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It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now

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theshadowalker
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
My $.02?

Spike and Drusilla were, as a couple, my favourite aspect of 'Buffy'.

But Spike, by his lonesome? Meh.

And Buffy and Spike? Not so much. (I really wish that Drusilla had stuck around.)

Also, I think that 'Interview With the Vampire' is a great novel that, unfortunately, people (including Anne Rice herself) have spent decades copying with increasingly diminishing results.

But I can't comment on 'Twilight': I've neither read the book, nor watched the movie...
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ggodo, the man from R.O.A.C.H.
06/22/09

@theshadowalker: I love Drusilla's malevelant insanity. That's part of why I loved the mirror Willow so much, she had the same quality of insane Drusilla had. In short, Drusilla>Spike although Spike was the only thing that kept me going through season 4. Someone had to tell the cast how stupid they were acting.
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cynopt
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Yeahhh... no. The last few seasons of Buffy were indeed pure pain, but if you actually want to source this nonsense, it's all Rice's fault. She came up with the original wussy,whiny bitch-boy vampire, who was then popularized by that endless wank-fest of a movie.

Fucking Lestat, man, fucking Lestat.
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Slovenly Muse
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
The best portrayal of vampires I've ever read is in Jim Butcher's The Dresden Files (the books, not the show). He's got all kinds of vampires! Some deliciously evil, some evilly delicious, and others quite sympathetic in their romantic entanglements but still totally badass. The vampires play only a supporting role in the books, but however you like your vamps (or even if you're not too fond of vamps), I think you'll like the vamps in TDF.
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WillaWopster
06/22/09

The audio books of Dresden Files are wonderful with James Marsters reading them, he has so many accents and voices it is like a whole cast reading the books and once in a while you can hear "Spike". That makes it even better.
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Slovenly Muse
06/22/09

@WillaWopster: Yes! He's the perfect choice to read the books. He really has Harry's voice down pat. And his voice for Toot-Toot cracks me up every time!
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ubernym
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
I agree that vampires can be sympathetic, and not even necessarily pure evil and still be interesting. I'm thinking of Cassidy, the alcoholic Irish vampire in Preacher. He definitely had his savage moments, and he was never effeminate or "sparkly", and yet he still managed to keep some humanity (I think that was the point of his character). Very interesting vamp.

Another great vampire TV series is the extremely short-lived Ultraviolet. It's only six episodes long, but it's great because it depicts modern vampires living modern lives and still being really, really evil.

Seriously, if you haven't seen Ultraviolet, go rent it, buy it, torrent, whatever. It's really great. Has a lot of well known actors, including a guy who I think is now a vamp on True Blood.
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Slovenly Muse
06/22/09

@ubernym: Ooh, I second that! I loved Ultraviolet. That show did vampires REALLY well.
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Slovenly Muse
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
I don't think it's fair to say that Joss writing 'Slayer/Vampire star-crossed love' storylines caused Meyer to write 'Helpless girl has mopey vampire protector who loves her' stories. The power dynamic is completely different. Yes, Angel stalked Buffy in a very creepy way, and she knew it. As we see from the clips in the mash-up, she was really creeped out by it. But in Buffy's love stories, she has the power, and her choices and actions propel the whole show. Even with Spike (which I agree was a travesty), Buffy was still the one with the power. Bella seems to be the character (not having read/seen Twilight I can't say for sure) that things happen to, who is propelled by the choices and actions of others, and is alive because her dashing vampire savior loves her, despite the fact that she is his prey. This gives their respective romances with vampires a completely different feel, and a very different appeal.

They might look similar on the surface, but if inspiration for Twilight is what Meyer got out of Buffy, then she was watching the show wrong.
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Xstrikr
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
At least Angel and Spike were killed stuff. Even when Angel and spike were being mopey/en-souled they still went out and kicked ass. Even if Angel was emo was brooding he was still a killer and scared people. Spike was kick ass until the buffy relationship in season 6 + 7 but they did him right s5 of Angel.

Also on a side note: my favorite scene in both angel + buffy was when Spike visited LA in season 1 and mocked Angel for his brooding pretty boy style.
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ggodo, the man from R.O.A.C.H.
06/22/09

@Xstrikr: Working up a load of sexual tension and prancing off like a poof is my only reward.
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justgroovy
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
For me, the guy that killed the vampires was Eddie Murphy in "Vampire in Brooklyn", the vampire with a goatee. What was that about?!!

Angela Bassett was hot, but a vampire named Witherspoon Maximillian with a fake Caribbean accent should have self-immolated in the first rays of dawn available.
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Elizabeth Weinbloom
06/22/09

@justgroovy: Dude. Because vampires are evil, and goatees are evil. Duh, perfect match.
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Ed Grabianowski
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Everyone go watch/read 30 Days of Night and we'll all feel better.
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TheGreat&PowerfulTurtle
06/22/09

@Ed Grabianowski:

I'll see your 30 Days of Night and raise you Let The Right One In.
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crashedpc - Haifisch
06/22/09

@TheGreat&PowerfulTurtle: I'll otaku it up and throw in the Hellsing OVAs.
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Elizabeth Weinbloom
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
"and a piece of the Buffy set in my home."

Ooh, what do you have?

/missing the point
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Charlie Jane Anders
06/22/09

@Elizabeth Weinbloom: I have a barstool from the Bronze.
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Alexis
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
While I see where you're coming from, my inner 16 year old self was in pain reading this. Buffy did get a little irritating with its constant focus on Spuffy, but I loved it at the time. And yes, Angel was pretty much Edward in the first couple of seasons but he really came into his own later. Angel was a much more thought out show. The storylines were better, the romances were understated. Angel was an all around better effort.

I remember hating Spike on Angel s5, but seeing it again years later, I realized that the best sexual chemistry in the Buffyverse was from Angel and Spike.

There. You were all thinkin' it, I just said it.
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Pope John Peeps II
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Well to her credit all the Rice vampires kept their air of menace. In the books it was generally made pretty clear that even the good ones were often pretty savage at heart. And frequent scenes of murder would remind you that they were predatory creatures.
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stoprobbers
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Let's get one thing very, very clear here:

Not once, in the history of Buffy, did a Vampire walk out into the sun and SPARKLE.

You make a very interesting case for Angel and Spike (and really Spike -- Angel was a mopey dude, but there was a reason he was a mopey dude, and he was an AWESOME dude, and somtimes he was funny (intentionally and unintentionally) and when he was Angelus you have to admit he was pretty unnerving) being the forebearers of the Edward Cullen-barely-vamps, but despite all of Joss's metaphoring, almost all of the vampires on Buffy actually WERE vampires. To wit:

They never went to high schoo. Holy water and sunlight were both damaging and deadly. Stakes killed them, as did beheading (and sometimes rocket launchers). Crosses deterred them and burned them. THEY DRANK BLOOD. EVEN ANGEL DRANK BLOOD. Hell, he even got around to biting Buffy.

There was none of this sparkle nonsense. Aside from Angel, the unsouled vampires were pretty uniformly demonic. Sometimes bumbling and stupid, but demons nonetheless.

The only thing Twilight vamps have in commong with Buffy vamps is that they're immortal. But pit lame-ass-souled-Spike against Eddie C? Spike'll stake him before Eddie even has the chance to try to emote.
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acrobatic rabbit
06/22/09

@stoprobbers: i wholeheartedly agree. although Spike's demise a la lurve got really annoying really fast.

But i agree with everything you're saying. I have not, and will not, watch or read Twilight because of the whole "sparkling" thing. That doesn't make them vamps, that makes them emo albino retards.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
06/22/09

@acrobatic rabbit: "That doesn't make them vamps, that makes them emo albino retards."

That needed to be repeated.

(With apologies to the developmentally disabled, as acrobatic rabbit and I are in no way insulting them by using the term to refer to Twilight critters. People are developmentally disabled; sparkly emo "vamps" are retards.)
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k4man
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Admittedly a vampire who cries over marshmellows in his hot chocolate isn't a viscous demon. Nor is retconning him into a defanged puppy to cover the void left by an alpha male.

But vampires who sparkle? Still can't stop laughing over that.

Besides, Frank Langella and Bela aside, some of the blame also has to fall on "Forever Knight." One of the earlier, "bad boys gone good" models for emo vamps everywhere.
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stoprobbers
06/22/09

@k4man: Right, but Spike asking for "those little marshmallows" was funny. Buffy, at its base, was always a funny show. And I liked Spike's multi-faceted nature, until they defanged him.
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Pope John Peeps II
06/22/09

@k4man: Viscous demons are the worst. You pat them on the back, and you get goo all over your hands, and it's hard to let go because they have such a strong surface tension.
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SinisterBill
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Didn't Ann Rice's Interview pre-date Buffy? I always thought that's what led to vampires being so freaking pathetic now.
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Charlie Jane Anders
06/22/09

@SinisterBill: Yeah I do admit above that Rice deserves some of the blame. But the Buffy-ites definitely can't lord it over the Meyer-lovers.
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MinervaAlpaca
06/22/09

@Charlie Jane Anders:

Again, DARK SHADOWS predates Rice.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
06/22/09

@MinervaAlpaca: Not only that, but even the remake of Dark Shadows pre-dates Buffy.
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crashedpc - Haifisch
06/22/09

In reply to It's Buffy's Fault That Vampires Are Weak Now
Yeah, well, I prefer the character Agent Booth over Angel any day. And that's all I have to add to this topic.
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barb95
06/22/09

@crashedpc : ゴキブリ and 蟑螂 division: ding, ding, ding! I'm in your corner : )
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Ruthless, If you let me
06/22/09

@barb95: crashedpc : ゴキブリ and 蟑螂 division: +1 to you both. The corner is getting crowded.
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Eridani
06/22/09

@crashedpc : ゴキブリ and 蟑螂 division: +1! I liked Angel, but I love Agent Booth. Being a man's man kind of guy suits the actor better than being broody.
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crashedpc - Haifisch
06/22/09

@Eridani: I will never be manly enough to have a "Cocky" belt buckle.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
06/22/09

@BullLifter: We need a much bigger corner, I think.
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