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San Francisco, 5:28 PM
Sat Dec 19
18 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of golddiggersof2033 golddiggersof2033
    03:26 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Q: When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like 'Avatar'?

    A: When white people stop paying to watch them.

    (Race and ethnicity aside, I won't be watching Avatar because it looks like overblown pap and the preview alone is migraine-inducing.)
     Reply
    golddiggersof2033 was starred golddiggersof2033 was unstarred
    Image of salthegeek salthegeek
    01:10 PM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    I watched it in IMAX 3D last night my thought are this: It really reminds me of a 60's sci-fi novel like Anne McCaffrey meets Robert A. Heinlein. Which is not a bad thing since sci-fi films have been on a dark streak since Blade Runner ,The Matrix and the whole make it dark and edgy that Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. It's a pure adventure movie and succeeds at that beautifully. The effects and the 3d and be summed up with two words : AMAZING and detailed. At some points the natives looked real , like they are props or a prosthetic. The word that Cameron built is on the level of amazing that Jurassic Park was when it came out. I would love wallpapers of every wide shot of the forest in that movie. The displays on the computers and vehicles in the Imax 3d have depth and you can read every letter on them. One effect was to atrophy Sam Worthington's legs like he was a real paraplegic. The story was really standard and somewhat predictable which works for this. It's its biggest fault but it really doesn't take you out of it, unless your really anal about a thing like that.
     Reply
    Edited by salthegeek at 12/19/09 1:15 PM salthegeek was starred salthegeek was unstarred
    Image of bitgod bitgod
    12:30 PM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    I thought the first hour of 3D was neat. Then their equipment started freezing up, sigh. So haven't seen the rest. I feel like a walking virus, started having computer problems last week too
     Reply
    bitgod was starred bitgod was unstarred
    Image of Wookie1972 Wookie1972
    12:23 PM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    In defense of District 9, I think that there are some basic assumptions that people are making.

    1) That the Nigerians represent all black people. They definitely don't. Admittedly, there could be more sympathetic Africans, and the few there are could be arguably tokens, but the Nigerians represent the Nigerians.

    2) That oppressed people are unified in their oppression. This has never been the case, and all oppressors have used the strategy of "divide and conquer." White indentured servants in the colonies were told that they should be fortunate that they weren't African slaves. Clearly, the Africans in D9 were capitalizing on the fact that there was a new group of "minorities" to push around.

    3) That Wikus, though the protagonist, is supposed to be completely sympathetic. He is a very complicated character. I read somewhere that Wikus' last name is supposed to be a kind of joke name in South Africa, kind of the "dumb redneck"stereotype. Wikus is basically a Michael Scott character. He's supposed to be awkward, clumsy, and not very bright.
     Reply
    Wookie1972 was starred Wookie1972 was unstarred
    Image of Bill-Lee Bill-Lee
    10:40 AM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    "This is also the basic story of Dune, where a member of the white royalty flees his posh palace on the planet Dune to become leader of the worm-riding native Fremen"

    Frank Herbert subverts this basic story by making the Fremen prophecy about an outsider becoming the Mahdi a partial fabrication built around ideas and patterns planted by the Bene Gesserit in order to protect their members should they be trapped on Arrakis. Paul and Lady Jessica knowingly take advantage of the prophecy for their own survival and later Paul uses it for his revenge. Herbert has said of heroes, ""The bottom line of the Dune trilogy is: beware of heroes. Much better [to]rely on your own judgment, and your own mistakes." In the second book, "heroic" Paul has become an ineffectual leader whose followers have gone out of control launching a jihad in his name that kills billions. Instead of dealing with the consequences of his actions, he ends by wandering into the desert to die like a Fremen -- only to return years later as a crazy prophet mocking his own empire.

    The Fremen aren't truly native to Arrakis, they are descendants of colonists, the Zensunni wanderers who were exiled from the more civilized parts of the universe. Unlike the later colonists they adapted to the desert environment rather than wanting force to the environment to adapt to humans.
     Reply
    Bill-Lee was starred Bill-Lee was unstarred
    Image of Wookie1972 Wookie1972
    02:56 PM

    @Bill-Lee: My God, Herbert's stuff is complicated. Sure he didn't indulge in the melange himself?
     Reply
    Wookie1972 was starred Wookie1972 was unstarred
    Image of jayntampa jayntampa
    10:34 AM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Any article that calls out an entire race is automatic fail in my book, I'm sorry. One of the biggest problems in race relations is people generalizing just by the color of skin ... and that what this whole article is about.

    The fact is, I think you got it wrong. This story is really about the outsider becoming the insider -- that's the archetype at play, it just works really well in colonization stories because the sides are so well defined and it's easy to make the colonizers the bad guys. However, it works in crime stories (undercover agent/criminals), political stories (undercover agent/radicals), sci-fi (undercover agent/aliens), and so on.

    The reason these stories are told is because the archetype is powerful ... it's just this particular flavor is so easy to do.
     Reply
    Edited by jayntampa at 12/19/09 10:39 AM jayntampa was starred jayntampa was unstarred
    Image of Cam/ron Cam/ron
    08:55 AM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    I admire the blood and sweat that Cameron and Weta shed when they created this movie but I can't see "Avatar" being the future of cinema that Jim promised. For one thing, few studios have the excessive production time and money that he enjoyed. Many of the visuals were immaculate sights (I loved the glowing neon plants), but Avatar still resembled a video game more than a movie, I often felt like searching for a seat button to skip the cut scenes and play the game. I was more amazed by Weta's Gollum creation in the LOTR movies since they often gave the impression he was a real, flesh-and-blood creature. I doubt Avatar would stand on both legs when it's released on DVD when it would look more like a PS3 game than ever.
     Reply
    Cam/ron was starred Cam/ron was unstarred
    Image of Klebert L. Hall Klebert L. Hall
    07:52 AM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    "When will whites stop making these movies and start thinking about race in a new way?"

    When people realize the concept of race is a load of BS.

    Alternately, when people start hiring better writers.
    -Kle.
     Reply
    Klebert L. Hall was starred Klebert L. Hall was unstarred
    Image of Pope John Peeps II Pope John Peeps II
    09:24 AM

    @Klebert L. Hall: Oh the CONCEPT OF RACE is a load of BS, eh?

    Cripes, humanity could have saved itself thousands of years of war if only you had been born in a small manger in Bethlehem to a virgin lady bla bla blah..

    signed,
    -Pompous.
     Reply
    Meredith Woerner promoted this comment Pope John Peeps II was starred Pope John Peeps II was unstarred
    Image of Lightice Lightice
    09:30 AM

    @Klebert L. Hall: Well, the biological concept of race is BS. The social concept however, not so much. People react differently to people who look different from themselves, and are likely to identify more with those who look like themselves. This doesn't mean that racism is an inherit necessity, but racial thinking seems to be, unless some racidal changes happen to the concept of humanity itself, either through alien contact, development of AI or rise of transhumanism - and those would be pretty likely to just alter racial thinking into thinking about another distinction.

    The downside of the human mind's tendency to classify everything into compartments, it seems.
     Reply
    Moff promoted this comment Lightice was starred Lightice was unstarred
    Image of firstanointed firstanointed
    07:30 AM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    I saw Avatar last night at an IMAX in 3D with my mother and we thoroughly enjoyed it. It reminded me a lot of two things: seeing Star Wars: Revenge of The Sith in theater, because it seemed very epic to me at the time and the world was so detailed and engrossing, and it reminded me of playing Elder Scrolls: Oblivion for the first time. The sheer magnificence of a fictional world brought to life, the detail and color about everything, the characters and the vistas were so exciting and seemed like they could actually exist somewhere. Watching Avatar I kinda just wanted to leap into the screen and run around happily, poking plants and things. But the Thanator sort of ruined all that.

    I thought that Pandora itself was a very three dimensional world -- even without the 3D glasses. Essentially, the 3D only served to enhance certain details, such as depth perception for some of those awesome vista panoramas and certain interior shots that popped off of the screen in a very cool way, and for the Pandoran jungle night sequences, which were very Midsummer Night's Dream-esque but still gorgeous even without the 3D (I kept closing my left eye to see what the film looked like sans the 3D) If I had seen this film even on a regular screen, it would still have felt powerful and profound to me.

    I thought that the Na'vi were very well developed as characters, as opposed to the human characters which worked for the purposes they served in the plot, but could have withstood more development. I loved the Na'vi, I loved their language, I loved what they represented. The look of them far surpassed any animated film I have seen. At times, they seemed like physically altered actors in blue paint, other times, they were more obviously motion captured but still looked quite realistic. Their movements, their expressions, their EYES...omg, their eyes. So full of expression and life. And they had killer smiles. They were very cool. Their 10 foot, blue absurdity started to make sense when the story began to show more of what they were about and how they connected to the Pandoran world. The concept of Pandora being a living network of beings was very cool to me. I liked that the implications for destroying any part of such a world were far more severe than simply cutting down a tree. I was supremely impressed with the other forms of life in the world too, the plants, bugs, beasts. The Thanator and Banshees were supremely awesome. Cameron's team really outdid themselves creating the world, I could feel every inch of detail much more than in any video game. I really hope I can see the film again soon, I feel like I missed seeing so much.

    Having finally seen it after listening to so much media hype and naysay, I can honestly say that I think they were all wrong about how this film would either be good on a visual level or no levels at all since most of them pretty much dismissed the plot. There IS a plot, and it's a good one. It engaged and entertained me, which is what I think it was supposed to do. Some things could have been more allegorically stated, but as far as I have noted, Cameron is not a very allegorical writer. As far as the anti-war/colonialism-critique goes, it's all true. Jarhead mentality exists, idiocy exists, there are people who just don't give a damn about anything but themselves and yeah, resource wars happen. Avatar didn't tell any lies, it just wrapped what everybody already knows about war, the military and colonialism in a very pretty package full of blue people. If you don't like the truth in an obvious form, you probably won't like Avatar's story. But I didn't personally mind some of the heavyhandedness because the story essentially seemed to me to be more about one man's struggle to escape from his box; from the prison of his closed mind and disabled body. It wasn't Pocahontas, it wasn't Dances With Wolves, it wasn't Ferngully. It was a film about a guy that was searching for himself and finally found himself. The end.

    ...the end, I hope, because it ended on a tight note that I don't think requires a sequel.
     Reply
    firstanointed was starred firstanointed was unstarred
    Image of cletar cletar
    07:27 AM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    It was one of the best movies I've ever seen. Last time I felt like that coming out of a theatre was Lord of the Rings. Last time before that was walking out of the theatre on opening day of The Empire Strikes Back.
     Reply
    cletar was starred cletar was unstarred
    Image of Shiryu Shiryu
    06:47 AM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    AVATAR is "Dune" in World of Warcraft's Night Elf Capital Darnassus. That's the feeling I got halfway into the movie. I'm no WoW nut (not into MMOs at all) but I'm certainly a Dune fanatic ( point in case [rapidshare.com] ). The movie combined lots of vistas and ideas I have previously experienced in several videogames. I loved it, it was certainly worth the wait. I saw it in 2D btw, before anyone I know. All my friends who saw the 3D version yesterday came out disappointed for some reason... I'm gonna check out the 3D version today, but my verdict it's certainly good. I think James Cameron is gonna clean up every visual category in the next edition of the Oscars.
     Reply
    Shiryu was starred Shiryu was unstarred
    Image of Patient Patient
    04:07 AM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    I saw Avatar in 3D today. Which I must admit initially worried me. I was expecting Disneyland Red and Blue paper 3D glasses and over the top effects thrown into my depth perception that would otherwise be meaningless. Instead, I found the RealD 3D element of the film to be used as an enhancement rather than a "Gimmick". As if Cameron was saying, "I have this vision that is impossible to present to you visually without help."

    What really disappointed me was that my Theater did not seem well equipped for such a feat. The RealD 3D element was almost lost on a small partially unfocused screen. There were certain scenes that I knew were supposed to be amazing, but the screen did not did not present it the way it was originally intended to be seen. It was a shame.

    The story was fine. It had a climax, it had a twist, it had a moral dilemma. To be honest most of the downfalls I have heard were from people that were not able to integrate into the extreme emphasis on the visual aspects of the film. I am not talking about a Michael Bay method, but rather that the environment in itself was a character. You were supposed to grow attached to it by your visual experience. You were supposed to be awed by it and with that in mind to mourn for its impending demise.

    Really, in my mind Cameron has attempted to develop a journey with the viewer that is based on being "Blown away" as an integral part of the story and in the end the film does succeed.... Depending on which Theater you saw it of course.

    My recommendation: See it in 3D at the best and biggest theater you can.
     Reply
    Patient was starred Patient was unstarred
    Image of bookwench bookwench
    12:19 AM

    In reply to What Did You Think Of Avatar?
    It was pretty. It was not original, but it was pretty. It was not realistic, but it was pretty. It did not have the best plot ever, but it was pretty. It ... oh, ok, you get the idea.

    You'd date someone for less pretty than Avatar displayed. Admit it.
     Reply
    bookwench was starred bookwench was unstarred
    Image of phoghat phoghat
    05:00 AM

    @bookwench:
    If you want my body and you think I'm sexy
    come on honey tell me so.
    If you really need me just reach out and touch me
    come on sugar let me know.
    And yeah, I'm Blue
     Reply
    phoghat was starred phoghat was unstarred
    Image of Bill-Lee Bill-Lee
    12:06 AM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    Besides ending these "white guilt movies" I think Hollywood really needs to give up the noble savage. Why can't they depict natives as regular people and not enlightened supermen?
     Reply
    Bill-Lee was starred Bill-Lee was unstarred
    Image of Andrew Littler Andrew Littler
    03:39 AM

    @Bill-Lee: because they fear being sued by Native groups complaining they are being portrayed negatively
     Reply
    Wookie1972 promoted this comment Andrew Littler was starred Andrew Littler was unstarred
    Image of Zack Stentz Zack Stentz
    08:15 AM

    @Bill-Lee: Look at the criticism that District 9 got for suggested that living in an impoverished slum didn't necessarily make you noble and kind. There were even suggestions from some (in this forum, if I'm remembering correctly) about what a better movie it would have been if all the Prawns had been nice.
     Reply
    Zack Stentz was starred Zack Stentz was unstarred
    Image of Wookie1972 Wookie1972
    09:33 AM

    @Andrew Littler: Seriously? Clint Eastwood's Flags Of Our Fathers had a three-dimensional Native American who had some of the negative stereotypes of natives (he became an alcoholic). I don't recall one native person complaining about it.

    Natives are mostly invisible in modern American movies, unless they conform to the noble savage archetype/stereotype.
     Reply
    Wookie1972 was starred Wookie1972 was unstarred
    Image of Bill-Lee Bill-Lee
    10:55 AM

    @Andrew Littler: American Indians find the "noble savage" image offensive -- because it's as unrealistic as the "barbaric savage". The handful of times that American Indians have been able to depict themselves in film the characters have been realistic human beings. Smoke Signals, which was directed by Chris Eyre who is Cheyenne and Aprapaho and written by Shermie Alexie who is Spokane/Coueur d'Alene is an excellent film and depicts contemporary American Indians as they really are rather than enlightened, mystical beings.
     Reply
    Bill-Lee was starred Bill-Lee was unstarred
    Image of Bill-Lee Bill-Lee
    12:04 AM

    In reply to When Will White People Stop Making Movies Like "Avatar"?
    "...where a member of the white royalty flees his posh palace on the planet Dune..." I would flee too if my father's enemies sent a huge army to f'ing our entire family.
     Reply
    Bill-Lee was starred Bill-Lee was unstarred
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