As a black man, and a massive nerd, I must say that this article was both well written and immensely painful. Well done, sir. Well done.
The funny thing is, I've met many other black comic book fans. Latino comic fans, too. It seems to me like black and/or minority heroes in general should be more successful, but yet there's only a string of cancelled titles. Perhaps the problem is actually the paucity of books with a black protagonist. Since there's usually only a few going on at a time, it's seen as something different from the norm. So a black leading character attracts extra attention, which may increase the pressure on the creative team to make a "statement" about the black/minority experience. And that can turn some people off, Especially if they don't understand, can't relate to, or disagree with that author's statement. Various writers who've worked on Captain America have complained of a similar problem. Simply too much symbolic weight is added to the character, and it becomes leaden.
The other question is one of identification. Much of the old-guard comic book audience is white, and they'll want to see heroes they can identify with, that they can imagine themselves being. So they'll be more interested in protagonists that look like them, or some image of what they want to look like. That's just natural, but it does place an extra onus on a black character.
The weird thing is that books with alien heroes as their protagonist have done just fine. I'd like to think that's because regardless of the color of our skin, we all feel like aliens sometimes.
@Briareosdx: I agree with what you say, but I would hope (possibly naively) that most(some?) of us could identify with a character of a different race. I can understand that people might have a positive identification with a character of the same race (e.g. Whoopi Goldberg with Uhura [en.wikipedia.org]), but as a white woman I can find her inspiring too. I find the idea that a white audience needs protagonists of the same race before they can identify depressing. Just like your point about identifying with the concept of alien, I think a lot of people can identify with the concept of minority to a greater or lesser extent.
@Briareosdx: I think perhaps another reason these titles tend not to succeed is a lack of black writers in the medium. Going by the old credo of "Write what you know". I think the end-result tends to come out a little flat and stereotypical considering most writers are middle-class suburban white guys writing their image of what a black hero are like. But that's just my $0.02 on the issue.
@Jenimartian: I don't think that's a naive thing to hope for at all. To me, part of the power of literature in any medium is that it can allow us to identify with people who are very different from ourselves. However, that can be a tricky power to master, and to invoke.
@schrodingers-katana: A good writer can write from the viewpoint of a character very different from themselves. And there are some good (and some very good) writers in comics these days. The problem may be that for the reasons outlined above, even the good ones feel a need to make that statement. It's tough to write an action-adventure title and deliver a social message. Things can collapse pretty easy under that weight.
You know, I have a suspicion that the first truly successful black superhero will be written by the first author who learns to never or rarely think of the character as a black superhero. Just as a superhero.
@Briareosdx: I agree, and I'm alittle annoyed at how 'Xorqua' from planet Glornak 7 is more relateable to people than War Machine or Luke Cage. After all 'we are all alien to each other' and it should be the qualities we see in the characters that matter not the pigment of their skin
@Dimbo_Sama: I don't think it's so simple. An American reader doesn't have any real history with Glornakians or Kryptonians outside of encountering them within their fictive worlds. But even a sheltered reader will be aware in some degree of the history of blacks in America, or will have had his views influenced by media portrayals.
Maybe the crux of the problem is symbolism. Okay, I'm going deep into Lacanian territory here, but follow me: All literature is by it's nature symbollic. The word "Tree" is not an actual tree, but a symbol for a tree. (insert Choamsky blather here) So when an author (and particularly an American author) is creating a new character for their comic or novel or whatever, it's very tempting to make the choice about the race of your character be a symbolic one. In fact, it's very hard not to make it symbolic, because many of your critics and readers will still see it as a symbolic choice. They'll see the character and will have to engage that history on at least some level in order to identify with them.
That can be quite a burden, but it's one that people can overcome, particularly with good writing to help.
Well duh. Everyone knows that all blacks have to be liberals, or else they will be mercilessly attacked my Sharpton, Jackson et al for being house ******* and other sins.
@Canoehead: Actually, most black people in the US are rather socially conservative. They just don't vote conservative because our (alleged) conservative party has opened its arms to a whole bunch of people who don't like black people very much ever since the '70s (cf: Southern Strategy)
@HeartBurnKid: They need to do some reading then. Jim Crow laws and the like were made up mostly by Dems.
Personally I think black people have shortchanged themselves terribly. Decades of voting Dem have gotten them mostly nothing because the Dem politicians have convinced them that voting conservative is "racist".
@HeartBurnKid: Agent of R.O.A.C.H.: @ConAir34: Well, by giving the Dem Party their unquestioning, lockstep support, blacks in America have certainly increased their negotiating leverage.
@ConAir34: I think you need to do some reading. You could start with my post, which said "since the '70s".
Many of the Southern Democrats who backed Jim Crow got forced out of the party and snatched up by the Republicans (Strom Thurmond being the most prominent example). Beyond that, the Republicans openly courted Southerners who felt betrayed by LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act and fearful of the newly-empowered black men in their midst. They really weren't particularly subtle about it then, unlike now (when they do much the same thing, but don't voice it quite as loudly).
@HeartBurnKid: Agent of R.O.A.C.H.: Wow, this got political fast. I think I'll chime in.
Or to put it another way, it's an unoffical part of the republican party platform to be a douche. I usually vote dem. Not because Im in any way convinced of the greatness of the party ( not at all ) but because so many republicans are flaming psychos.
A historical look at the two US political parties is always incredibly revealing and easily confusing - way more convoluted than the political history of Labour and the Dem's over here.
@ConAir34: Oh, believe me, I know it's not as simple as "Republicans are racist, Democrats are not". After all, the Democrats do still count Robert Byrd among their number. But really, it seems silly to say that blacks are shortchanging themselves by voting Democrat or that Democrats convinced blacks that voting Republican is racist when the Republicans have spent the better part of 30 years chasing the blacks away to get the votes of white Southerners, and are only now even reconsidering the strategy.
Edited by HeartBurnKid: Agent of R.O.A.C.H. at 11/23/09 9:36 AM
HeartBurnKid: Agent of R.O.A.C.H. was starred
HeartBurnKid: Agent of R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
I'm probably the only one out there, but I miss "The Crew" by Priest et al... it gave us a really interesting version of Rhodey, and seemed to be going someplace really fascinating when it got (as usual for a Priest title) cancelled too soon.
@Charlie Jane Anders: It's not just you. The Crew was a fascinating, smart, book that like everything I've read by Priest was cancelled far, far too soon. If you've not found it yet, try and track down old issues of Xer0. The final issue fell victim to horrific editorial mauling but it at least has a beginning, middle and end.
I've rewritten this post before hitting 'Share' multiple times, so I'm just going to flat-out say it.
John Stewart is NOT a replacement for Hal Jordan in my eyes. I was completely ignorant of the Green Lantern's history as a kid because I didn't understand how to read comic books, but the Justice League cartoon basically solidified John Stewart as the Green Lantern for me.
When I first saw Hal Jordan, I was actually *pissed* because I thought they had killed off John Stewart and replaced him.
John Stewart wasn't the first Green Lantern, but I think he stands out on his own as a good character and I will always think of him before Hal Jordan when I hear the name Green Lantern.
@Rocketknight: For me, who came in to Green Lantern sideways, John, Kyle, and Guy are not replacements either. They're Hal's fellow cops, and they're all different. Hell it's one of the reasons Green Lantern and GLC are my favorite books.
@RoboBagins: Point of fact -- even if you came into Green Lantern frontways, Guy was never a replacement for Hal. Hal was Guy's replacement. Guy was the Guardians' first choice for an Earthling GL, but he had been in an accident and went into a coma (which resulted in him having a completely different personality when he came out of it). True this was all retconned in long after Hal's first appearance, but that's how it stands continuity-wise. Unless they've changed it in the 10 years or so since I regularly read DC's titles.
Thanks,
Communist Pope
President & CEO, His Own Personal GL Fan Club (and by GL he means '80s/'90s-era Guy Gardner)
@Communist Pope: You know damn well the year afteryou stopped reading a time portal opened up to an alternate earth where....etc etc. I can't even begin to figure this stuff out anymore, but I'll ditto Rocket, my first experience with the Green Lantern was the cartoon, and John Stewart, so it's hard to see him as just a replacement.
At least James Rhodes could be said to have reached iconic status. When's the last time you looked at superhero____ and said that____can be seen as the iconic Mexican-American superhero. Or that____is the iconic Filipino American superhero.
@Alasdair5000: And it was a truly valiant attempt. Jaime Reyes's solo book was of the highest quality, it just didn't sell all that well. You have to appreciate that DC is at least keeping the character in the public eye (attaching him to the Booster Gold book and some of the Titans franchises, as well as appearing in Batman:tB&tB repeatedly) and not simply marginalizing him by bringing Ted Kord or Dan Garrett back to life.
Unlike, say, how the return of Ray Palmer has greatly marginalized Ryan Choi.
@PossibleCabbage: Yeah, but Jaime's book was really well-written all the way until its cancellation. Choi was great while Gail Simone was writing the book, but suffered a lot after she left. I think if we had been left remembering Simone's Atom, we might be more eager to see him in more stories.
@PossibleCabbage: That's true, they are doing very, very right by the character (To the tune of him appearing in the current Batman cartoon too if I remember rightly?).
And I miss Ryan Choi. The idea of the Atom living and working on top of what amounted to a Scientific Hellmouth was inspired and Choi's combination of intelligence and charm is great fun to read when done right.
I think Spawn is the quintessential black comic book hero, just like Martin Luther King Jr. is the quintessential black real-life hero; they had to die to be embraced by the dominant culture.
@txtphile: for me the quintessential black superhero was black racer- I always thought that if I could reboot a comic it would be either black racer or brother geek
I love Locke & Key. I actually have that on my site's list of top 5 comics you should be reading as well. It's probably one of the comics I most look forward too every month or so. #5comicsyoushouldbereading
May I suggest Chew?
Chew centers around Tony Chu is a police detective who is "cibopathic," meaning he gets psychic impressions from whatever he eats. [en.wikipedia.org]) #5comicsyoushouldbereading
Thanks for giving Locke &Key the credit it deserves. It's a fantastic, creepy story, and the second volume was one of the trippiest thing's I've read in a while.
I've been thinking of picking up Hill's fiction now. Is Heart-Shaped Box worth reading? #5comicsyoushouldbereading
What was the name of that comic you guys were talking up awhile ago, the one with the girl who gets hit with fragments of an exploded military armor suit, that turns her into this witchblade knockoff? Was looking for it the other day, but couldn't remember the name of it for the life of me. #5comicsyoushouldbereading
One not mentioned but worth checking out if you want a fun story about a girl who whenever she falls asleep she finds herself in an extremely realistic American Revolution setting that may or may not be real. It's a little girly but I am absoulutely in love with The Dreamer. It started as a web comic here:
@Sunshineyness: At first I thought you were going to mention "Dreamless", a web comic set in Hawaii and Japan just before 12/7/1941. An American girl and a Japanese boy who, when asleep, see through the eyes of the one who is awake.
@Sunshineyness: Just checked out "The Dreamer" on the web and added a shortcut to it in my web comics folder. Thanks for the tip. #5comicsyoushouldbereading
Ooh, King City looks and reads AMAZING. I might just pick it up, and I don't really read comics other than Calvin & Hobbes.. #5comicsyoushouldbereading
11/22/09
The funny thing is, I've met many other black comic book fans. Latino comic fans, too. It seems to me like black and/or minority heroes in general should be more successful, but yet there's only a string of cancelled titles. Perhaps the problem is actually the paucity of books with a black protagonist. Since there's usually only a few going on at a time, it's seen as something different from the norm. So a black leading character attracts extra attention, which may increase the pressure on the creative team to make a "statement" about the black/minority experience. And that can turn some people off, Especially if they don't understand, can't relate to, or disagree with that author's statement. Various writers who've worked on Captain America have complained of a similar problem. Simply too much symbolic weight is added to the character, and it becomes leaden.
The other question is one of identification. Much of the old-guard comic book audience is white, and they'll want to see heroes they can identify with, that they can imagine themselves being. So they'll be more interested in protagonists that look like them, or some image of what they want to look like. That's just natural, but it does place an extra onus on a black character.
The weird thing is that books with alien heroes as their protagonist have done just fine. I'd like to think that's because regardless of the color of our skin, we all feel like aliens sometimes.
11/22/09
11/22/09
11/22/09
11/22/09
You know, I have a suspicion that the first truly successful black superhero will be written by the first author who learns to never or rarely think of the character as a black superhero. Just as a superhero.
11/22/09
#calendar
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
Maybe the crux of the problem is symbolism. Okay, I'm going deep into Lacanian territory here, but follow me: All literature is by it's nature symbollic. The word "Tree" is not an actual tree, but a symbol for a tree. (insert Choamsky blather here) So when an author (and particularly an American author) is creating a new character for their comic or novel or whatever, it's very tempting to make the choice about the race of your character be a symbolic one. In fact, it's very hard not to make it symbolic, because many of your critics and readers will still see it as a symbolic choice. They'll see the character and will have to engage that history on at least some level in order to identify with them.
That can be quite a burden, but it's one that people can overcome, particularly with good writing to help.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
Personally I think black people have shortchanged themselves terribly. Decades of voting Dem have gotten them mostly nothing because the Dem politicians have convinced them that voting conservative is "racist".
11/21/09
11/21/09
Many of the Southern Democrats who backed Jim Crow got forced out of the party and snatched up by the Republicans (Strom Thurmond being the most prominent example). Beyond that, the Republicans openly courted Southerners who felt betrayed by LBJ signing the Civil Rights Act and fearful of the newly-empowered black men in their midst. They really weren't particularly subtle about it then, unlike now (when they do much the same thing, but don't voice it quite as loudly).
Try reading this, just to get started.
11/22/09
Or to put it another way, it's an unoffical part of the republican party platform to be a douche. I usually vote dem. Not because Im in any way convinced of the greatness of the party ( not at all ) but because so many republicans are flaming psychos.
11/22/09
A historical look at the two US political parties is always incredibly revealing and easily confusing - way more convoluted than the political history of Labour and the Dem's over here.
11/22/09
It still is nowhere near cut and dry. #calendar
11/22/09
11/23/09
What I meant from the "shortchange" comment is that Dems don't have to work to keep the black vote.
Black people are basically getting nothing but the status quo from Democrats because they give their vote so freely. #tips
11/23/09
That's the dilemma that they face, and it's the same dilemma that I (as a non-Christian) face.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/22/09
11/21/09
John Stewart is NOT a replacement for Hal Jordan in my eyes. I was completely ignorant of the Green Lantern's history as a kid because I didn't understand how to read comic books, but the Justice League cartoon basically solidified John Stewart as the Green Lantern for me.
When I first saw Hal Jordan, I was actually *pissed* because I thought they had killed off John Stewart and replaced him.
John Stewart wasn't the first Green Lantern, but I think he stands out on his own as a good character and I will always think of him before Hal Jordan when I hear the name Green Lantern.
11/21/09
11/21/09
Thanks,
Communist Pope
President & CEO, His Own Personal GL Fan Club (and by GL he means '80s/'90s-era Guy Gardner)
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
Unlike, say, how the return of Ray Palmer has greatly marginalized Ryan Choi.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
And I miss Ryan Choi. The idea of the Atom living and working on top of what amounted to a Scientific Hellmouth was inspired and Choi's combination of intelligence and charm is great fun to read when done right.
11/21/09
Ah, that was bracing.
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
11/21/09
@txtphile: for me the quintessential black superhero was black racer- I always thought that if I could reboot a comic it would be either black racer or brother geek
11/21/09
11/23/09
Though one weird part about the Al Simmon's Spawn is that he somehow came back as a blonde haired, blue eyed white guy.
11/09/09
11/08/09
Chew centers around Tony Chu is a police detective who is "cibopathic," meaning he gets psychic impressions from whatever he eats.
[en.wikipedia.org]) #5comicsyoushouldbereading
11/08/09
I've been thinking of picking up Hill's fiction now. Is Heart-Shaped Box worth reading? #5comicsyoushouldbereading
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/09/09
11/07/09
Her previous book, Cairo was also really good too. #5comicsyoushouldbereading
11/07/09
[thedreamercomic.com]
But it's also available single issue and the first trade is out. #5comicsyoushouldbereading
11/08/09
[dreamless.keenspot.com] #5comicsyoushouldbereading
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/07/09
11/07/09