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With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
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jcous
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
Damn, my heart goes out to this generation. Good luck getting girlfriends.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/15/09

@jcous: The poor and ugly guys are going to be very lonely and have a lot of spare testosterone. That usually means crime and war.
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screaminscott
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
Maybe China will decide to start a war, so they can use all their extra males as 'cannon fodder'.
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twophrasebark
04/14/09

...that's scary.
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twophrasebark
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
What about an emigration program? Seems like that would solve the problem.
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Quilt
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
I can tell you what I'd do. Kill myself. Life without women? No thanks.
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Cozmic
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
you know...when you put all male rats in a cage by, eventually they have sex with each other, so I predict a rise in homosexuality in CHina in coming years (unfortunately I believe homosexuality is illegal in China). I also predict a large(r) amount of male Chinese of this "male" generation will choose to study abroad and seek to stay after college (or at least take a foreign wife before returning). Finally, it should be noted that being male and 18-25 years old are just about the most dangerous things you can be anywhere, so a good number of extra males will probably remove themselves from the gene pool.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/15/09

@Cozmic: So China will start participating in X-Games and XTREEEEEME sports?

I can envision guys doing XTREME sports, MMO, Jackass type stuff and the last man alive gets a wife.
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mustlovebooknerd
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
I foresee women with man-harems and lots of gay secks. :-D
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/15/09

@mustlovebooknerd: Man-harems. Mmmm...
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Chip Overclock
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
Even more interesting, IMHO, than the male/female ratio is the fact that because of the One Child policy, the PRC is raising an entire generation or more of Only Children: children raised with no siblings.

I have no idea what that means. But I think it means something.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/14/09

@Chip Overclock: They call them "little emperors". Coddled and spoiled, used to getting everything they want. Not good.
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corpore-metal
04/15/09

@Chip Overclock: Speaking as an only child myself, I forsee a serious decline in the Chinese ideal of filial piety. Some of these kids might be spoiled and have an undeserved sense of entitlement. A lot of these kids might be vaguely socially withdrawn because both their parents worked and they had no siblings to play, fight and interact with.

All these forces will erode the tradition of filial piety.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/15/09

@corpore-metal: Not to mention, if you are the only child/grandchild, all your ancestors are going to want to be your favorite, emotionally. That puts a lot of pressure on you. In a family where there's siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. you can spread the emotional stuff around -- "he likes Grandma, but I prefer Uncle Lee".

Likely, the kids are playing one against the other to get more toys and candy, but some of them may just say to heck with all of you, leave me alone.
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Life-Without-Buildings
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
In Kim Stanley Robinson's Green Mars, an interesting alternative to this problem is proposed. During a hypothetical overpopulation analysis "game," one character proposes that China allow every adult a credit for 3/4 of a child. Couples then are allowed 1 1/2 children and can either sell their remaining 1/2 credit or buy a 1/2 credit from another couple. If you want a child, you pay and sacrifice, if you need money, you sell your credit and won't have a family you can't support. Prices fluctuate according to standard supply/demand trends.

But how are these things regulated?
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grrl
04/14/09

@Life-Without-Buildings: I brought up the idea of child credits in another post last week. people being able to trade or sell their credits to those who want larger families. but looking at China it doesn't appear that would actually prevent the current problem: which is when parents are valuing one gender over another there, treating it like a business transaction that needs to yield the highest return, then a demographic imbalance will always eventually occur.
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ejs2000
04/14/09

@grrl: So set the credit cost of a boy child as 1.5 credits and a credit cost for a girl child as 0.5 credits. That way a family can automatically have three girl children, or sell half a credit and still have two girl children, who would combined have the earning power of a boy child.

As for how to enforce the gender of the children, I leave that as an exercise to the reader. :-/
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/14/09

@ejs2000: An interesting expansion on the credit idea.
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corpore-metal
04/15/09

@Evil Tortie's Mom: When the subject of child credits was brough up here a few weeks ago on the global warming topic and again by Grrl. I wondered mostly about enforcement mechanisms. Do we have inspectors or something?

I was also wondering about payments. The greed in me wonders what I get paid for avoiding an a lifetime of breeding. I want a specific dollar amount. (Hee,hee! Moola, moola, moola!)

I strongly doubt the child credits idea will be implemented in our country, too many religious nuts and xenophobic racists.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/15/09

@corpore-metal: I want my money too. Now.

You'd need a giant, fairly oppressive bureaucracy (like the ARM in Niven's Known Space books), and no monotheism. Which means it might work in China.
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grrl
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
What I find telling about this post and most of the responses is that they're all concerned about *the men*, treating it like this is a problem for the men, and assuming the women are just going to be some kind of tool to solve this male crisis. mail order brides, prostitution, harems, breeding barns, frustrated gangs of men going on rampages.

It doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone that the women may be the ones with a problem as well. Or that the women will be the ones in control of the problem.

Maybe with all the excess men around the WOMEN will be the ones with harems as a sign of wealth. The ones running prostitution rings made up of men to service women with a variety of options. Maybe the women will be instating polygamy laws and running men mail order brides, allowing women to select exactly what they want. Maybe the men will be the ones in the breeding barns because women will be able to demand the most potent men, or the most physically attractive, or offering the best genes. Maybe men who go on rampages are punished to the most severe extent of the law for putting the few women at risk.

I mean if we're discussing this in the post-apoc fantasy future vibe that many seem to be adopting (including the post itself), then let's not assume the women are just there to cater to the men.

And if we're going to be realistic then how about the concerns for what these means for the women of China, who are already dismissed as less valuable than men from birth. Who might possibly experience more risks to their civil rights and health as a result of aggro men with entitlement issues.

I mean these responses suggest that the world is coming to end because some men might not have sex. Yeah a few sexually frustrated med totally trumps the problems and dangers the women might be facing.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
04/14/09

@grrl: The women are going to be in trouble no matter what. But I agree, it would be nice to see some postings about something other than "oh noes what will the mens do for teh secks!"
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Bloodboiler
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
For ideas about what's going to happen, see any historical or current society that has few women.

Ancient Athens and Sparta, bad prisons etc.

It's going to be very bad to be physically weak Chinese man.
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Trystero
04/14/09

@Bloodboiler: or a poor one.
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Trai_Dep
04/14/09

@Trystero: Well, poor cute ones - with intestinal fortitude - can probably make out. Often. And for a lot.
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BullfightsOnAcid
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
Female prostitution will probably become one of the best paid jobs. Madams and pimps will become more powerful than elected officials.
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Harrison_Bergeron
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
"Some commentators have suggested that China gradually relax its population control policies, allowing people to create families of any size they like within the next ten years." The reason it was instituted in the first place was because of massive over population. China still has around 1.5 billion people, I'd call that problem not solved.
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Annalee Newitz
04/14/09

@Harrison_Bergeron: Agreed.
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rudecherub
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
In agreement with the obvious. This will end in social unrest.

Back in my student days I developed a firm rule, if I find myself at a party where there is disproportionately large number of men, and a handful of women - I make a hasty exit, because the chances of the thing descending into a brawl are very high.
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♥AntiSocialSocialite♥
04/14/09

@rudecherub: that's a legitimate assessment - this from a party planner who has seen this behavior (physically, verbally, testonerone-ally(?)) at events spanning all demographics.

it's gonna get ugly.
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Trai_Dep
04/14/09

@rudecherub: OK, but did the winning guy take his "perquisite" from the losing brawler?
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Mark 2000
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
I'm sorry, but this is great. Both China and India are way over populated and both have an excess of boys. This is good for them and good for us. Fewer women mean fewer babies and this planet cannot handle anymore babies. Its either this or some really horrible population decimation through lack of resources.
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Neil Chilson
04/14/09

@Mark 2000: Ok, Malthus. Population naysayers since Malthus on ahve been wrong wrong wrong about humanities ability to develop new resources sufficient to support a growing population.

Necessity truly is the mother of invention, after all. It may be the most important mother China will have...
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Gann
04/14/09

@Neil Chilson: Just because we haven't gone off a cliff yet does not mean that it is not there.
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Trai_Dep
04/14/09

@Neil Chilson: Better personal grooming products to make excess males more appealing to other excess males?

Stock tip: 24-Hour Fitness - China, long!
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Lifeisaglitch
04/14/09

In reply to With 32.7 Million "Excess Males," What Will Become of China?
Well they could have done without a one child policy....But that would have been bad. The blame lies on the families who chose too have gender based abortions. But really considering their situation (needing the labour) and its hard too blame them. The best solution would have been to modernize and industrialize large parts of rural China..unfortunately thats not something you just do...And its not like they havent actually done that to a large extent.

A very unfortunate situation...But nature is gonna balance it out. Fewer women larger population and the gender balance will restore itself as they modernize....Question is ...With a bunch of sexually frustrated chinese males...are we screwed?? O__O
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crashedpc - Haifisch
04/14/09

@Lifeisaglitch: Hurr... screwed.
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Annalee Newitz
04/14/09

@Lifeisaglitch: The best solution would be to treat both men and women as wage-earners. That way, women can support their parents in old age.
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Mav
04/14/09

@Annalee Newitz: Now you're just talking crazy talk.

For srs, women aren't even paid equally here.
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