I know very few people would agree with this, but if Nolan does a third Batman film, I think they should re-cast the Joker. Very few of Batman's villains fit the atmosphere Nolan has created, and he's sort of painted in a corner with killing two-face.
@jfpierce: I'd like to see the Joker return in a Hannibal Lector kind of role. Something's happening that Batman must solve using Joker's assistance. There's already precedent for it in The Last Laugh & the recent Death of Batman.
This way you could have him hide in the shadows & whatnot. It'd help my sense of immersion, at least. (Though, oddly, losing Katy Holmes wasn't a problem).
@Paul_Is_Drunk: I've said it before, and I'll say it again... cast Mark Hamill as the joker--- he does the best Joker laugh ever, and with just a little makeup and creative lighting, he would look enough like Ledger to pull it off.
Depp as the Riddler? No thanks. As much as I like him, I don't think this would be the role for him.
Some villains I'd like to see on screen:
Clock King (Ralph Fiennes, anyone? He rocks the bowler like no other!)
Bane (can you imagine a Nolan version of a drugged out, paralyzed Batman?)
The Mad Hatter (Seriously, Tom Petty--I'm just sayin')
Clayface (Bruce Campbell as a down-on-his-luck B-movie Actor---with a dash of CG which Hollywood thinks is beyond necessary in any movie these days)
@J_Frank_Parnell: He makes an excellent freak (glover), problem is, he's a freak in real life too. He caused tons of problems on the back to the future set, and they ended up just using his voice overs in the 2nd movie, for which he sued them over. The last thing i want is this guys ego ruining the batman franchise.
The Riddler has a wealth of as-yet-untapped potential, if done right. The confessional Zodiac Killer of a sort, obsessed with outsmarting his own honest tendencies.
Lord knows if they can improve on Romero & Nicholson's Joker with Heath, they can certainly improve on Gorshin & Carrey's goofball takes.
As for Jim Carrey...he's a good actor but that just isn't what the Riddler is; he was playing him as a knockoff Joker.
Once again, the Bruce Timm animated Riddler essentially got it right: the point is that he's an intellect that equals Batman, but unlike Batman, he's just in it for the attention.
Batman would willingly let people think he committed the Twoface murders, a self-less act ruining his reputation for the greater good.
The Joker has Narcissistic Personality Disorder....he NEEDS to taunt the police, like Bundy or the Zodiac killer.
Just as the Joker represents Chaos, the Riddler represents Order taken to a ridiculous extreme: while the Joker is Batman's polar opposite, the Riddler is eerily too similar to Batman for comfort; he has all of Batman's mental powers...granted he doesn't have the martial arts skills or money/access to technology, but he doesn't need to. The point is that Batman's "superpower" is an incredible capability for self-discipline and his intellect; he can drive himself to do anything and, applying his intellect, solve any problem.
what I think "Batman 3" should be about is...just as "Batman Begins" set up the Joker at the end by hinting about "escalations", the Joker himself in "the Dark Knight" kind of hints at the rise of the Riddler: "You know what I've noticed? People don't panic when things go 'according to plan', even if the plan is horrible..."
I imagine that line playing over the cold open of the first batman 3 trailer;
the idea is that after the Joker's reign of terror....people would be disturbingly willing to let the Riddler basically take over the city and restore "Order". because the Riddler isn't a maniac like the joker: how can society appreciate his genius if he destroys society? How can people appreciate his intelligence if he blows up all the libraries?
So the way to play the Riddler is that basically he's a sort of vigilante that's as crazy as Rorschach but as brilliant as Batman....and this will lead to a disturbing debate....similar to the Two-Face one....about how Batman is or is not like the "villains"
Two-Face already played the revenge/vigilante angle. Riddler has to be slightly different; the point being that he doesn't use physical violence but is like a warped Sherlock Holmes, tricking his enemies into killing each other off.
@CodenameV: You know what? I was against another Riddler rehash, thinking it would be better to avoid all the common and already used bat-villains, just like I was against yet another Joker movie (and wow was I wrong on that one, but I still think two-face sucks)
That essay totally sold me on using the Riddler, crafting a unique and logical progression of the story. I just hope there's room for a Catwoman in Nolan's batman that can be morally ambiguous, yet available to give him support now that he's on the wrong side of the law. And look hot in a skintight suit, high heeled boots and a whip.
@CodenameV: An interesting take. My question is, how would this manifest exactly?
The other question I have is what villain would balance this Riddler out, the way Scarecrow's low level work balanced out Ra's Al Ghul larger plan or Two Face representing the Joker's final act of chaos.
@BlueBeard: My own thought for the next Batman movie would be to have both Catwoman and Robin as "crimefighters" who live in the Gotham slums. Catwoman could be a madam protecting her own and Robin a homeless or broken-home kid going back to the character's Robin Hood inspiration. It would contrast interestingly against Batman's wealth, privilege and ability to hide out in his mansion on the hill... Y'know, the rich white guy who thinks he has the solution to everybody's problems. Catwoman and Robin would have to deal with all that crime and poverty without being able to escape it.
I always thought Jim Carrey played an awesome Riddler. But the film was just all wrong. Shame really, I wish another film star could have been sacraficed for that role then Jim Carrey would be up for this. I think Carrey as Nolans Riddler would have been something else!!! Besides....what IS going on with this bloody Bats film. Its on, its off, its being filmed on the moon!!! And why did SIR Michael Caine get in trouble. If theres nothing to talk about, theres nothing to get in trouble for. Oh...theres no film being made yet! Thanks Michael we already knew that due to the lack of a Batman 3 film, and now your going to get in trouble. Silly.
@HyMinded: I think if he brought a bit of the character from the Number 23, a bit darker but still insane. That would probably be awesome and very fitting for a Nolan film.
@CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard): As much as I like Jim Carrey, especially back then, I always wanted Paul Reubens to be Riddler, but I guess that would end up being too much of him just being PeeWee in green spandex.
Edited by CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard) at 09/22/09 8:27 AM
CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard) was starred
CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard) was unstarred
@CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard): I've always thought Carey did a great job as the Riddler in Batman: Forever. He nailed the role that was written for him doing what he does best. He's also got some decent acting chops at his disposal if he ever gets the chance to use it. He's just been typecast as the general crazy-comedy person for so long that people fail to see it. He did a great job in Man On The Moon, and Truman Show was a bit more than his Ace Ventura style of crazy but still some decent acting on his part. I think it would be a good, if not at least interesting, choice to see him do a darker Riddler in a Nolan-style Batman where he brings in his darker side like in 23 a bit more.
@OW-Holmes--Upset with Polling:
"Well, I, um, well, that is to say, I had him cornered, you see. And I was thinking that, well, I should, you see, I had decided to throw a rock at him. Ah, yes, no, maybe, don't think that about me! It was, in truth, a rather large rock."
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This way you could have him hide in the shadows & whatnot. It'd help my sense of immersion, at least. (Though, oddly, losing Katy Holmes wasn't a problem).
09/22/09
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09/22/09
Some villains I'd like to see on screen:
Clock King (Ralph Fiennes, anyone? He rocks the bowler like no other!)
Bane (can you imagine a Nolan version of a drugged out, paralyzed Batman?)
The Mad Hatter (Seriously, Tom Petty--I'm just sayin')
Clayface (Bruce Campbell as a down-on-his-luck B-movie Actor---with a dash of CG which Hollywood thinks is beyond necessary in any movie these days)
09/22/09
09/22/09
I also think Jeffrey Combs might make a good Riddler. The man is completely under-utilized in Hollywood.
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Batman has so many .
want to add a touch of horror add clayface , where he could look like anyone else . and still have mystery for batman to contend with.
09/22/09
The Riddler has a wealth of as-yet-untapped potential, if done right. The confessional Zodiac Killer of a sort, obsessed with outsmarting his own honest tendencies.
Lord knows if they can improve on Romero & Nicholson's Joker with Heath, they can certainly improve on Gorshin & Carrey's goofball takes.
09/22/09
09/22/09
As for Jim Carrey...he's a good actor but that just isn't what the Riddler is; he was playing him as a knockoff Joker.
Once again, the Bruce Timm animated Riddler essentially got it right: the point is that he's an intellect that equals Batman, but unlike Batman, he's just in it for the attention.
Batman would willingly let people think he committed the Twoface murders, a self-less act ruining his reputation for the greater good.
The Joker has Narcissistic Personality Disorder....he NEEDS to taunt the police, like Bundy or the Zodiac killer.
Just as the Joker represents Chaos, the Riddler represents Order taken to a ridiculous extreme: while the Joker is Batman's polar opposite, the Riddler is eerily too similar to Batman for comfort; he has all of Batman's mental powers...granted he doesn't have the martial arts skills or money/access to technology, but he doesn't need to. The point is that Batman's "superpower" is an incredible capability for self-discipline and his intellect; he can drive himself to do anything and, applying his intellect, solve any problem.
what I think "Batman 3" should be about is...just as "Batman Begins" set up the Joker at the end by hinting about "escalations", the Joker himself in "the Dark Knight" kind of hints at the rise of the Riddler: "You know what I've noticed? People don't panic when things go 'according to plan', even if the plan is horrible..."
I imagine that line playing over the cold open of the first batman 3 trailer;
the idea is that after the Joker's reign of terror....people would be disturbingly willing to let the Riddler basically take over the city and restore "Order". because the Riddler isn't a maniac like the joker: how can society appreciate his genius if he destroys society? How can people appreciate his intelligence if he blows up all the libraries?
So the way to play the Riddler is that basically he's a sort of vigilante that's as crazy as Rorschach but as brilliant as Batman....and this will lead to a disturbing debate....similar to the Two-Face one....about how Batman is or is not like the "villains"
Two-Face already played the revenge/vigilante angle. Riddler has to be slightly different; the point being that he doesn't use physical violence but is like a warped Sherlock Holmes, tricking his enemies into killing each other off.
09/22/09
That essay totally sold me on using the Riddler, crafting a unique and logical progression of the story. I just hope there's room for a Catwoman in Nolan's batman that can be morally ambiguous, yet available to give him support now that he's on the wrong side of the law. And look hot in a skintight suit, high heeled boots and a whip.
09/22/09
The other question I have is what villain would balance this Riddler out, the way Scarecrow's low level work balanced out Ra's Al Ghul larger plan or Two Face representing the Joker's final act of chaos.
09/22/09
But man, CodenameV NAILED Riddler.
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Good times, good times.
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Good call though on Charlie.
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"Well, I, um, well, that is to say, I had him cornered, you see. And I was thinking that, well, I should, you see, I had decided to throw a rock at him. Ah, yes, no, maybe, don't think that about me! It was, in truth, a rather large rock."
09/22/09
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