San Francisco, 11:58 AM
Thu Mar 18
24 posts in the last 24 hours
IO9 TEAM
Tip your editors:
Editor-in-Chief:
Annalee Newitz |
Managing Editor:
Charlie Jane Anders |
Weekend Editor:
Graeme McMillan |
Senior Reporter:
Meredith Woerner |
Assistant Editor:
Cyriaque Lamar |
Graphic Design:
Stephanie Fox |
Contributors:
Tim Barribeau |
Joshua Glenn
Stephen Goldmeier |
Ed Grabianowski |
Austin Grossman
Paul Hogan |
Lauren Davis |
Chris Hsiang |
Lynn Peril |
Ann VanderMeer
Alasdair Wilkins |
Interns:
David Daw |
Mary Ratliff |
Cayman Unterborn |
Comics are a storytelling medium, games aren't. That's why games are 'harder' to adapt to film, there's nothing but visuals, and if there is a story they probably ripped it off from a film anyway.Reply
@dnwilliams: If you're being sarcastic then, please, ignore everything I'm about to say. If not, then:
Knights of the Old Republic, Mirror's Edge, Uncharted 1 & 2, God of War, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Dead Space, Bioshock, Eternal Darkness, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Half Life, Sins of a Solar Empire, Assassin's Creed 2, Resident Evil 4, Home World and Myst.
Just a few of the games that I can think of off the top of my head that have better storytelling than most movies I've seen recently.Reply
@EdificeComplex: Needs more classics like Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Full Throttle and The Dig, Fallout 1 and 2.
That way we can disregard the graphics issue.Reply
@EdificeComplex: I wasn't being sarcastic at all. Comics are used to tell stories, games are used to immerse the player in an environment. I'm not hating on games, just stating that one medium emphasises the storytelling skills of writers and artists whilst the other emphasises graphics and gameplay.
A lot of the games you mentioned were heavily influenced by films (KotOR = Star Wars, Uncharted = Indiana Jones, Resident Evil = Dawn of the Dead, Metroid Prime = Alien). Comics are just generally far richer source material for adaptation. If you discuss a comic with someone you may say you love the art and the dialogue, but if it's a really good comic you talk about how brilliant the writing is, how well the characters are developed - that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games.
Remember, there's also more diversity in comics in terms of genre. Even though superheroes dominate, there are also autobiographies (Persepolis, American Splendor), comedy dramas (Ghost World, Scott Pilgrim) and histories (From Hell). These are areas of literature games cannot, or at least do not, exploit. Every game you listed would be an action movie if it were adapted. There can never be a game adaptation equivalent of Road to Perdition, A History of Violence, etc.Reply
@dnwilliams: "Comics are used to tell stories, games are used to immerse the player in an environment."
I disagree with you on that the two should be differentiated. I get immersed in a good story wether it's being told to me (books and movies) or I'm interacting with it (video games). I would argue that a comic, book or movie isn't doing its job if you are not immersed in its world. And a video game isn't doing its job if it isn't telling a story.
"...whilst the other emphasises graphics and gameplay."
I agree that may have been true of video games in their early days. Games like Doom and Duke Nukem were very much centered around gameplay rather than story. But I think that was more due to the limitations in technology than anything else. As the latest generation of consoles has shown, games are much more sophisticated. Games like the Uncharted series and Bioshock show that their writers and artists have created worlds that are just as intricate as the best book, movie or comic.
"A lot of the games you mentioned were heavily influenced by films (KotOR = Star Wars, Uncharted = Indiana Jones, Resident Evil = Dawn of the Dead, Metroid Prime = Alien)."
All of that is true. But nothing in the creative industry develops in a vacuum. I'm an architect, I should know. Star Wars was in turn influenced by the old stories of Wild West cowboys and legends of Samurais. Indiana Jones was influenced by the action hero serials of the early 20th century. Alien by the B-Horror movies of the 50s. Even comic books are not immune. Superman was influenced by mythic heroes such as Samson and Hercules. And Superman's Metropolis was heavily influenced by Fritz Lang's movie of the same name.
"but if it's a really good comic you talk about how brilliant the writing is, how well the characters are developed - that's a conversation nobody has about even the best games."
I have to disagree with you there as well. Yes, video games are still reviewed or praised based on their graphics and gameplay. But characters and storyline are making their way into how a game is received. Isaac Clarke (Dead Space), Nathan Drake (Uncharted) and Commander Shepard (Mass Effect) are all thought out and developed characters by the end of their respective games. And then you have a game like Heavy Rain which comes out next year. That game is centered solely around character development and not heavy action scenes or dismembering enemies.Reply
@EdificeComplex: "Games like the Uncharted series and Bioshock show that their writers and artists have created worlds that are just as intricate as the best book, movie or comic."
I strongly disagree with that. There's no video game equivalent of Brave New World, The Godfather or Watchmen.
"characters and storyline are making their way into how a game is received"
That's exactly my point, they're making their way into how a game is received, but they are by no means the be all and end all - story is not paramount. Game developers at this point in time do not set about to make a game because they want to tell a good story, they do so because they want to create a memorable experience. A great game can have a weak story and still be a truly great game. Comics are completely different, without story they are nothing.
Jason Reitman made a good point when he said that video games as a medium are in their infancy, that where we are with games now is the equivalent of being in the 1920s with cinema, so there's a long way to go.Reply
I bored so many people to death telling them how bad Catwoman was. I was so pissed off I payed to see that ass crap movie. Seriously though, how can you screw Hale in a cat costume!!
I think we need Catwoman Begins. Without the kitty super powers. I will personally pull a script out of my ass that will be better than the first one.Reply
I would actually like to see some P&PRPG movies rather than videogame & comic movies. Games like Shadowrun, Rifts, Call of Cthulhu, (or CthulhuTech), Traveller, Castle Falkenstien, Heavy Gear, Dark Conspiracy and Gamma World (among others) hold endless opportunity for great storytelling. Sadly I don't think anyone is ever going to do a movie version of the old D&D cartoon :(Reply
Video games, sadly, will never quite get up there until the current status quo moves on. There are a staggering amount of veritable dinosaurs still working in Hollywood land. I mean, hell, it wasn't that long ago that Comic Book movies first busted the wall down with Burton's Batman--quality and opinion of the films aside, proof that a 'comic book movie' could at least rise above pure scholock. What followed it? Batman 2, and right to Schumaker. Spider man practically brought back Comic Book movies with a vengence--now there's all kinds of rumors of studio meddling going back as far back as the third spidey. (Shoe-horning Venom in because he's more 'popular')
Anyway, wandering back to topic: The current stable of the majority of guys-with-the-money think of video games in terms of Donkey Kong. They're likely going to stay that way until some new guy comes along and puts out a better-than-expected video game film and puts something on the map: But Peter Jackson at his high point couldn't get them to budge. Say what you will about Verhoven, but in movie-land, economically successful franchises like POTC (Which in my opinion are pure schlock, but money talks louder than quality, natch) should let him write his own checks: but they'll only do Bioshock on the cheap... because--big surprise, they're probably still thinking of Donkey Kong.
My average- joe prediction says probably about 10-15 years. Maybe as early as five, if somebody with some serious clouts suddenly gets interested or Jackson gets enough revenue to tell them to blow off entirely. Once the folks who grew up playing the games and actually enjoyed them start to gain some real ground, we'll start seeing it.
and for those nay-sayers who say "Video Games have no story!" I leave you only this: Out of the ENTIRE Spider man collection, excluding nothing, not a single issue, pick 10. The odds are, most of them will be absolute tripe. We all remember the good Spiderman stuff, nobody remembers the guy has been around for decades and stuff like Maximum Cloneage are the status quo, NOT the exception.Reply
Does this post seem overly defensive of video game movies? And there actually appears to be a paragraph in here that would insinuate that the Resident Evil movies were good films. Wow.Reply
@Charlie Jane Anders: They did play off the last movie well. Better than the first two. My main problem with the movies is that I played the first game. There was a great story to be put in theatres, and the studio masterminds ignored it and gave us an underground complex with a lame sleeper agent. That turned me off to the whole series.Reply
I'll say this: it better be about a guy in a top hat with a huge mustache riding around in a giant thimble and buying entire streets, whereupon he mugs people who happen to loiter and forces them to stay in his hotel.
Here's the biggest problem, and the one that hurt comic book movies for far too long:
The medium is still considered immature by Hollywood, it's for kids, and they can't be bothered.
When you have people like Ebert slandering the medium with his "videogames are not art" standpoint, it's hard for director/studio "X" to look at the material any other way. They aren't going to take the time to sit with the Uncharted's and Metal Gear's to find the nuances and artistry on display.
It also doesn't help that the scope of most games is far too big for any indie studio to tackle without one of the majors doing (at least) some financing.
Another point of contempt is the fact that too many videogame adaptations are the exact opposite of what the fans want to see. The "Resident Evil" is a perfect example of this, and as much as we want to blame Paul W.S. Anderson, the blame needs to fall on Capcom. They built a world with a very deep mythology and interesting characters then hired a brilliant writer/director to turn that world into a film franchise. George A. Romero's spec script for "Resident Evil" is still the most faithful videogame adaptation you're likely to read, and Capcom threw it out because it was "too much like the game".
Stare......blink.......WHAT!?
Studios do not seem to get that when we pay our $10 bucks to sit in a theater to watch these films, the last thing we want to see is some hackneyed douchebags "interpretation" of our beloved series'. We essentially want the game, on-screen, brought to life by people who were passionate about telling the same story we fell in love with.
It's a shame too, as this seems to be the only industry where a property is bought, an everything that made us love it is completely thrown out and rebuilt by people who (most likely) have had little to no contact with the original source material at all.
This year the videogame industry outgrossed the film industry, which is a huge step toward people finally taking it seriously. Verbinsky's "Bioshock" could have been a game changer, Peter Jackson's "Halo" could have set a new standard, but now it looks like all hope may rest on Sam Raimi's "World of Warcraft" for this medium to gain any credibility.
(Also, to the writer of this article, Peter Berg is directing Battleship, not Roland Emmerich)Reply
@(Starman) Starman: Don't criticize Uwe Boll unless you think you can knock him out. He's notorious for challenging his critics to boxing matches.Reply
As for why Halo fell through, the answer is simple: Movie execs see video game-based projects as low-budget affairs, designed to pack in the 18-34 male demo on weekends during the slow months between summer and Xmas blockbusters. Halo is exceptional in that it actually has an involving narrative (as opposed to a flimsy pretense to shoot up things), but the over-40s running the studios failed to understand what captivated Jackson and Blomkamp. The same is true for the BioShock movie. I'm not sure if the idea that video games can actually have real stories in them worth expending $100-$200M (as opposed to, say, fifty year old theme park rides or twenty year old toy lines) has sunk in at the executive level. Not many gamers there, I'd wager.Reply
The verdict is probably Toy Movies for 2 years. Bigger and dumber. But in the videogame versus movie argument, it could be that games need to evolve while movie-making becomes more democratic before we have a revolutionary industry-changing product. The Epic Videogame Debates seemed to conclude that games are still too simplistic and the movie industry is "too big to fail".
IOW, good game + good movie = new genre?Reply
I thought Silent Hill was the best game adaptation yet. Even though they shifted the story a bit, the first half of the movie is almost identical to the first game...sans the main character's gender.Reply
@0kami: Silent Hill really nailed the tone of the game, but the story kind of fell apart as they went along. Which is too bad, since the game has a pretty strong and screenplay-friendly story line compared with a shooter like Doom.Reply
@Barnabus: Totally agree. It really felt as if I were in the game-world. But the story fizzled out, sadly. Still my favourite game adaptation so far.Reply
"Uwe Boll would have to work overtime and weekends to make a film half as bad as Catwoman"
The data does not support your assertion. "Catwoman" got a 27 on metacritic and 10 on Rotten Tomatoes. Of all of Uwe Boll's movies, only one (Blackwoods) outscored it on either - and only narrowly. The rest got substantially worse scores. I think it's clear that Mr. Boll is the single most important reason why video game movies suck.Reply
Maybe videogame movies suck because videogame stories are generally crap.
Most videogames are about violence, so the story in a videogame(much like the story in a brain dead action film) is only interested in connecting action scenes together in a web of crap. You find a reason to kill, and the rest shabbily writes itself.
On the other hand, comics are nowhere near as interactive, so comic book writers dont have to insert action in every page, they can actually expand on the story.
as videogamers, we get pissed if we have to put the controller down for too long because of a cutscene. MGS4 is a prime example, it gets so much shit for its 45 minute cutscenes. it gets joked about and ridiculed.
I doubt if MGS4 had a better storyline(MGs4 did not have a good storyline) people wouldnt have bitched about the length of those cutscenes.
Then there are games like Heavy Rain, which for all intents and purposed IS a movie. if they made a theatrical film, it would be the same thing without the interactivity? So pretty much just Heavy rain on autorun.
And finally, Super mario bros, Resident Evil, Doom.
These are all games with terrible storylines, if theyre going to make movies on games like these, they need a complete rewrite.
BUT gamers, a lot of gamers have shitty taste in literature and film and sometimes music too, and if youre not faithful to the original material, it automatically sucks in their eyes. They dotn understand that not everything in a videogame can transfer smoothly to the big screen.
Too bad no one in Hollywood takes videogames with any respect. Thats the problem.
If anyone out there in Hollywood wants to make a good videogame movie, ill tell you how.
Have some fucking respect for videogames. They arent for kids anymore.
Dont listen to the fans, they will never be pleased. Take that videogame story and shape it in your own way, in a way that will work as a film, yet still have the essence of the original material.
Dont try to jam everything from the videogame(characters, locations, weapons, dialogue, memorable scenes) into the film. make the film stand on its own.
Dont reference the fact that the film was based on a videogame by putting a scene of some guy playing the arcade game or the console game in the background or some lifebar/HUD joke either. its a cheap laugh that makes the entire film cheap.
Get David Hayter to write your script.
Rant over. if this makes sense to anyone, i think i deserve a lollipop.Reply
@fernandosolano: Your last paragraph epitomises exactly what it should be like, i whole heartedly agree with everything you say, except i'd have to say there are a decent amount of gamers who have a shitty taste in literature and other arts, but definitely not the majority, the majority of gamers i know have excellent tastes in music, film and literature.
Also finally if you think of video-games and films as puzzles that have to be pieced together to get a good final product, and that they require starkly different shaped pieces you will soon find that if you use videogame pieces with film pieces, the end product ends up a complete mess, so you have to get out a pair of scissors and marker pens and alter the pieces to the fit and look better together, it all needs work added to fit snugly.Reply
"But the other thing that becomes apparent, after you look at all of the superhero and video-game films of the past decade, is that the overall level of quality of both has been pretty bad. For every X-Men 2, Spider-Man or The Dark Knight, there are plenty of films like X-Men 3, Wolverine, Catwoman, Daredevil, and so on."
Well, that could be said for every genre. For every Exorcist that come along, you have a Hostel, Boogeyman or Dead Silence.
For every Die Hard and Speed, you have Armored, Shooter or Hard Target
And so on for every genre. For every good movie, you have ten drecks.Reply
Isn't it more accurate to say that superhero movies took a downturn in the 1990s and are now enjoying a resurgence to their former status? The 70s and 80s gave us Donner's Superman and Burton's Batman, after all; it was mostly the suckage of the post-Burton Batman films that killed off the superhero genre for a while. Video game movies, on the other hand, have never been more than a niche product.Reply
@JRD_2: If you look at it by decade, it's pretty much a wasteland before 2000. The 1970s had Superman: The Movie... and what else? The 1980s had more Superman films, and then Burton's Batman. And what else?Reply
Why no mention of Blade? I'd say it was the start of the new comic movie wave. Definitely the first Marvel one and showed what was to come in the 2000s.Reply
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.