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San Francisco, 9:43 PM
Thu Dec 17
28 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of pixysix pixysix
    12/08/09

    In reply to Charting the Possible Evolution of Same-Sex Liaisons
    For the record, I love the gay community. I lived on Davie street in Vancouver for three years and it's a very endearing community. I just want to clarify because it's a hot button issue if people misinterpret my meaning (which is always possible in a text-based chat)

    Anyways, for the last few years I've kind of figured that homosexuality IS nature's birth control. Everything is supposed to be in balance for the Earth's ecosystem to survive. We have cures for many kinds of infertility and very few women in the developed world die in childbirth anymore. We've cheekily removed the real danger from nearly every disease and natural disaster that the Earth currently has. We can't reabsorb fetuses in the womb when the den is overcrowded (as rabbits do) and we're well past three times the number of humans that the Earth could safely sustain so I think that homosexuality may be a natural form of population control. I know that it has always been around, but I still think that I'm on to something.

    It's hard to convince humans to stop having sex so if they want to have sex in ways that can't possibly cause procreation we can at least put a small dent in the population explosion (population nuclear winter?) Never mind fruitful, go forth and be FABULOUS!
     Reply
    Klebert L. Hall promoted this comment pixysix was starred pixysix was unstarred
    Image of Klebert L. Hall Klebert L. Hall
    12/09/09

    @pixysix:
    You're seeing patterns where they generally don't exist - most of the more complex "natural feedback" ideas are pretty much indistinguishable from conspiracy theories, intellectual-rigor-wise.

    The problem is, that when other animal species overpopulate their environment, you don't suddenly see vast increases in homosexual behavior. Another problem with this idea is that the mechanism for what you propose is difficult to imagine, and even harder to demonstrate.

    Generally, the "control mechanism" for overpopulation is mass starvation.
    -Kle.
     Reply
    Klebert L. Hall was starred Klebert L. Hall was unstarred
    Image of pixysix pixysix
    12/09/09

    @Klebert L. Hall: but we've generally eliminated that possibility, too. It's a horrible solution where we in developed worlds develop 'psychosis' like binge eating and then cure all of the side effects of obesity while we hold food out of the hands of starving third world countries.

    Mass starvation can take out other overpopulated animal species before any larger measure is needed because they don't farm and don't have trade agreements.

    I'm not saying that homosexuality is nature's main method of human population control, I'm just saying that nature tries many things at once to keep the planet in check. Homosexuality is not something to be 'cured' so we don't fight it the way that we do genetic heart conditions. Ergo, it has a chance to fill the space in the pop. control department that some minor heart defect used to have.
     Reply
    pixysix was starred pixysix was unstarred
    Image of Klebert L. Hall Klebert L. Hall
    12/11/09

    @pixysix:
    "but we've generally eliminated that possibility, too. "

    Nah, we just aren't actually overpopulated by regular standards yet, outside of some relatively small regions.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see less people. However, nature encourages increases in population up to the carrying capacity limit. There's no evidence of a strong species-diversity-encouraging mechanism.
    -Kle.
     Reply
    Klebert L. Hall was starred Klebert L. Hall was unstarred
    Image of Anekanta - Go Play! Anekanta - Go Play!
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    I'm still skeptical about how well fruitfly mating habits scale to human mating habits; especially in how "fitness" is defined.

    Are we talking physical, mental, social, or emotional fitness? Surely there is more to fitness than simply fecundity.

    Also, is it possible that there's a downside to having too healthy or too fit a population? (over-population / over-consumption of resources; over-specialization, etc.)?

    I'm not well versed in biology, but it just seems like any concept of fitness is highly dependent on the environmental context an organism finds itself in.
     Reply
    Anekanta - Go Play! was starred Anekanta - Go Play! was unstarred
    Image of Annalee Newitz Annalee Newitz
    12/08/09

    @Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon: I don't believe the scientists suggested there was much of a connection between fruitfly and human mating habits. Humans are affected by a lot of factors other than pure evolutionary urges. In other words, there is no Lady Gaga of fruitflies.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz was starred Annalee Newitz was unstarred
    Image of Dresan Dresan
    12/08/09

    @Annalee Newitz: We think we are but really, in the whole scheme of nature, we're just another animal.

    ...

    An animal capable of LOVE.

    #biology
     Reply
    Dresan was starred Dresan was unstarred
    Image of Anekanta - Go Play! Anekanta - Go Play!
    12/08/09

    @Annalee Newitz: I guess that's just as well--one Lady Gaga on planet Earth seems like more than enough already.
     Reply
    Anekanta - Go Play! was starred Anekanta - Go Play! was unstarred
    Image of Delphinus100 Delphinus100
    12/09/09

    @Dresan: Which doesn't change the issue. We don't always mate/marry for love, and we're capable of falling in love with a variety of body-types...
     Reply
    Dresan promoted this comment Delphinus100 was starred Delphinus100 was unstarred
    Image of GarnetLynne GarnetLynne
    12/09/09

    @Anekanta - Go Play!: unfortuantely we aren't fruitflies and we've over populated the world even with the weak and infirmed. And humans are killing each other off like rats in a maze. If we were fruitflies we would have a short cycle and less population.
     Reply
    Anekanta - Go Play! promoted this comment GarnetLynne was starred GarnetLynne was unstarred
    Image of Anekanta - Go Play! Anekanta - Go Play!
    12/09/09

    @GarnetLynne: I agree that there are too many people on the planet, but I don't think we can really evaluate them on the basis of "weakness" or infirmity. Do you mean physically weak? Mentally, socially, emotionally, or morally weak?

    Like in the original post, what qualifies as "fitness"?
     Reply
    Anekanta - Go Play! was starred Anekanta - Go Play! was unstarred
    Image of GarnetLynne GarnetLynne
    12/10/09

    @Anekanta - Go Play!: well there are standards set by the medical community. So I presume they mean people who are in good health albeit, mental and physical.
    The big boys set the standards, and they can't live up to them either.
    Just look at the person who commited suicide in the military. He was a healthy person, so they thought. Once again it's subjective and the powers that be who decide, I guess that is what plastic surgery is all about, looking your best and appearing to be healthy, whatever that is.
     Reply
    GarnetLynne was starred GarnetLynne was unstarred
    Image of Faustic_Caust Faustic_Caust
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    @tetracycloide: "we select for extraordinary not fitness"& @Roklimber: "As I understand, one of the most important requirements for a gene pool to produce individuals that adapt easily to changes in their environment is genetic diversity.
    And that's exactly what the fruitfly male behavior achieves. By harassing the bigger and more fecund females, giving a chance to the lesser fit fenales..."

    Combining together the two sentiments here, it seems that human mating preferences are spot on; if genetic diversity is correlated with fitness with respect to disease resistance and such, then favoring phenotypic (and ostensibly genetic) outliers keeps a suite of non-common, potentially beneficial traits in play.

    Furthermore, our technologies of social organization seem fundamentally different from those of the fruitfly: the beautiful/talented/remarkable are voted more resources by the economy, and our customs and laws prevent them from wasting their time being raped all day.
     Reply
    SJ_Edwards promoted this comment Faustic_Caust was starred Faustic_Caust was unstarred
    Image of Plague Plague
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    Well, at least the skeleton isn't photoshopped.
     Reply
    Plague was starred Plague was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    12/08/09

    @Plague: are you kidding? there's no way those lumbar vertebrae are real!
     Reply
    tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of Agent355 Agent355
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    "fruitfly sperm is toxic." Immediately made me think of a fruitfly Brintey Spears...

    "With a taste of your proboscis
    I'm on a ride
    You're toxic
    I'm slipping under
    With a taste of Drosophila paradise
    I'm addicted to you
    Don't you know that you're toxic"
     Reply
    MISS MERCY STREET promoted this comment Agent355 was starred Agent355 was unstarred
    Image of golddiggersof2033 golddiggersof2033
    12/08/09

    @Agent355: Well done.
     Reply
    golddiggersof2033 was starred golddiggersof2033 was unstarred
    Image of Dash_Stryker Dash_Stryker
    12/08/09

    @Agent355: "I hit it like this, I hit like that, I hit it with a Woffle ball bat." -The Beastie Boys.
     Reply
    Dash_Stryker was starred Dash_Stryker was unstarred
    Image of ReiRei0 ReiRei0
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    So... this has to do with science fiction... how, exactly?
     Reply
    golddiggersof2033 promoted this comment ReiRei0 was starred ReiRei0 was unstarred
    Image of ExtensionOfBob ExtensionOfBob
    12/08/09

    @ReiRei0: I think there has been a precedent set from day one in which science non-fiction is also fair game, and while this doesn't on first glance seem to be in same category as pictures of space because of its sexiness, its sexiness does not immediately render it irrelevant...as you can't have science fiction without science and you can't have sexy science fiction without sexy science.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment ExtensionOfBob was starred ExtensionOfBob was unstarred
    Image of etwarrior etwarrior
    12/08/09

    @ReiRei0: try clicking on that big "SCIENCE" link at the top of the page and count the number of articles that aren't "science fiction".

    It's interesting science information which io9 provides a delightful supply of. This supply of information also generally makes my days better, so fie on you for complaining about it.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment etwarrior was starred etwarrior was unstarred
    Image of golddiggersof2033 golddiggersof2033
    12/08/09

    @ReiRei0: Because science fiction is... ummmmm... based on scientific ideas? 20 years from now, there may be an entire novel saga based on the mating of fruit flies in space.

    If you think it's dull, don't click on it. I don't give two shakes about Avatar (sh!!!) so I just don't visit those posts.
     Reply
    golddiggersof2033 was starred golddiggersof2033 was unstarred
    Image of tipsymongoose tipsymongoose
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    "the mating process is itself damaging to the health of the females - fruitfly sperm is toxic."

    I so could have gone through my whole life without ever needing to know that bit of information.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment tipsymongoose was starred tipsymongoose was unstarred
    Image of blackoak blackoak
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    Doesn't this argument (maintaining mediocrity) work only by presuming that we all have the same tastes/look for the exact same attributes in a mate?

    I'm sure the study addresses this point (or I've just asked a stupid question - not for the first time) but I've missed it.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment blackoak was starred blackoak was unstarred
    Image of Annalee Newitz Annalee Newitz
    12/08/09

    @blackoak: I think you are confusing fruitfly psychology with human psychology!
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz was starred Annalee Newitz was unstarred
    Image of BullfightsOnAcid BullfightsOnAcid
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    "Baby, you are so hot. You are fecund to none."
     Reply
    BullfightsOnAcid was starred BullfightsOnAcid was unstarred
    Image of Dash_Stryker Dash_Stryker
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    that's why skinny girls stop menstrating!
     Reply
    Dash_Stryker was starred Dash_Stryker was unstarred
    Image of Hahaue Hahaue
    12/08/09

    @Dash_Stryker: "Nothing tastes as good as thin feels."
     Reply
    SJ_Edwards promoted this comment Hahaue was starred Hahaue was unstarred
    Image of Vulcan Has No Moon Vulcan Has No Moon
    12/08/09

    @Hahaue: Kate Moss must have gone her entire life without tasting Belgian chocolates.
     Reply
    Vulcan Has No Moon was starred Vulcan Has No Moon was unstarred
    Image of drclaytonforrester drclaytonforrester
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    This depresses me, as I keep wanting to go after the prettiest girl in town. And so do a lot of guys. What do we do, all band together and say, 'slow down, let's ease up here'? It kind of contradicts the natural tendency to be competitive. Very confusing and perplexing.

    Although friends of mine with 'less-than-perfect-looking' mates (whatever that means) have stellar, beautiful children - so I guess there is a lot to be said here for not having to go after the most attractive female in town. Still, it does conflict with males' brains' tendency to go after the pretty girl. Maybe finding a girl that you think is pretty yet not getting a seeming swarm of attention is the way to go. You know, pairings - everybody goes off with their pairings, in a couple -
     Reply
    EBone promoted this comment drclaytonforrester was starred drclaytonforrester was unstarred
    Image of EBone EBone
    12/08/09

    @drclaytonforrester: This article is about fruit flies. Nothing says it applies to human beings.
     Reply
    EBone was starred EBone was unstarred
    Image of MissBurlesque MissBurlesque
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    uhh that "girl" is Lady Gaga.. just so you all know
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment Dash_Stryker approved this comment MissBurlesque was starred MissBurlesque was unstarred
    Image of Annalee Newitz Annalee Newitz
    12/08/09

    @MissBurlesque: yeah she's a lady so don't call her girl!

    I am completely obsessed with Lady Gaga right now.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz was starred Annalee Newitz was unstarred
    Image of simonbarsinister simonbarsinister
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    "I was doing really well with this beauty. She was STACKED... looked really fecund if you know what I mean. But my mates kept cock-blocking me. They were all over her. In the end I went home with this scrawny little she-fly while my mates wasted their money on sugar-water for the babe."
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment simonbarsinister was starred simonbarsinister was unstarred
    Image of ManchuCandidate ManchuCandidate
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    I'm too sexy for my genes too sexy for my genes
    Evolution's going to kill me

    I'm a hot female you know what I mean
    And I shake my big abs on the flyscape
    Yeah on the flyscape on the flyscape yeah
    I shake my big abs on the flyscape
     Reply
    ManchuCandidate was starred ManchuCandidate was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    12/08/09

    @ManchuCandidate: A+
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of Im_your_Huckleberry Im_your_Huckleberry
    12/08/09

    @ManchuCandidate: You're on a roll today +1
     Reply
    Im_your_Huckleberry was starred Im_your_Huckleberry was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    12/08/09

    In reply to The Evolutionary Cost of Being Extremely Sexy
    the cover picture completely misses the point of the article. models and actresses like the one above are not fit. that girl is way too thin to be menstruating. we don't even exist on the same playing field as real animals, we select for extraordinary not fitness. when serfs worked long hours in the fields buff and tan were not in vogue, pale and fat were. now that everyone's pale and fat we're into thin and tan or tan and buff. for humanity it's always about wanting something different, fitness isn't even on the radar anymore.
     Reply
    tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of jer2110 jer2110
    12/08/09

    @tetracycloide: looks fit to me
     Reply
    tetracycloide promoted this comment jer2110 was starred jer2110 was unstarred
    Image of Blue_Thark Blue_Thark
    12/08/09

    @tetracycloide: Not to mention many human females are perfectly capable of "entertaining" large numbers of mates and still manage to feed themselves and go to the gym on a regular basis.

    Not that I would ever associate with such women. No, siree.
     Reply
    tetracycloide promoted this comment Blue_Thark was starred Blue_Thark was unstarred
    Image of drclaytonforrester drclaytonforrester
    12/08/09

    @tetracycloide: that girl is way too thin to be menstruating.

    Very true, the waist-hip ratio is very important. Always gets me noticing. A good waist-hip ratio is like pheromones ..

    for humanity it's always about wanting something different, fitness isn't even on the radar anymore.

    So true, could attraction to 'different' be nature's way of mixing up the gene pool? Actually what am I saying, it probably is.

    But fitness should be on the radar, and probably is.
     Reply
    tetracycloide promoted this comment drclaytonforrester was starred drclaytonforrester was unstarred
    Image of 1Grand_Marquis 1Grand_Marquis
    12/08/09

    @tetracycloide: Well that's only true for a very literal interpretation of "fitness" as specifically "objective physical health" (and in that case, the serfs still wouldn't be desirable simply because of all the horrible diseases they were carrying around). But pale and fat were also indications of wealth, which was the criteria for fitness at the time. Thin and tan in the 90s indicated a potential for popularity and the potential to rise in social standing via 'trophy wife', which were criteria for fitness then.

    We may have abandoned our instinctual criteria for fitness long ago, but that doesn't mean we're suddenly exempt.
     Reply
    tetracycloide promoted this comment 1Grand_Marquis was starred 1Grand_Marquis was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    12/08/09

    @1Grand_Marquis: that's my point, really, that humanity has long since begun selecting for something other than physical health.
     Reply
    tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of Indigen Indigen
    12/08/09

    @tetracycloide: Worse than that; in the world we've built for ourselves, there ARE no beneficial traits. Historically, you'd have to acknowledge large, strong, intelligent, healthy or any combination thereof men and women are the way to go, but today those traits are either negligible or a liability. So far are we from any natural struggle, evolution has ceased to have any meaning, purpose or direction. This is our burden as the thinking species. We can champion the morality of selection and choice right into our confused, decrepit racial grave, while every other species is unencumbered by thought and driven by biological impulse into adaptation - if we don't wipe them out.

    This incidentally is why I have no problem with any future widespread genetic manipulation. Even if it is privileged to f.ex wealthy, white Westerners, at least it's throwing some progress out there to disseminate.
     Reply
    tetracycloide promoted this comment Indigen was starred Indigen was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    12/08/09

    @Indigen: the problem with widespread genetic manipulation is that, when human being choose the traits to select for directly, it really isn't any better, objectively, from the mess we have already. how would one choose which traits to select for? how would one balance this selection with a need to preserve genetic diversity?
     Reply
    tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of ErrantConstruct ErrantConstruct
    12/08/09

    @tetracycloide: Simple, we wouldn't select for genetic diversity. As genetic manipulation became a viable option, everyone would want to look like the cultural ideal. Although, as it spread throughout society, we would undoubtedly find some other set of traits to see as the ideal. We probably wouldn't value looks as much since they could be changed easily.
     Reply
    SJ_Edwards promoted this comment ErrantConstruct was starred ErrantConstruct was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    12/08/09

    @ErrantConstruct: but what traits do we choose? how do we know we won't need the traits we're breeding out 100 years after they're gone? over specialize and you breed in weakness.
     Reply
    Edited by tetracycloide at 12/08/09 4:18 PM tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of ErrantConstruct ErrantConstruct
    12/09/09

    @tetracycloide: Oh that's a definite problem, but I don't think we'll be forward thinking enough to avoid the temptation of having big breasts/penis, slender body/huge muscles, and blond hair. Or insert whatever physical traits people are willing to mutilate themselves for. Once it becomes easy to have cosmetic changes done to your body, it will spread like wild fire.
     Reply
    ErrantConstruct was starred ErrantConstruct was unstarred
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