O, Brit-Critter. When you lead off your argument by saying that America "gave us Flash Gordon," I'm not sure where you think you can take that sentence without embarrassing yourself, but you don't succeed.
You fail at your own argument again in short order -- you can't hold up SF parody Futurama as an ideal while dismissing Hitchhiker's Guide as a parody, you silly boots!
And anyone who dismisses Monty Python because "Americans liked it" is really just a hideous snob with no sense of humor [Oh, sorry, no sense of *humour*].
I also am quite enamored of how you are both holding up American SF as something to aspire to while insulting Americans across the board for their poor taste in liking the British stuff you disdain...
The only thing British television is lacking is the millions and millions of advertising dollars that US networks can sink into a project, regardless of how stupid it is.
-A Doctor Who spin off, not Doctor Who itself, but a Doctor Who spin off just dominated the ratings for a full week. I've lost count of the amount of 'My dad/workmates/friends don't normally bother with this sort of stuff but they watched all of Children of Earth. That's not cult success that's mainstream and I get so, so tired of people who hold up the 'well it's not really science fiction, is it?' argument at times like this. He's a journalist, he should damn well know better.
-Hitch Hiker's Guide isn't science fiction parody, it's black comedy that uses science fiction as the frame to hang that comedy off. It's Vonnegut in dressing gowns, Ibsen in search of a nice cup of tea and that girl he always meant to talk to at parties. If he's going to cite examples he should cite the correct examples.
-Yes British SF is smaller scale, a lot of the time, than its US equivalents but the last time I checked smaller and execrable weren't the same thing.
The thing is though, that doesn't just come from the economic side of things it comes from the way drama was set up in this country, the fact that so many script writers continue to cut their teeth on the soap operas and the fundamental pragmatism that comes from that. You can have aliens that extend people's life spans, an invasion from the next dimension over and a battle over Canary Wharf provided you see the BBC reporting on it. SF in this country was born out of the 'kitchen sink dramas' of the '50s and '60s and it's still based there, still looking at the stars but all too aware it has the washing up to do afterwards. The good seasons of Red Dwarf, the stuff that's basically Waiting for Godot in space, do the same thing.
-You want an example of British SF cutting loose? Edge of Darkness. What starts as a conspiracy thriller becomes arguably the first piece of green science fiction on TV, taking in an exploration of grief, a beautifully played ghost story, corporate espionage and elements of pure, outright horror. It's one of the best pieces of television ever made, it leaves nothing in the tank and it gets over looked by far, far too many people. Still, Mel Gibson's starring in the movie version so I'm sure it'll be fine.
@Stueymon: Sure. The original, and the movie actually, was directed by Martin Campbell and focussed on Ronald Craven, a Yorkshire police officer and widower who has a very close relationship with his graduate daughter.
When something unspeakably horrible happens, Craven finds himself drawn into the orbit of GAIA, an environmentalist organisation and possible terrorist group, British Intelligence agents Harcourt and Pendleton and Colonel Darius Jedburgh, a CIA 'energy liaison'.
The story builds and builds, incorporating elements of the supernatural, science fiction, thrillers and jet black comedy to create something which is completely unique. It's staggeringly good and I think it's out on DVD too. More info here:
@Alasdair5000: Hmm... sounds intriguing. I'll have to check this out. I've been on a catch up with British scifi lately, enjoying such series as (the original) Survivors and Blake's 7, so this is very helpful. Thank you.
@FiorenzaDampt No worries:) I'd suggest trying The Nightmare Man (Something very unpleasant on a remote Scottish island), the new Survivors and Apparitions (More horror but very good) too.:
I like a bit of horror in my scifi. Very much so, in fact. Aaaand I'll have to add The Nightmare Man to the ever growing list of Things To Watch. I've already seen Apparitions and the new Survivors--which is what prompted me to watch the original. Thank you again! :D
being a writer and a sci-fi fan i've got to say that i wouldn't even consider trying to get a sci-fi tv series produced here. it's a budget thing, american networks can afford to spend more on budgets, if it's british it has to be scaled down.
@alphanumeric1971: That's a big part of it - the US just produces 20 times more programming overall, so of course there will be more good programming and ultimately more good sci fi (though I'd argue most sci-fi in the US is crap, with only a few good high points).
But I'd say Britain does pretty well for their (comparatively) limited opportunities and budgets.
@Magicant: Britain does fantastically for small budgets and limited number of channels until recently. Check out for example a quality series like Starcops, let alone the obvious Who or Blake Seven..
But he's a TV critic and obviously an A class IDIOT.
@alphanumeric1971: I agree to a point however most of the sci fi produced here always seems to have some cheesy stigma. Much of this is down to poor implementation of special effects, be they audio or visual. The latest Torchwood special reeks of cheese, and does little to step away from this stigma.
@Bound: Special effects are over-rated. I'm a big fan of watching the creativity of people who don't have a gazillion dollars to do an entire film in CG. Between the increased focus on character and story and the heightened creative challenge of NOT showing everything, it can make for a great program.
Hell, can you imagine what kind of a film Jaws would have been if Spielberg had a working shark? Or CG? I think we'd have been the losers in that scenario.
On the Doctor front, my favorite episodes are probably amongst those with the smallest cost: Midnight, Blink & Love and Monsters.
I remember enough of this series to seriously wonder why they would ever redo it. Might work as a porno.
From what I remember:
Twirly UFO race wants to conquer Earth. Their brilliant strategy, after traveling through space at incredible speeds, is to slow way down and go at it 3 or 4 Twirlies at a time, every week or so. The invaders from the video game Space Invaders are master war strategists next to these idiots.
Meanwhile, humanity has this secret moon base where women all have purple hair and wear really tight silver outfits. The men dont care much about fashion on the moon, they are too busy piloting 3 or 4 white space fighter planes, each equiped with only one big old missile at the tip. That's enough to take care of all but one of the Twirlies.
The remaining Twirlie would be handled by the crack team on Earth. This consists of manly men with sideburns who wear polyester suits, drive Lamborghinis and constantly hit on the female staff who on Earth can have different styles of hair but must wear really really short skirts, probably because of increased gravity.
They all look very worried about the leftover Twirlie for forty minutes or so. If civilians were to find out there are space aliens trying to invade Earth riding Frisbies, they would freak out! They would freak out even more about the massive amounts of money wasted on Lamborghinis, leisure suits, mini skirts, purple wigs, aluminum foil, moon based space planes with phallic missiles, etc...
But, not worries. By the end of the show, the men are back to the more pressing concern of flirting with the hotties.
@Digbyzzzz: You only missed fact that the Twirly ship corrodes and blows up if it's in Earth's atmosphere too long (Great idea, Bzgnak, should've sprung for the paint protection at Honest Higlux's Used Twirlycraft), their harvesting humans for body parts, and the mesh outfits worn on Skydiver.
Out of all the television theme music I've heard, the only television music that was cooler than the UFO opening theme music was the incidental music they used launching the interceptors!
Seriously. A little over a minute of electric bass with minimal percussion as the pilots scrambled for launch. Damn! It was cool!
I'd like to see a throw down match between Barry Gray and Alexander Courage!
i thought the series had some pretty solid stories and was well worth watching. if i recall right, space: 1999 was what evolved out of a proposed second season of UFO, set pretty much on their moonbase only.
btw, in terms of pure cheese, space: 1999 (imo) wasn't near the original BSG. of course, as cheesy as BSG was...there was always buck rogers...
07/11/09
You fail at your own argument again in short order -- you can't hold up SF parody Futurama as an ideal while dismissing Hitchhiker's Guide as a parody, you silly boots!
And anyone who dismisses Monty Python because "Americans liked it" is really just a hideous snob with no sense of humor [Oh, sorry, no sense of *humour*].
I also am quite enamored of how you are both holding up American SF as something to aspire to while insulting Americans across the board for their poor taste in liking the British stuff you disdain...
07/11/09
07/11/09
-A Doctor Who spin off, not Doctor Who itself, but a Doctor Who spin off just dominated the ratings for a full week. I've lost count of the amount of 'My dad/workmates/friends don't normally bother with this sort of stuff but they watched all of Children of Earth. That's not cult success that's mainstream and I get so, so tired of people who hold up the 'well it's not really science fiction, is it?' argument at times like this. He's a journalist, he should damn well know better.
-Hitch Hiker's Guide isn't science fiction parody, it's black comedy that uses science fiction as the frame to hang that comedy off. It's Vonnegut in dressing gowns, Ibsen in search of a nice cup of tea and that girl he always meant to talk to at parties. If he's going to cite examples he should cite the correct examples.
-Yes British SF is smaller scale, a lot of the time, than its US equivalents but the last time I checked smaller and execrable weren't the same thing.
The thing is though, that doesn't just come from the economic side of things it comes from the way drama was set up in this country, the fact that so many script writers continue to cut their teeth on the soap operas and the fundamental pragmatism that comes from that. You can have aliens that extend people's life spans, an invasion from the next dimension over and a battle over Canary Wharf provided you see the BBC reporting on it. SF in this country was born out of the 'kitchen sink dramas' of the '50s and '60s and it's still based there, still looking at the stars but all too aware it has the washing up to do afterwards. The good seasons of Red Dwarf, the stuff that's basically Waiting for Godot in space, do the same thing.
-You want an example of British SF cutting loose? Edge of Darkness. What starts as a conspiracy thriller becomes arguably the first piece of green science fiction on TV, taking in an exploration of grief, a beautifully played ghost story, corporate espionage and elements of pure, outright horror. It's one of the best pieces of television ever made, it leaves nothing in the tank and it gets over looked by far, far too many people. Still, Mel Gibson's starring in the movie version so I'm sure it'll be fine.
07/11/09
07/11/09
When something unspeakably horrible happens, Craven finds himself drawn into the orbit of GAIA, an environmentalist organisation and possible terrorist group, British Intelligence agents Harcourt and Pendleton and Colonel Darius Jedburgh, a CIA 'energy liaison'.
The story builds and builds, incorporating elements of the supernatural, science fiction, thrillers and jet black comedy to create something which is completely unique. It's staggeringly good and I think it's out on DVD too. More info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_of_darkness
Any help?
07/11/09
07/11/09
07/11/09
I like a bit of horror in my scifi. Very much so, in fact. Aaaand I'll have to add The Nightmare Man to the ever growing list of Things To Watch. I've already seen Apparitions and the new Survivors--which is what prompted me to watch the original. Thank you again! :D
07/12/09
07/11/09
07/11/09
07/11/09
07/11/09
07/11/09
There's just so little of it to compare to the onslaught of American programming to be sure.
07/11/09
But I'd say Britain does pretty well for their (comparatively) limited opportunities and budgets.
07/11/09
But he's a TV critic and obviously an A class IDIOT.
07/11/09
07/11/09
Hell, can you imagine what kind of a film Jaws would have been if Spielberg had a working shark? Or CG? I think we'd have been the losers in that scenario.
On the Doctor front, my favorite episodes are probably amongst those with the smallest cost: Midnight, Blink & Love and Monsters.
06/10/09
From what I remember:
Twirly UFO race wants to conquer Earth. Their brilliant strategy, after traveling through space at incredible speeds, is to slow way down and go at it 3 or 4 Twirlies at a time, every week or so. The invaders from the video game Space Invaders are master war strategists next to these idiots.
Meanwhile, humanity has this secret moon base where women all have purple hair and wear really tight silver outfits. The men dont care much about fashion on the moon, they are too busy piloting 3 or 4 white space fighter planes, each equiped with only one big old missile at the tip. That's enough to take care of all but one of the Twirlies.
The remaining Twirlie would be handled by the crack team on Earth. This consists of manly men with sideburns who wear polyester suits, drive Lamborghinis and constantly hit on the female staff who on Earth can have different styles of hair but must wear really really short skirts, probably because of increased gravity.
They all look very worried about the leftover Twirlie for forty minutes or so. If civilians were to find out there are space aliens trying to invade Earth riding Frisbies, they would freak out! They would freak out even more about the massive amounts of money wasted on Lamborghinis, leisure suits, mini skirts, purple wigs, aluminum foil, moon based space planes with phallic missiles, etc...
But, not worries. By the end of the show, the men are back to the more pressing concern of flirting with the hotties.
06/10/09
I saw it the first time around, and it was stupid back then. Worse than old school BSG.
06/11/09
05/27/09
I don't think that word means what you think it means...
05/22/09
05/22/09
Seriously. A little over a minute of electric bass with minimal percussion as the pilots scrambled for launch. Damn! It was cool!
I'd like to see a throw down match between Barry Gray and Alexander Courage!
05/22/09
Interceptors to Immediate Launch
05/22/09
05/22/09
btw, in terms of pure cheese, space: 1999 (imo) wasn't near the original BSG. of course, as cheesy as BSG was...there was always buck rogers...
05/22/09
05/22/09
Need a refresher.