Things change.... the european global empires of the 17th through 20th centuries, mainly the British, French and Belgians all crumbled and diminished, but they didn't disappear... things just changed. It's the natural cycle of human societies and politics. America will be around for a long time, it just might not play the same roles globally in the economic, military or even cultural stages...
I'm not scared of change, just intrigued by the possibilities.
@Skenderbeg: You are absolutely right, and Icelight is badly mistaken, undoubtedly addled by that huge pitcher of Mother Jones Kool-Aid Mommie made him with supper. It was either that or Red Bull, and he's very hard to get to bed if he drinks Red Bull that late in the day. The Skittles and Cheetos don't help either.
@SprinklesTDD: I'd be happy living in any universe where a guy can buy his own ship, put all his stuff on board, and never have to move again. Plus, I kind of always wanted to be an intergalactic bounty hunter...
If you ask me, our government interfering with and manipulating the private market/economy is a big reason behind the current decline of the United States.
Frequently enough, greed and capitalistic evil are more encouraged when you have government that imposes such massive, costly regulation that it is rendered nigh-impossible for new companies to set up shop. This protects the monopolies and oligopolies of corporate giants.
You can't be surprised that some huge firm will grow corrupt and engage in criminal behavior when there's no room for real competition to keep their avarice in check, all thanks to Washington bureaucrats playing favorites.
@Mathmos: More like the Democrats in Congress helping their buddies in Freddie and Fannie to nearly sink the world economy, AND manage to do it to their advantage right before a major election.
@ReddHeretic: Well, he derivatives market was unregulated. Even companies like Goldman Sachs didnt even know what they were trading. What you have here is immeasurable greed breaking the system completely. Computer scientists created finance models for things they didnt even understand.
Competition, as it is with the free market, is bad for business. Not for my business or your business, but for the ones at the top who make tons of money. Thus you have a situation where the free market is actively resisting the corporate monopolies and cartels. This eventually breaks the system, all thanks to unchecked greed and stupidity.
Im not saying the free market is a bad idea.Im just saying that we need to reign in on totally irresponsible behavior on the part of fat cat CEO's (many of whom arent as smart as they need to be).
Mecharine sums it up pretty well. Laissez faire capitalism (or any purely competitive system) is self-destructive. Once somebody gets to the top of the competitive pyramid, they can rig the game (by lobbying the government, out-bidding competitors, etc.) to maintain and increase their power at the expense of everybody below them.
A truly free market has to be a fair market; and the only way to keep it fair is a certain level of regulation.
@Anekanta: "Laissez faire capitalism (or any purely competitive system) is self-destructive. Once somebody gets to the top of the competitive pyramid, they can rig the game (by lobbying the government, out-bidding competitors, etc.) to maintain and increase their power at the expense of everybody below them."
Wow - textbook regurgitation of ancient attacks on capitalism. You would think people would at least get new material.
First, lets note the straw man established here. A social system which permits govt interference into the free market ("rig the game", "lobbying", etc) is NOT laissez faire capitalism. A system which is "purely competitive" by definition would NOT allow such interference. So you are complaining about statism here but blaming capitalism - which is exactly what is being done in regards to today's financial 'crisis'.
You explicitly admit here that *govt* interference in the market is the problem. Yet instead of seeking ways to stop such govt interference, you seek to INCREASE that interference. In other words, you demand govt "regulation" of the free market because the *govt* is not regulated enough. That is like demanding more poison after you have been poisoned.
Talk about "self-destructive."
Put simply, there is no such thing as a "fair market". There is only a free market. And in it, there will be those who succeed and those who fail. There will be those who, because they are more successful can build on that success, where others because they are not as successful cannot compete with them. That is a BENEFIT not a problem.
A "fair market" is simply someone pulling out a gun and forbidding free human interaction - instead demanding THEIR DICTATES be obeyed. Its time to put the guns down and do away with the thuggery - rather than demanding MORE of it.
1) They spent a lot of money to build this thing in the first place. Now that's finished, they have to expect maintenance.
2) This thing has a very specific goal: Find or fail to find the Higgs boson. The first experiments haven't even started yet.
3) No one has ever built a machine like this before, unexpected failures can happen and have to be dealt with. I pretty sure the planners knew this going in.
4) This is mostly an EU project (I mean I know it's true an international project with funding and staff from all around the world but--). I think there is a little quasi-nationalist pride involved with this because of that. The Europeans want to show Asia and North America what's what.
5) 21 million is tiny in comparison to what national governments, even pretty small ones, spend many other programs.
When you spend that much money significant social inertia is generated. We're in it now. If they decided to stop it today, it might take a few years for it to slowly grind to a halt.
6) On a project this size and complexity, the contractor has the upper hand on negotiating small additional fees. It's not the smartest thing to dole something like this out to the lowest bidder.
@Gann: I'm not sure the funding and building of the LHC was handled in the same way as defense or other government contracts are in the US so, I don't think the sixth point is a good one.
In the case of the Higgs, well, probably not, but we won't know until we try right? The experiment is clearly defined--we have a very good idea what the mass of the Higgs should be--and the Higgs is required by the Standard Model, if we don't find it, the Standard Model must be revised.
@corpore-metal: It's not so much a contract issue as it is a pragmatic one. Do you a) pay a little extra to get the work done by someone you're familiar with who you know knows the project, or do you b) hire someone else to save a little $?
@ReubenJiblical: not just liquid helium. mere liquid helium is for science projects, no the LHC is cooled by superflid helium. a substance that literally flows uphill under the right conditions. cool indeed (pun intended).
Yes, it can. $21 million is chump change, especially for governments. For example, the current powerball jackpot is $50 million, raised by asking people to throw their money away - there's profit on top of the jackpot, too.
The LHC has already cost enough that repairs on this scale are going to go through, it's just a matter of when.
@Klebert L. Hall: what a succinct and level-headed way to evalute such an absurd claim. further bolstering your argument is the location of the LHC and it's source of funding, Europe.
11/22/08
I'm not scared of change, just intrigued by the possibilities.
11/22/08
(Je cherche a vous, France.)
11/23/08
11/22/08
I'm just sayin the facts
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/23/08
11/22/08
i'm just sayin <_<
11/22/08
11/22/08
and they would make it worse without any bailouts too... nice huh?
11/23/08
11/22/08
I'm just saying. >_>
11/22/08
I'm just saying. >_>
11/22/08
Frequently enough, greed and capitalistic evil are more encouraged when you have government that imposes such massive, costly regulation that it is rendered nigh-impossible for new companies to set up shop. This protects the monopolies and oligopolies of corporate giants.
You can't be surprised that some huge firm will grow corrupt and engage in criminal behavior when there's no room for real competition to keep their avarice in check, all thanks to Washington bureaucrats playing favorites.
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
11/22/08
Competition, as it is with the free market, is bad for business. Not for my business or your business, but for the ones at the top who make tons of money. Thus you have a situation where the free market is actively resisting the corporate monopolies and cartels. This eventually breaks the system, all thanks to unchecked greed and stupidity.
Im not saying the free market is a bad idea.Im just saying that we need to reign in on totally irresponsible behavior on the part of fat cat CEO's (many of whom arent as smart as they need to be).
11/22/08
11/22/08
Mecharine sums it up pretty well. Laissez faire capitalism (or any purely competitive system) is self-destructive. Once somebody gets to the top of the competitive pyramid, they can rig the game (by lobbying the government, out-bidding competitors, etc.) to maintain and increase their power at the expense of everybody below them.
A truly free market has to be a fair market; and the only way to keep it fair is a certain level of regulation.
ACyclicUniverse is right--there needs to be a balance.
11/23/08
Wow - textbook regurgitation of ancient attacks on capitalism. You would think people would at least get new material.
First, lets note the straw man established here. A social system which permits govt interference into the free market ("rig the game", "lobbying", etc) is NOT laissez faire capitalism. A system which is "purely competitive" by definition would NOT allow such interference. So you are complaining about statism here but blaming capitalism - which is exactly what is being done in regards to today's financial 'crisis'.
You explicitly admit here that *govt* interference in the market is the problem. Yet instead of seeking ways to stop such govt interference, you seek to INCREASE that interference. In other words, you demand govt "regulation" of the free market because the *govt* is not regulated enough. That is like demanding more poison after you have been poisoned.
Talk about "self-destructive."
Put simply, there is no such thing as a "fair market". There is only a free market. And in it, there will be those who succeed and those who fail. There will be those who, because they are more successful can build on that success, where others because they are not as successful cannot compete with them. That is a BENEFIT not a problem.
A "fair market" is simply someone pulling out a gun and forbidding free human interaction - instead demanding THEIR DICTATES be obeyed. Its time to put the guns down and do away with the thuggery - rather than demanding MORE of it.
11/23/08
Don't you make me pull out this flamethrower.
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
1) They spent a lot of money to build this thing in the first place. Now that's finished, they have to expect maintenance.
2) This thing has a very specific goal: Find or fail to find the Higgs boson. The first experiments haven't even started yet.
3) No one has ever built a machine like this before, unexpected failures can happen and have to be dealt with. I pretty sure the planners knew this going in.
4) This is mostly an EU project (I mean I know it's true an international project with funding and staff from all around the world but--). I think there is a little quasi-nationalist pride involved with this because of that. The Europeans want to show Asia and North America what's what.
5) 21 million is tiny in comparison to what national governments, even pretty small ones, spend many other programs.
When you spend that much money significant social inertia is generated. We're in it now. If they decided to stop it today, it might take a few years for it to slowly grind to a halt.
11/17/08
6) On a project this size and complexity, the contractor has the upper hand on negotiating small additional fees. It's not the smartest thing to dole something like this out to the lowest bidder.
BTW, they won't find the Higgs Boson.
11/17/08
In the case of the Higgs, well, probably not, but we won't know until we try right? The experiment is clearly defined--we have a very good idea what the mass of the Higgs should be--and the Higgs is required by the Standard Model, if we don't find it, the Standard Model must be revised.
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/19/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
11/17/08
Yes, it can. $21 million is chump change, especially for governments. For example, the current powerball jackpot is $50 million, raised by asking people to throw their money away - there's profit on top of the jackpot, too.
The LHC has already cost enough that repairs on this scale are going to go through, it's just a matter of when.
-Kle.
11/17/08