabras: Technically Aslan got his Jesus on in The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe when he sacrificed himself for Edmund’s screw ups. So if you’ve ever made a reference to zombie Jesus (and really, who hasn‘t?) then you’re going to have to go with Zombie (aka undead) Aslan as well.
     Reply
    RandomFrequentFlierDent was starred RandomFrequentFlierDent was unstarred
    Image of Mathmos Mathmos
    07/29/09

    In reply to Global Warming Gave Rise to the Inca Empire
    Bring out yer trolls!, Bring out yer trolls!
     Reply
    Mathmos was starred Mathmos was unstarred
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