The big bang is a theory just like all the others. Hell, there's no direct evidence the earth's core is molten. Theory. Why not let 'em all in and let the people decide, ya know?
1. Reality is not decided by consensus.
2. That the earth's core is molten can (and has) been determined by testing the effects and strength of the magnetosphere at various locations, which fits predictions. This is what science allows you to do: make predictions, and check that they are true.
3. The "Theory != fact" canard is tired. A theory in science is the final step in the scientific method. It means "tested by experiment and fitting current results," not "some random guess".
The great part is that this is basically Idiocracy 2, writing itself.
Using McLeroy's (really?) special brand of magic monkey science, I've fixed all of the problems like this - I no longer believe in his existence, and the more evidence that is presented to me, the more I will disbelieve in him. Someone has to stand up to these nonexistents.
Now I'm off to keep planning tomorrow's Global Warming lesson for my 6th grade science classes.
To play the devil's advocate, isn't it theorized that before the Big Bang there was a Big Crunch, and whole thing is a cycle that's happened many times over, helped along by the addition of many minute amounts of quantum particles? I believe the theory is called the Big Bounce (because astrophysicists are creative people who like things big, I guess?).
So, for certain definitions of the universe, under certain unproven theories, wouldn't the answer actually be many times more than 14 billion?
Sciences are sure of their uncertainties, thats what makes science a better way of doing things.
It has margins of error.
If children are taught science correctly...as a PROCESS...and not just a bunch of facts, the children themselves will be able to see whats nonsense and whats not.
I mean think of it this way;
Conversation 1;
"a) How old is the universe
b) well, using light redshift, combined with various other measures we can see its accelerating at this speed. Now, assuming the gravitational constant say the same we can extrapolate back and say its roughly this old.
a) What if the constant doesn't stay the sam...."
Conversation 2:
"a) How old is the universe
b) This book told me its 6500 years old.
a) Umm...but tree rings alone can show the world is earlier then that.
b) The tree rings lie.
a) Who made them lie
b) err..."
It doesn't actually mater so much if a child believes the first explanation or not. If they can pick holes in the methods used to deduce the age thats FANTASTIC.
We -shouldn't- be teaching these things as hard facts for them to accept.
The important thing is they are educated so they can see themselves second explanation is nonsense.
Teach them the tools to seperate science from fiction. (...and science fiction from urban fantasy :p)
If they understand the scientific process, their doughts don't become holes for people to plug with nonsense.
In science, the goal may be certainty, but admitting the lack of it is its greatest strength.
Unfortunately for your theory, if one, especially a child who is totally open to accepting outside agency, accepts those two premises, it becomes very difficult to establish that anything is nonsense.
In other words, how do you get them to accept Process in the first place?
@twDarkflame: the flaw in either process is they both start with the person being taught. what if they are two young, ignorant, or stupid to ask the right questions?
if the only way to aproximate the age of the universe was redshifting and i was so mentally deficenct i were incapable of understanding the analysis required to explain redshifting then i would have to take the age of the univese on faith and without question because i would have no idea how to question it.
@tetracycloide: The difference is, the scientist can provide you formulas and facts on how he got to his conclusions, regardless of whether you were ever taught the process or your ablility/willingness to understand it. There is a REASON for it. (And that's certainly not to say science can't be faked for personal agendas precisely on the premise that no one can understand it to question it, but it's unlikely you're the ONLY person who can and will likely be found out evetually).
@TemporalSword: if someone is incapable of understanding the analysis that is used to arrive at said formulas and facts then i would submit that from their perspective whatever science is in question is indistinguishable from magic/religion.
I LOVED this post! A roller-coaster of emotion, and very much filled with learning stuff. Cowboys in space fighting evil corporate scientists, what an original idea, this wood be great for young readers! Annylee is a very talented aurthur, you should all bay all her books on Amazon.com right now!
crashedpc is for 6 is the most exciting new romance novelist since Jacky Collins. Her bodice-ripping adventures are very delightful, this wood be great for young readers! you should all bay all her books on Amazon.com right now!
@Grey_Area: *loud swearing* You reviewed "fuck a duck" but chastise me for alluding to a curse word? You... you... motherplucker, you son of a biscuit, you fruitcaking limptard!
@crashedpc is for 6 is a great mysery writer...Delightful! [5 stars] the story line is fast paced and never slows down [5 stars] It's a womberful cookbook! [5 stars] [5 stars] fans of the {insert series title} will enjoy there latest escapades [5 stars] this wood be great [5 stars] for young readers! [5 stars] it's his sled! [5 stars] Samuel Butler did it [5 stars] engaging drama [5 stars] [5 stars] [5 stars] Daisy, Daaaiisssseee [5 stars]
superbgothicspaceagevictoriant...[5 stars]
A fun-filled romp!
It's full of
[5 stars]
[5 stars]
[5 stars]
[4 stars]
[3 stars]
[2 stars]
Program is not responding.
Reboot the HRe8 Klausnet now.
Contact your system administrator if problem continues.
Our current governor is a lovely man by the name of Rick Perry, who has been in office since Bush left and is doing an admirable job of assuring the citizens of Texas (many of whom are very upset by this news item, stereotypes aside) that we won't have to change a bit of our anti-science, religiously-run administration.
You're welcome to move here and vote him out of office, we could use some help.
Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be from this backwards state. Don't think that this represents most Texans however. The problem is that the people in charge are all moronic fundamentalists.
I think it's fine if Texas wants to ignore science and its discoveries. They'll probably have to give back all those oil wells though and have their cars run on pure Jesus Juice.
@Garrison Dean: No they don't! Oil is formed by angel tears, not millions of years of high pressure turning ancient organic material into crude oil! And cars will be supplanted by flaming chariots across the sky.
@Garrison Dean: oil is jesus juice. the earth is only ~6k years old so the only logical explanation for oil being trapped beneath the earth's crust is that jesus spilled his juice during creation or his re ascension into heaven (depending on which denomination you belong to) and it seeped deep into the earth between the tectonic plates like so much liquid between sofa cushions. which is why, every sunday while watching the cowboys, we drink beer and if any spills on the couch we scream 'Jesus Christ!'
Note to Texas: perhaps you didn't hear President Obama when he said science was going to be put back in its rightful place. Keep it up if you want to be ceded back to Mexico.
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
04/03/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
1. Reality is not decided by consensus.
2. That the earth's core is molten can (and has) been determined by testing the effects and strength of the magnetosphere at various locations, which fits predictions. This is what science allows you to do: make predictions, and check that they are true.
3. The "Theory != fact" canard is tired. A theory in science is the final step in the scientific method. It means "tested by experiment and fitting current results," not "some random guess".
04/01/09
04/01/09
Using McLeroy's (really?) special brand of magic monkey science, I've fixed all of the problems like this - I no longer believe in his existence, and the more evidence that is presented to me, the more I will disbelieve in him. Someone has to stand up to these nonexistents.
Now I'm off to keep planning tomorrow's Global Warming lesson for my 6th grade science classes.
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
So, for certain definitions of the universe, under certain unproven theories, wouldn't the answer actually be many times more than 14 billion?
04/01/09
04/01/09
It has margins of error.
If children are taught science correctly...as a PROCESS...and not just a bunch of facts, the children themselves will be able to see whats nonsense and whats not.
I mean think of it this way;
Conversation 1;
"a) How old is the universe
b) well, using light redshift, combined with various other measures we can see its accelerating at this speed. Now, assuming the gravitational constant say the same we can extrapolate back and say its roughly this old.
a) What if the constant doesn't stay the sam...."
Conversation 2:
"a) How old is the universe
b) This book told me its 6500 years old.
a) Umm...but tree rings alone can show the world is earlier then that.
b) The tree rings lie.
a) Who made them lie
b) err..."
It doesn't actually mater so much if a child believes the first explanation or not. If they can pick holes in the methods used to deduce the age thats FANTASTIC.
We -shouldn't- be teaching these things as hard facts for them to accept.
The important thing is they are educated so they can see themselves second explanation is nonsense.
Teach them the tools to seperate science from fiction. (...and science fiction from urban fantasy :p)
If they understand the scientific process, their doughts don't become holes for people to plug with nonsense.
In science, the goal may be certainty, but admitting the lack of it is its greatest strength.
04/01/09
a) Who wrote the book?
b) God.
a) Who made the tree rings lie?
b) The Devil.
Unfortunately for your theory, if one, especially a child who is totally open to accepting outside agency, accepts those two premises, it becomes very difficult to establish that anything is nonsense.
In other words, how do you get them to accept Process in the first place?
04/01/09
1. Curiosity is awesome. Always question and search for a deeper meaning.
2. Stop blindly accepting something as truth and find out WHY it is/is not the truth.
04/01/09
1. Who do you think I am? Eve?
2. Who are you? The Devil?
04/01/09
if the only way to aproximate the age of the universe was redshifting and i was so mentally deficenct i were incapable of understanding the analysis required to explain redshifting then i would have to take the age of the univese on faith and without question because i would have no idea how to question it.
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
The other way is simply, "because I said so."
04/01/09
04/01/09
[5 stars]
04/01/09
04/01/09
A fun-filled romp, very exciting new idears, this wood be great for young readers! I cant wait for the next novel from this promising new writer!
you should all bye this books on Amazon.com right now!
[4 ½ stars]
04/01/09
04/01/09
[5+1 stars]
04/01/09
Gotta love how the yung reeder wood love a bodiseripper adventure.
04/01/09
[5+2 stars]
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
superbgothicspaceagevictoriant...[5 stars]
A fun-filled romp!
It's full of
[5 stars]
[5 stars]
[5 stars]
[4 stars]
[3 stars]
[2 stars]
Program is not responding.
Reboot the HRe8 Klausnet now.
Contact your system administrator if problem continues.
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
Whoopsie!
04/01/09
Texas hasn't changed, adapted, grown, or evolved, in at least 14 Billion Years.
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
Our current governor is a lovely man by the name of Rick Perry, who has been in office since Bush left and is doing an admirable job of assuring the citizens of Texas (many of whom are very upset by this news item, stereotypes aside) that we won't have to change a bit of our anti-science, religiously-run administration.
You're welcome to move here and vote him out of office, we could use some help.
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/03/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
04/01/09
Let them head back to Mexico. What good thing has ever come from Texas?
04/01/09
That is all.
04/02/09
04/02/09