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Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
We Have Discovered What Galactica's Future Holds
Everything Is Going to Frak on Battlestar Galactica
It's Cylon Family Dysfunction on Battlestar Galactica
Battlestar Galactica Gives Full-Frontal Exposition
Is the Cylon Alliance Good for Galactica?
Why Is Gaeta So Bad?
Battlestar Galactica Goes Planet of the Apes
Watch Out for Sarcastic Cylons

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dirtybacon
03/17/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
um, isn't it possible that the story will continue, but the battlestar that is named galactica is destroyed, so they just rename the series?

I know it won't happen, and I would hate that, but that would be one hell of a twist.
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Peter Sorensen
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
My only worry is that the "singularity" is going to end up as some kind of a deus ex machina - maybe they all get sucked into it in the final conflict and find themselves smack dab next to a habitable planet or something equally convenient.
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EBone
03/17/09

@Peter Sorensen: Kobol perhaps?
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strangrnstranglnd
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
I LOVE Battlestar. I love it so much, I don't question what the producers are doing. I watch it and enjoy it. I just don't see it as my place to question it. You can't make a TV show by committe. If within their vision, they want some flashbacks in the final moments before the big battle, I am not going to argue.

But as for my actual opinion of the episode, I thought it was brilliant. It gave us time to pause and reflect. It offered us something unusual, perhaps even a little ironic. It took us somewhere we weren't expecting. If it made those characters seem a little vulnerable (as one commenter suggested), likewise it made all of us a little vulnerable to what is likely coming.

This has been a fantastic ride. This has been one of the best shows I have ever seen. I have enjoyed every moment... even the situations that had most of the cynics up in arms (New Caprica, anyone?). Regardless of how this show ends (and what questions it doesn't answer), I will be happy that I was able to enjoy it.

And speaking of questions to be answered... I think everyone needs to realize that this show is not just about questions and answers. Yes, questions were posed, but that doesn't mean the producers have to spoon-feed us the answers. Do we really need someone to say Starbuck is Daniel's daughter. Wasn't that obvious enough from the piano episode? And from the very beginning, the show allowed for visions and supernatural occurences that didn't need any explanations. So, if all people want out of the ending is answered questions, then they will probably be a bit dissapointed. This show is about characters and events... And eventually, everything ends.
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EBone
03/17/09

@strangrnstranglnd: I completely agree that we are supposed to have been fed enough information already to understand that Starbuck is the first true Human/Cylon offspring.

BUT WHO BUILT HER A NEW FRAKKIN VIPER? My guess is Cavil. All part of his plan to maneuver the fleet into a position to get Hera.
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Swearengen
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
Could someone please clear this up for me, as it's never made sense to me. Ty is one of the final 5 and is over 2000 years old (assuming he's never been downloaded), but he and Adama came up together in the fleet, so Ty would have to had looked younger at some point, otherwise Adama would have a few questions. So, if the final 5 do age, that means they'd probably also die, and so they would have to have been downloaded multiple times in those 2000 years, and been downloaded into baby cylons or at least younger versions of themselves. So, who was doing the downloading for them, because the kid cyclons never knew who the final 5 were, so they couldn't have been downloading the final 5 into new bodies. And the final 5 couldn't have been doing the downloading themselves because they didn't know they were cyclons until they heard Dylan. If they had awoken in a ressurection ship, they would sure as hell know they were cylons.
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EltonHabitus
03/16/09

@TancredoHelmer:
In an earlier episode I think Anders mentioned that final 5 realized their mistake of treating their Centurions as slaves. They set off to to try and warn the original colonies but had to travel at relativistic speeds so time dilated for them as they traveled near the speed of light. It took them almost 2000 years of outside time/very little time for them on their ship, to get to the colonies, they arrived while the Cylon war was in full swing. THEY convinced the cylons to stop the war in return for skin job/ressurection tech.

It was almost a mention in passing of the 5 traveling with out "jumping"
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EBone
03/17/09

@EltonHabitus: 'Zactly. Think about the time dilation in the original Planet of The Apes.
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DuPont Snotty
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
Wasn't Six's seemingly generous & caring act of placing Baltar's father in a home just a ploy to get in his good graces, and begin the process of destroying mankind?
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kityglitr
03/16/09

@DuPont Snotty: Actually, I thought it showed her true nature. The Head Six that Baltar imagines (projects?) is not the same as the woman he had a real life relationship with. Just because she had the mission of using him does NOT mean she did not have her own thoughts and issues about what she was doing. After seeing her reaction to Gaius' insincere little speech about her baby's death, I think she's really a very tender creature. She knows who he is, truly. She sees his selfish nature and it disturbs and disgusts her. Imagine exactly how hard her mission was, then. To make a man she despised for his lack of common decency fall in love with her. RDM gets all the credit I have to give.
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kityglitr
03/16/09

@kityglitr: I forgot to add that Six placed Baltar's father in that nice, new home not only to get in his good graces, but because she genuinely felt for the old man. She wanted to show Baltar that it's easy to love another person. That it's good to love other people. She protected him for some reason, let's not forget.
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My Own Private Duncan Idaho
03/17/09

@DuPont Snotty: i actually think you're onto something. i don't think it was simply her being nice and taking care of his father. something's up. she either killed him (perhaps another mercy killing like the baby) or some other nefarious purpose. it wasn't as appears. that's too easy. the scene was there for a reason.
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EBone
03/17/09

@Paralyzed-Baker-With-Beans-For-Eyes: People, people, people. It was Six's way of making herself something more than just one of Baltar's one-night stands. He had already replaced her within days by the new tall brunette, and would have had the police remove her from his home.

For Six to get into the Defense Ministry Mainframe, she needed a hook into Baltar that would create a RELATIONSHIP, not a one night stand. Dear old dad was the perfect hook.
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Miksho
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
Just throwing up some extra evidence for the time frame of this episode:

As previously commented, Zak is alive, which has to put it at least over 2 years before the series started. In addition, Roslin was discussing her reluctance in helping organize Agar's election campaign. He needs time to become president, serve out a good deal of his term, and have an affair with Roslin (remember that?).

I'm saying 2-3 years before series premiere. I really liked the character-building here, because I'm taking this as the first act of a three-act movement. I think those of us who skipped last week's ep to watch all three on friday will feel very differently about this part of the finale.

That being said; Roslin's slow motion fountain diving was really, really cheesy.
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kityglitr
03/16/09

@Miksho: OMG. I was telling my boyfriend "she's gonna take the crazy swim in the fountain now" and he did NOT believe me!
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EroticTangerines
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
I don't understand how people don't realize that Baltar's flashback isn't about his relationship with his dad but about his relationship with Six. Think people.
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GreenishBlue
03/16/09

@EroticTangerines:

Yeah, it clearly was... But I was frustrated how different this characterization of Six was from the Six we saw pre-holocaust in the miniseries. That was a cold, calculating six that snapped a baby's neck just to see what would happen. Yes, Caprica Six has chnaged a LOT since then, but her actions in these flashbacks did not seem consistent with her character arc.

I really thought the characters in these flashbacks, pretty much universally, did not seem like the characters we saw at the beginning of the miniseries, but like earlier versions of the characters we see today (if that makes sense).
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Mortimer Gray
03/16/09

@GreenishBlue: Somewhere I read an alternate interpretation of the moment when Caprica Six killed the baby in the miniseries: it was a mercy killing. She wanted to spare the child from the nuclear attack. This actually makes a lot of sense. After she kills the baby, Caprica Six walks away with an anguished look on her face.
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kityglitr
03/16/09

@GreenishBlue: I think she was a caring person, but her time spent with Baltar (if we're agreeing the flashback was 2-3 years prior to the miniseries) changed her. She became bitter and cold, knowing she had to kill everyone. I can see her questioning the very value of life at this point. Present day Caprica Six isn't like any of the flashbacks, either. She's become keener, world weary, but her dalliance with motherhood has brought back the spark of the Caprica Six revealed in the flashback with Baltar's father.
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kityglitr
03/16/09

@Mortimer Gray: Vindicated!
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GingerArsinoe
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
I felt that the whole Baltar's dad scene was a way for us to understand how six gained his trust.
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EBone
03/17/09

@GingerArsinoe: It was Six's way of making herself something more than just one of Baltar's one-night stands.

But was it really important in the penultimate episode? Maybe back in Season 1 or 2...
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Logan5
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
The presence of a black hole near the Cylon colony represents the possibility that this show is going to end in a time travel loop with all the characters getting swept into its vicinity and transported back in time to colonize Kobol thus starting the cycle again. This would give meaning to the prophecy "All this has happened before, all this will happen again."

It would also be loopy in a BSG sort of way to end this series this way as it would imply that humanity originated with people from the future rather than through evolution. So our ancestors would be our children and we wouldn't descend from other life but through a quirk in physical space.

Also, Starbuck likely misspoke about the "naked" singularity which is a black hole without an event horizon. Naked singularities are said to be a no-no by Einstein as they would expose the universe to all sorts of bizarre physical phenomena. Some astrophysicists speculate they may, in fact, exist and it may be possible to search for them but there is no evidence one way or another of their existence.
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Paganmoon
03/16/09

@Logan5: that would frakking rock! It actually works, and explains alot about the prophecies, they were real, tho dilluted by time, plus things perhaps don't always happen exactly the same way, just very closely.

I approve of this idea!

/P
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EBone
03/17/09

@Paganmoon: Doubt it will happen, based on Moore's LOVE of the Soprano's ambiguous ending, and the fact all accounts the end will be very, very dark.
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cash907
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought all that flashback nonesense was one huge odd/boring waste of what precious little time is left to finish the story. It felt like the ep was trying to contrast how far these people have come, but seriously, do we need to be reminded of that? Some of us have actually been watching the series, and are already well aware that shot happened along the way, and changed these people, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. By itself, it's interesting character stuff, but it should have been placed in earlier eps, and not the frakkin series finale. So laura lost family, boohoo... everyone lost family in the holocaust hun. Lee likes Starbuck?! Get the frak outta town! What does any of this have to do with the here and now?

Half the episode sucked, and half of it was great, so we'll see in a few days which half prevails. And what's up with athena? Bunch of people are risking their lives for your kid, so how about you buck the frak up princess?
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limber
03/16/09

@cash907: But by placing it in the finale, it serves as a bit of a eulogy for each character, a little reminder that before they were this battle-hardened creature, they had other potential.

It's nice to not have a totally linear end and have one that closes the circle instead.
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Grand_Marquis
03/16/09

@limber: Are you implying that everyone who had a flashback is going to die? :o
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limber
03/16/09

@Grand_Marquis: Hell no, and I've absolutely no spoilered info. But Adama made it clear this could be a "one-way trip", and that's a pretty heavy thing to lay down. So getting glimpses of who they were long before they crossed that line and volunteered for a suicide mission... It feels more cyclical than endings usually do.
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omgwtflolbbqbye
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
I'm gonna be really annoyed if everyone gets sucked through that black hole and induces some dumbass time warp/ instant destiny fulfillment.
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GarjaWhchi
03/16/09

@omgwtflolbbqbye:

Im almost counting on it unfortunatly. Would seem like a pretty bad cop-out at this point, but "all this has happened before..." God, I hope im wrong, I dont want Roslin to BE pythia.
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Tenshi21
03/16/09

@omgwtflolbbqbye: A more serious response for you than these other guys:

I don't think they could realistically pull that off at this point. The entire series has tried to be true to life as far as most of the astrophysics goes. Modern astrophysics says that if you fall into a black hole, you will not be spit out somewhere(when) else in any shape reminiscent of yourself before you entered the black hole. You just fall and are crushed.

From what we've seen so far, neither humans nor cylons have anything capable of creating a stable wormhole (though I am curious to see what would happen if they spun up their FTL and tried to jump through the middle of the singularity).
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dangrgirl
03/16/09

@Tenshi21: It doesn't hold up to a hard SF standard, but it does solve some story problems. I outlined some of the evidence here.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
03/16/09

@dangrgirl: I think you've put more thought into it than they did. Your ideas are probably better.
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EBone
03/17/09

@GarjaWhchi: I think the "all this has happened before" has been addressed by the fact that there was a holocaust with Cylons already 1. On Kobol; 2. On Earth; and 3. On the Colonies.
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LarsThorwald
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
I liked the part of the flashback when Starbuck was making the dinner and she was flirting with Adama, and in walks Ben and says that they have to go back to the island.
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ReverendLoki
03/16/09

@LarsThorwald: I agree, that was a great scene.. at least the whole atmosphere was ruined when Peter flew in running from government. That perpetual sneer is annoying.
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Douglas Raymond
03/16/09

@ReverendLoki: I think it was totally saved by the revelation that Cameron was not a terminator but a cylon, all along.
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twophrasebark
03/16/09

@LarsThorwald: LOL.

Then Starbuck sez to Ben, "What are sisters for?"
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EBone
03/17/09

@Douglas Raymond: Awesome! That makes her so much more bangable.
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limber
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
I was totally surprised by the flashbacks, but really happy with them. They served to put what is bound to be a battlefest ending in perspective.

I mean, I forget how little time has passed for them, so it was really good to remember that Laura Roslin, ten years ago, had no possible way to predict that she'd end up on a Battlestar on the other end of the cosmos, plummeting towards robots and a black hole. It reinforced why people would be willing to go on this suicide dive.

We're so used to seeing everything through a survivalist, military frame on this show, I think it makes it more heartbreaking to see what these people were before it all fell apart, and how they changed. Made me see them again as people rather than prophets and cylons and leaders.
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Douglas Raymond
03/16/09

@limber: I agree. I think everything about it not only added perspective, but also made it almost epic. What they're in now compared to where they were, but also the way all of them had changed even before the miniseries. Also, it gave me Lost-ish fate chills when you hear Adama not wanting to go to the decommissioning, and Roslin not wanting to be in the cabinet at all, the very things that saved their lives and made them the most important people to humanity's survival.
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GikiGalore
03/16/09

@Douglas Raymond: If we go with the time line that the flashback occur around two years before the second Cylon attack, and the fact that Adama isn't in uniform, and instead is talking about his experience as a man in command, it seemed to me that he was applying for a civilian job and seemed kind of miserable with the prospects outside of the military.
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EBone
03/17/09

@GikiGalore: My guess is that since he knew his ship was going to be decommissioned, he was leaving the military, and looking for a new job. I didn't get the "just one hour of your time" line or who was talking to him.
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capntim
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
Also: Did anyone else hear Baltar say "...like i need a FUCKING hole in my head?"

i replayed it several times and it wasn't frack.
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Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H.
03/16/09

@capntim: Yeah I did too, you're not crazy.
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Plague
03/16/09

In reply to Battlestar Ending Not With a Bang, But With a Fail?
Best part of the episode was watching Baltar during the scene where people chose to cross the red line.

His expressions said more than all those flashbacks combined.
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Burke
03/17/09

@Plague: I really expected him to come to some sort of introspective benchmark, and to cross the line... somehow, I think he still winds up going anyway.
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EBone
03/17/09

@Burke: I think not. I think he ends up a major player in what's left of humanity after the rest go and die trying to save Hera.
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