Why the hell are there so many touchy people in this comments section. Shit happens, roll on with it and don't worry about it, you won't get an award for doing so.
... So, aren't you supposed to remove his artwork from those two previous posts now? The images are still up there, and he just sent you notice that he, the author, never authorised you publishing them, and is asking you to take them down. Isn't you keeping them up at this point kind of... wrong?
@dead_red_eyes: The article plainly says "here's the email we received" and then the email references Plan.seite as a third party, so ParryLost was right: he's asking for the pictures to be removed from io9.com.
Where does it say that Bacallado is asking io9 to take down the pictures? Nowhere. But really, who gives a shit who the fucking email is addressed to. io9 should take down the pictures regardless if the email was addressed to them or not.
@ParryLost, dead_red_eyes & rek: It's in keeping with Gawker Media's history not to retract content just because someone asks them to—which is why, for example, Gawker was the go-to site for the crazy-ass Scientology video with Tom Cruise back in January after other media outlets got scared and took it down.
The images are part of a legitimate news story under io9's mandate—big director with some big SF hits—and the whole point of the post is that if these really are just the illustrator's personal work, then why is such a fuss being made over them? Why is Plan.Siete being asked to take the interview down?
It really may be the case that Bacallado is just trying to alleviate confusion, but there's definitely reason to question his story. As such, it's nice to see a media outlet not caving and agreeing to stuff information back in a box. This, uncomfortable as it may be, is exactly what journalism is supposed to do.
@Moff:Well I don't know, there's a difference between keeping a written story or interview or a video around, and re-posting someone else's work without their permission. Writing a news story about Avatar is one thing; posting a video interview that one of the people in it don't want posted is another thing; but copying someone else's artwork onto your servers and posting it online, when they specifically ask you not to is a third thing entirely. Also, I'm no expert on copyright law, but couldn't he technically send io9 a legal cease-and-desist thing at this point (or does his e-mail already count as such), since they're using his work in an unauthorized way, and, arguably, for a commercial purpose (since io9 makes money by advertising, which relies on the content they post)? Again, I don't want to sound like a sanctimonious know-it-all or something, and I suppose you could say it's not a huge deal either way, but this seems... wrong to me, and I don't think you can justify it as, "oh, journalism makes it okay." Really? Great, then can I open my own news blog, scan in, say, some copyrighted books, and post them online, page-by-page, as long as I do it as part of a news story on them? I don't think so.
The whole point is that the drawings are NOT Gawker Media's or io9's content. They're the artist's content... or at least, that is my understanding.
@ParryLost: Yep, the artist could definitely take legal action, and then they might have to take the pictures down. But you don't cave right away—let him hire a lawyer if it's such a big deal.
You're assuming that the artist is acting in totally good faith, but again, the story is fishy. That doesn't mean he might not be telling the truth, just that a good journalist wouldn't take him at his word. With all due respect, he did let the images out into the world on his own—it's not like an io9 operative stole them off of his hard drive.
As far as copyright law goes, I'm no expert either, but here's my best understanding (and anyone who knows better, feel free to chime in): Whether you can legally use copyrighted material or not in a news story depends on things like newsworthiness, the pertinence of the copyrighted content, and how much of it you use. No, you could never get away with reprinting whole books, because any judge worth their salt would say you were full of shit (which you would be). But you can reproduce passages of books—book reviewers do that all the time.
Here, I think the newsworthiness and pertinence is indisputable. Of course, a judge might feel differently, but the ultimate point is that (as sanctimonious as this sounds) io9 would actually be failing in their journalistic duties by taking Bacallado at his word despite the strange circumstances and immediately pulling the pictures.
I can see how it seems wrong—it's certainly not really polite, but then, if it's done right, journalism should often be at odds with politeness—but there really is a bigger philosophical question at stake here: Is keeping information that was already public still public important enough to fight for? I totally think it is.
@ParryLost: My friend Eileen makes some very valid points about this discussion, and as a result, I am tentatively revising the position I espoused earlier in favor of better fact-checking before the sticking-to of guns on matters like this (with all due respect to Her Woernerness, of course).
(Also, Jonay Ballacado is threatening hard legal action: [eocula.com])
@Moff:Heh, I never expected my comment to lead to so much discussion! :P Gratifying.
Actually after your previous comment, I myself started thinking -- depending on what was said in the interview, maybe the artist did put himself out there in a position where keeping his work posted on io9 was justifiable, from a "moral" perspective if not a copyright-legal one. But then I realised I couldn't tell *what* was said in the interview, and so returned to my earlier stance, that since he is the artist, and asked, there is at least a strong argument to be made for taking the images down. :P
@ParryLost: Sorry, I'm coming to this discussion late. I'm not Meredith, and Annalee is the final arbiter of these matters, but here's how I see the situation. The Avatar concept art is newsworthy. It's images created for the film by an artist who worked on the film. He, himself, claimed that he'd created this artwork for the film, and now that he's gotten in trouble for releasing them, he's backpedaling. Avatar is a very high-profile upcoming science fiction movie, and it's part of our mission to cover it, including any leaked images. It's the same thing we've done with other upcoming movies. Bottom line: the artist presented these images to the public, in an interview, and claimed they were concept art from the movie Avatar. That makes them newsworthy.
@Charlie Jane Anders: See, that was exactly my thinking; the only reason I reconsidered is that's it not clear to me how certain it is that he said they were concept art. This isn't a knock on Meredith at all, but it seems like we're a little vague on what was said in the Plan.Siete interview (and that it's tough to double-check, now that it's come down). Is it possible that he didn't claim the art was for the film?
(Still fishy, though. If it's not connected to the movie, why get the interview taken down, and why the rush to get the pictures down too, instead of just sending a note of clarification?)
Why are you (sic)ing those words? They are correct spellings you moron! Some British words are spelled differently to the way Americans spell them, so try getting an education that extends beyond the boundaries of the United States before adding (sic) to things.
@Meredith Woerner: changing it was not necessary. it is entirely accurate to [sic] spellings that would seem unusual to the reader and does not bare the connotation zenseeker or rek mistakenly think it does.
also, [sic] is not an acronym and does not stand for anything. it's an actual latin word.
11/22/08
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I think that the email was technically addressed to www.plansiete.com. That said, you would think that i09 would take down his pictures as well.
*shrugs*
11/22/08
11/23/08
Where does it say that Bacallado is asking io9 to take down the pictures? Nowhere. But really, who gives a shit who the fucking email is addressed to. io9 should take down the pictures regardless if the email was addressed to them or not.
11/23/08
The images are part of a legitimate news story under io9's mandate—big director with some big SF hits—and the whole point of the post is that if these really are just the illustrator's personal work, then why is such a fuss being made over them? Why is Plan.Siete being asked to take the interview down?
It really may be the case that Bacallado is just trying to alleviate confusion, but there's definitely reason to question his story. As such, it's nice to see a media outlet not caving and agreeing to stuff information back in a box. This, uncomfortable as it may be, is exactly what journalism is supposed to do.
11/23/08
The whole point is that the drawings are NOT Gawker Media's or io9's content. They're the artist's content... or at least, that is my understanding.
11/23/08
You're assuming that the artist is acting in totally good faith, but again, the story is fishy. That doesn't mean he might not be telling the truth, just that a good journalist wouldn't take him at his word. With all due respect, he did let the images out into the world on his own—it's not like an io9 operative stole them off of his hard drive.
As far as copyright law goes, I'm no expert either, but here's my best understanding (and anyone who knows better, feel free to chime in): Whether you can legally use copyrighted material or not in a news story depends on things like newsworthiness, the pertinence of the copyrighted content, and how much of it you use. No, you could never get away with reprinting whole books, because any judge worth their salt would say you were full of shit (which you would be). But you can reproduce passages of books—book reviewers do that all the time.
Here, I think the newsworthiness and pertinence is indisputable. Of course, a judge might feel differently, but the ultimate point is that (as sanctimonious as this sounds) io9 would actually be failing in their journalistic duties by taking Bacallado at his word despite the strange circumstances and immediately pulling the pictures.
I can see how it seems wrong—it's certainly not really polite, but then, if it's done right, journalism should often be at odds with politeness—but there really is a bigger philosophical question at stake here: Is keeping information that was already public still public important enough to fight for? I totally think it is.
11/23/08
(Also, Jonay Ballacado is threatening hard legal action: [eocula.com])
11/23/08
Actually after your previous comment, I myself started thinking -- depending on what was said in the interview, maybe the artist did put himself out there in a position where keeping his work posted on io9 was justifiable, from a "moral" perspective if not a copyright-legal one. But then I realised I couldn't tell *what* was said in the interview, and so returned to my earlier stance, that since he is the artist, and asked, there is at least a strong argument to be made for taking the images down. :P
11/23/08
11/23/08
(Still fishy, though. If it's not connected to the movie, why get the interview taken down, and why the rush to get the pictures down too, instead of just sending a note of clarification?)
11/23/08
@rek: It was both awesome that someone stood up to the Scientologists and just awesome entertainment.
11/22/08
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also, [sic] is not an acronym and does not stand for anything. it's an actual latin word.
11/22/08
Where? Certainly not here:
[io9.com]
All you can see is a pair of small-ish alien tatties. I would hardly call that extra naked, but that's just me.
11/22/08