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Tue Dec 22
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No love for BBC's adaptation of Gormenghast? I thought it was excellent. The casting alone was superb: Stephen Fry, Christopher Lee, Zoƫ Wannamaker. And Jonathan Rhys Meyers was amazing as Steerpike.
@Neiten: But they didn't do the third one! I realize that some don't like Titus ALone or even consider it part of the same story, but I felt like they left it hanging.
I just hate it when people consider Coppola's overwrought & badly (BADLY!!!) acted vers of Dracula a good movie! I think everyone's been hypnotized by the visuals & forgets just how awful Reeves, Ryder &, yes, even the great Hopkins really were! Even Oldman comes off as too hokey. I'll admit there are some frightening scenes & the opening 5 mins are great, but when Winona & Keanu arrive, the story just falls apart.
@myturn21: I'll agree that the acting is rather atrocious, but what gets me most about this entrant is that it takes FAR too many liberties for a film whose title claims it to be entirely faithful. Yea, the visuals may capture a sense of foreboding dread, but it really beats down on the original text.
It should really be titled, "Francis Ford Coppola presents: Fancis Ford Coppola's interpretation of Brahm Stokers 'Dracula' (inspired by the novel)"
@Althestane: Yeah, what was with that? In the 90s, you had all these less-than-faithful adaptations with the authors name in the title.
Bram Stoker's Dracula, Edgar Allan Poe's: Buried Alive, but the worst--worst!--was Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. Amniotic fluid? Really? Thanks, Kenneth Branagh!
@Yellowphant: I am still waiting to see a true adaptation of Shelley's Frankenstein. Part of the problem is that the creation of the monster is actually very undramatic. Frankenstein just sort of makes him.
I only saw "Fellowship" and I have to say that I didn't really care for it. I thought that it failed to capture an essential "Tolkien-ness" which pretty much ruined the movie for me. It didn't help that most of Tolkien's dialog was rewritten completely.
Since everyone else I knew loved it, I went back to see it again, just in case I was in the grip of temporary insanity or was having a stroke the first time I saw it. Unfortunately, I still didn't care for it.
At the risk of being devoured alive, I must say that I fucking hated the LOTR movies. I'm a huge fan of the books and have been for as long as I can remember. I was fairly disappointed by the first movie, but I let it slide, because I never really liked Tom Bombadil all that much and because allowances had to be made or the movie would have lasted for 5 hours. And then came The Two Towers. Holy flying crap on a nazgulhorse. But even that did not prepare me for the heartbreaking bullshit that The Return of the King was. I will never ever forgive what they did to the character of Faramir and to the Ents. The portrayal of Ents was probably the most cruel thing in the blasted trilogy.
In my opinion, Jackson's adaptation completely missed the point. The mood of the films was completely wrong, and WHY for fuck sake did they have to INVENT the incident with Aragorn falling off a cliff? It takes up half an hour of the film, valuable time which could have been used to portray Faramir as he was.
And what I hate most about the whole business is that now, when I talk about The Lord of the Rings with people, they mostly can't tell the book and the films apart. That drives me nuts.
I have to agree on Dracula tho. I found the book mind numbingly boring an repetitive. That's actually probably the only book in the world that's worse than any adaptation of it, ever. But Coppola's version is really stunning.
And I'm on the fence about A Clockwork Orange. I think that it's a good movie, but it has a bit too much of the old ultraviolence and a bit too little of the old social control. Also they're supposed to look like clowns and be 15 years old.
And yeah, you forgot Interview with a vampire, that really was a great movie and a very good adaptation.
Fight club was also a very good adaptation, but I guess it doesn't fall into the scifi/fantasy realm. Although, trying to reboot civilization with the help of your imaginary friend is kinda fantastic. And I preferred the ending of the film to the ending of the book, for the first and only time ever.
@AdoraBelle: i can relate to your troubles with the two towers film as they mirror my own but i found it odd you called out the return of the king as being the most egregious of the three and yet only brought up specific issues that appeared in the two towers.
for my own part i found the return of the king mostly palatable, even with the adjustments. a notable exception was the scene where the witch king makes gandalf his bitch. gandalf is of the same race as sauron i.e. the nazgul's master while they are just men with some magical talents and a shinny ring. granted the witch king is the greatest of them but still no match for a gandalf. hell, the only reason he doesn't slay them all outright was because it was his job to let the people of middle earth overcome sauron on their own power. i mean... wait, where was i? o right, yes, other than that the last film was alright. the first is still my favorite.
@tetracycloide: @AdoraBelle: Well... it's not my place to filet you both for your blasphemous opinions... because admittedly, I haven't read the books. That being said I was somewhat familiar with the stories and I was very pleased with the results.
...of course, I thought both Sin City and The Watchmen should have been included on the list so what does that tell you?
@Dethzilla: well, a movie can both be a poor adaption of the book and a good film in its own right. i dissagree with the assesment of some of the LOTR films as doing the books justice, the two towers most of all, but it doesn't make them less entertaining or epic as films. for my taste there was far to much apologetic 'it's not really a direct adaptation of the book' in the explination of the films that made the list titled 'films that did the books justice.'
@AdoraBelle: Have you seen the director's cut? They delve deeper into Faramir and the Ents. It's really is loads and loads better than the theatrical version.
@tetracycloide: I actually found "The Return of the King" a wonderful adaptation. When i read the trilogy as a kid, the books got progressively more challenging to wrap my head around, to the point where I actually gave up on the last one for 6 months. I appreciated that the stories got increasingly more complicated and intense from one book to the next, but it bogged me down something awful.
As far as the movie adaptations of the trilogy, I saw a kind of opposite trend. Minus a few key scenes, the movies progressively become better adaptations of the books. The last one FINALLY got me jazzed up about the stories in the final book. Being able to see a fantastical war on the grand scale that it was intended clicked better in visual format than the text ever did.
I do agree with AdoraBelle that it pains me to hear about and talk with people that have only seen the movies and haven't bothered to read the books!
@tetracycloide: hear-hear to your first sentence. One of the first things my Film Studies prof said to us in our first class was that the phrase "the book was better" is meaningless. The book and the film are completely different artforms, completely different texts.
One can argue that one of the texts is more successful within it's form and intentions than the other, but you're really comparing apples and oranges, so any direct comparison is nonsense.
And re: The Two Towers, thankfully liberties were taken, else it would have been two different tales in series (Merry and Pippin and the Ents, being one book of the Two Towers; and the further adventures of the remains of the Fellowship in the other), rather than blending the stories for heightened drama and effect, no?
@AdoraBelle: My biggest problem with the movies is how Jackson eviscerated the characers' motivations.
Aragorn is not the noble descendant of a long lost line trying to reclaim his rightful throne - he "turned from that path long ago," and has to be browbeaten into doing everything by Elrond. He can't even reforge his own sword!
Theoden is not the newly rewakened tiger of Rohan setting out with his men to set right the world - he is a scared old man who has to be prodded into doing anything by Gandalf and Aragorn (who suddenly grows a conscience!).
Frodo is not the badass little hobbit with his uncle's spirit of adventure who leaps forth to smite Nazgul and trolls in the foot with Sting - he cowers behind a rock shrieking like a little girl for Aragorn to save him.
Merry and Pippin just happen to bump into Frodo and Sam and fall in with their quest, instead of bravely resolving not to let their friend go face this danger alone.
And, as someone else pointed out, yes, Gandalf gets pwned by the Witch King. W. T. F?
It's like there's a prejudice against any protagonist showing some initiative in regards to the bigger picture.
@Dethzilla: Watchmen was like taking a xerox copy of the comic and making a flipbook of it. (as opposed to the motion comic, which was taking the comic and makign a Terry Gilliam-style animation of it). It had the words and images but none of what made the comic great in the first place.
@tetracycloide: "i found it odd you called out the return of the king as being the most egregious of the three and yet only brought up specific issues that appeared in the two towers."
Oh, that was just me being lazy. Also it's been a while since I saw them last time. But here's one thing: Legolas killing the oliphant. What the fuck? That is just so wrong on so many levels. And one of my favorite scenes from the book, where Eowyn kills the witch king, indeed one of the most important scenes from the book, is like a five second clip while the oliphant thing takes ten minutes.
@Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.: Yep, seen all of them in one sitting actually. But they still missed the point entirely. Especially the Ents which are shown as blundering giants that react with blind rage.
@AdoraBelle: in spite of its length the most troublesome aspect of that scene, for me, is that they never explain where merry's dagger comes from or why it would have any effect on the witch king.
As great a film as it is, removing the final chapter and resolution drastically alters the tone and meaning of the original text - the underlyng subtext of the book and movie are utterly different.
One has Alex growing up and maturing into an adult, a sign of hope in future generations, the other has him revert to his old ways and spells the end to modern society.
@Tyrunn: Wikipedia tells me that Burgess liked the movie and originally got along well with Kubrick, but they had a falling out when Kubrick left Burgess out to dry when it came to defending the film from critics who didn't get the moral message and just whined about the ultraviolence. Burgess felt like he was being used and was understandably pissed.
Wikipedia also tells me that the screenplay was based on the American edition of the novel which didn't contain the final chapter. Apparently Kubrick didn't even know it existed until it was too late to add it in.
@RandomFrequentFlierDent: I seem to remember my copy of the book, which I bought specifically because it had the final chapter in it, having a forward in it from Anthony Burgess stating that Kubrick KNEW there was a chapter left out but decided to use the American version anyway as it would appeal to Hollywood's "every story must have a nice ending" mentality. Couldn't have Alex running off and becoming a fiend again after his "reform", now could we. Without that final chapter the book has a far less powerful free will message.
I'll see if I can dig up my copy of the book and send some quotes from it out after I get home...
@saulecker: I may be misreading your comment, but I think you have the book and movie endings confused. In the "missing" chapter (left out of U.S. edition and not included in the movie) Alex decides to give up his life of ultraviolence, with thoughts of settling down and starting a family.
The movie ends with him returning to his life of crime (after being de-programed), as does the novel if the extra chapter isn't included.
So really, Hollywood decided to go with the not so happy ending (Alex continuing to rape, pillage and plunder), rather than Burgess' more thoughtful, less racy ending (which implies Alex one day becoming a tax paying, law-abiding family man).
@Tyrunn: I read somewhere that when Burgess made a stage adaptation of Clockwork, he made the bum they beat up look a lot like Kubrick. So I think there's more to the story. I definitely felt that Kubrick missed the point.
*Cough* Richard Matheson's Somewhere in Time (originally titled "Bid Time Return"). There's some changes but it's still just as beautiful of a story on screen as on film.
Also, if fantasy is on the table- The Wizard of Oz and Return to Oz are, needless to say, awesome adaptations.
Going out on a limb here, but I HATE The Lord of the Rings books. I found them painfully slow and incredibly boring and I quit a quarter-way through Two Towers when I realized I only read LOTR to help me get to sleep. However, I loved the movies. Don't get me wrong, I love to read, but fantasy and I just don't get along. (Let's say I started with Robert Jordan and ended with Robert Jordan; you know what I'm talking about if you got into his craptastic followups to Lord of Chaos.)
LOTR was a casualty of my dislike for the genre, but the movies were so well-made on so many different levels that I gave it a pass and rank them among my favorite movies.
@RexMaximus: I still wonder if Jordan had a stroke after Lord of Chaos or something. The books move along at a fairly decent clip, and then wham! Book seven comes and it slows to a freakin' crawl. The guy literally had to die before we got another decent novel in that series.
@Adah:, @Lloyd: @sakeido: @Fanboy185: I think I remembered something happening to RJ healthwise around the writing of A Crown of Swords, but I could be wrong. That would make sense, or he simply just lost the plot.
I read the Sword of Truth to about Temple of the Winds, but never continued. I liked SoT as a teen, but I even then I found its violence, sex, and violent sex a little disturbing, alongside the Ayn Rand-lite philosophy. I'll give it another go eventually, and dabble with the other recommendations.
As for Peter Jackson's changes/deletions, I would have really liked the Tom Bombadil chapter in Fellowship of the Ring, but everything else just fit like a glove. When I read that part, I kept thinking of that crazy Trumpy flying toys around the kid's bedroom scene from the MST3k episode on "Pod People." It was that weird. If any of you MST fans got that, kudos to you.
I still think Bram Stoker's Dracula is a great adaptation. It's the only movie ever made of the book that includes the American character - and the only one that has the multi-transfusion scene from the novel where Mina gets blood from like five guys at once, and which is so demented and wonderful. So there!
They're fantasy, but Howls' Moving Castle and The Neverending Story are both movies that while they changed a lot of the plots, they stayed true to the real feel and scope of the books, and I think do them great justice.
I haven't read Coraline, but I've heard the same of it.
I know a lot of people disagree, but I feel like Minority Report did a good job with what it had to work with (it's not my favorite of PKD's short stories).
@Mary Ratliff: I felt like the Minority Report film really captured the atmosphere of the original but that is where it ended. However, SS did such a great job of expanding on many of PKD's ideas I still liked it.
I am going to go out on a limb here; I know this may incur some wrath.
But I'm going to put in a good word for Richard Linklater's adaptation of "A Scanner Darkly".
It was faithful to Philip K. Dick's stark ambivalence about mind-alteration, and it also did a good job of visualizing the "scramble suit" (one of PKD's most original inventions).
I think "A Scanner Darkly" would have been more warmly received had it featured a cast of unknowns. The mega-star cast detracted from the film's ambitious trippiness.
It took the same plot, characters, and events and raped them with a giant plaster cock.
The beauty of the book was portraying the horrible scenes in a REALISTIC way, not some bizzare Sci-Fi distopian environment where none of the characters have any redeeming qualities...
@fatetwister64: The Squid isn't nearly as infuriating to me as completely missing the point that mutually assured destruction is an inevitability and the only way to stop people from killing each other is to get us to try and all kill the same thing.
For being "the smartest man on the cinder", the movie Ozy is pretty damn stupid. "I know! We'll scare everyone into playing nice by threatening the destruction of the world by Dr. Manhattan, while conveniently ignoring that that strategy didn't work at all when the US used it against the Soviets!"
@dry-roasted-peanuts: I think that what Watchmen got most wrong was that it didn't realize that Moore and Gibbon's vision was entirely tied to it being read as a comic, specifically an episodic comic series rather than a "graphic novel." What made Watchmen so great was that they did everything with a comic that they possibly could.
@Wookie1972: Oh, absolutly. Especially in trying for such a literal adaptation really made for some weird pacing issues of the movie.
That stuff just didn't bother me as much as the ending being totally changed (and again, not specifically the Squid, but the "stop fighting out of being scared" instead of "scared into all fighting on the same side").
Blade Runner is without a doubt a fantastic movie, but I felt like it was pretty loosely based on Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. There's so much in the book that's not a part of the movie that it almost makes Blade Runner seem empty and bland.
@bookling: it's more of a light adaptation... but it doesn't excuse the thought provocation of the movie in the slightest... so I still think Blade Runner is a good choice here...
Charlie Jane Anders promoted this comment
Obama takes time to read kotaku's comments... was starred
Obama takes time to read kotaku's comments... was unstarred
@bookling: I completely agree - Bladerunner and Electric Sheep have very little in common. In fact the Producers of the movie wanted a tie-in book to be released at the same time of the movie that was based on the screenplay and not the book. (It was very common back then. I read several James Bond books based on the movies and not the original Fleming novels.) Philip K. Dick absolutely refused to allow it even when they said he could write it himself and they would pay him for it. The producers had no choice but to release the book as Dick had originally written it. If Philip K. Dick hadn't stuck to his guns then I would have never been introduced to his genius.
@bookling: @Obama takes time to read kotaku's comments...: Yeah, the book is very different, and while the movie is important for its design and creation of a lot of the cyberpunk look, it's definitely inferior.
Definitely LoTR. Left out a lot, even in the 11+ hours of the extended versions. What choice did he have? Still, it really captured all the major themes, mood and everything important.
Take my advice though, don't watch it all in one day. Pick a three day weekend (new years is traditional in the Lizardo household since the sun goes down early and you don't have to deal with glare on the TV) and watch one a day.
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[en.wikipedia.org]
[www.pbs.org]
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It should really be titled, "Francis Ford Coppola presents: Fancis Ford Coppola's interpretation of Brahm Stokers 'Dracula' (inspired by the novel)"
12/01/09
Bram Stoker's Dracula, Edgar Allan Poe's: Buried Alive, but the worst--worst!--was Mary Shelly's Frankenstein. Amniotic fluid? Really? Thanks, Kenneth Branagh!
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12/01/09
80s-style montage!
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12/01/09
Since everyone else I knew loved it, I went back to see it again, just in case I was in the grip of temporary insanity or was having a stroke the first time I saw it. Unfortunately, I still didn't care for it.
Big disappointment for me.
12/01/09
12/01/09
In my opinion, Jackson's adaptation completely missed the point. The mood of the films was completely wrong, and WHY for fuck sake did they have to INVENT the incident with Aragorn falling off a cliff? It takes up half an hour of the film, valuable time which could have been used to portray Faramir as he was.
And what I hate most about the whole business is that now, when I talk about The Lord of the Rings with people, they mostly can't tell the book and the films apart. That drives me nuts.
I have to agree on Dracula tho. I found the book mind numbingly boring an repetitive. That's actually probably the only book in the world that's worse than any adaptation of it, ever. But Coppola's version is really stunning.
And I'm on the fence about A Clockwork Orange. I think that it's a good movie, but it has a bit too much of the old ultraviolence and a bit too little of the old social control. Also they're supposed to look like clowns and be 15 years old.
And yeah, you forgot Interview with a vampire, that really was a great movie and a very good adaptation.
Fight club was also a very good adaptation, but I guess it doesn't fall into the scifi/fantasy realm. Although, trying to reboot civilization with the help of your imaginary friend is kinda fantastic. And I preferred the ending of the film to the ending of the book, for the first and only time ever.
12/01/09
for my own part i found the return of the king mostly palatable, even with the adjustments. a notable exception was the scene where the witch king makes gandalf his bitch. gandalf is of the same race as sauron i.e. the nazgul's master while they are just men with some magical talents and a shinny ring. granted the witch king is the greatest of them but still no match for a gandalf. hell, the only reason he doesn't slay them all outright was because it was his job to let the people of middle earth overcome sauron on their own power. i mean... wait, where was i? o right, yes, other than that the last film was alright. the first is still my favorite.
12/01/09
...of course, I thought both Sin City and The Watchmen should have been included on the list so what does that tell you?
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12/01/09
12/01/09
As far as the movie adaptations of the trilogy, I saw a kind of opposite trend. Minus a few key scenes, the movies progressively become better adaptations of the books. The last one FINALLY got me jazzed up about the stories in the final book. Being able to see a fantastical war on the grand scale that it was intended clicked better in visual format than the text ever did.
I do agree with AdoraBelle that it pains me to hear about and talk with people that have only seen the movies and haven't bothered to read the books!
12/01/09
One can argue that one of the texts is more successful within it's form and intentions than the other, but you're really comparing apples and oranges, so any direct comparison is nonsense.
And re: The Two Towers, thankfully liberties were taken, else it would have been two different tales in series (Merry and Pippin and the Ents, being one book of the Two Towers; and the further adventures of the remains of the Fellowship in the other), rather than blending the stories for heightened drama and effect, no?
12/01/09
Aragorn is not the noble descendant of a long lost line trying to reclaim his rightful throne - he "turned from that path long ago," and has to be browbeaten into doing everything by Elrond. He can't even reforge his own sword!
Theoden is not the newly rewakened tiger of Rohan setting out with his men to set right the world - he is a scared old man who has to be prodded into doing anything by Gandalf and Aragorn (who suddenly grows a conscience!).
Frodo is not the badass little hobbit with his uncle's spirit of adventure who leaps forth to smite Nazgul and trolls in the foot with Sting - he cowers behind a rock shrieking like a little girl for Aragorn to save him.
Merry and Pippin just happen to bump into Frodo and Sam and fall in with their quest, instead of bravely resolving not to let their friend go face this danger alone.
And, as someone else pointed out, yes, Gandalf gets pwned by the Witch King. W. T. F?
It's like there's a prejudice against any protagonist showing some initiative in regards to the bigger picture.
12/01/09
12/01/09
12/02/09
Oh, that was just me being lazy. Also it's been a while since I saw them last time. But here's one thing: Legolas killing the oliphant. What the fuck? That is just so wrong on so many levels. And one of my favorite scenes from the book, where Eowyn kills the witch king, indeed one of the most important scenes from the book, is like a five second clip while the oliphant thing takes ten minutes.
12/02/09
12/02/09
12/02/09
12/01/09
As great a film as it is, removing the final chapter and resolution drastically alters the tone and meaning of the original text - the underlyng subtext of the book and movie are utterly different.
One has Alex growing up and maturing into an adult, a sign of hope in future generations, the other has him revert to his old ways and spells the end to modern society.
12/01/09
Wikipedia also tells me that the screenplay was based on the American edition of the novel which didn't contain the final chapter. Apparently Kubrick didn't even know it existed until it was too late to add it in.
12/01/09
I'll see if I can dig up my copy of the book and send some quotes from it out after I get home...
12/01/09
The movie ends with him returning to his life of crime (after being de-programed), as does the novel if the extra chapter isn't included.
So really, Hollywood decided to go with the not so happy ending (Alex continuing to rape, pillage and plunder), rather than Burgess' more thoughtful, less racy ending (which implies Alex one day becoming a tax paying, law-abiding family man).
12/01/09
12/02/09
12/02/09
12/01/09
Also, if fantasy is on the table- The Wizard of Oz and Return to Oz are, needless to say, awesome adaptations.
11/30/09
LOTR was a casualty of my dislike for the genre, but the movies were so well-made on so many different levels that I gave it a pass and rank them among my favorite movies.
12/01/09
12/01/09
I read the Sword of Truth to about Temple of the Winds, but never continued. I liked SoT as a teen, but I even then I found its violence, sex, and violent sex a little disturbing, alongside the Ayn Rand-lite philosophy. I'll give it another go eventually, and dabble with the other recommendations.
As for Peter Jackson's changes/deletions, I would have really liked the Tom Bombadil chapter in Fellowship of the Ring, but everything else just fit like a glove. When I read that part, I kept thinking of that crazy Trumpy flying toys around the kid's bedroom scene from the MST3k episode on "Pod People." It was that weird. If any of you MST fans got that, kudos to you.
11/30/09
11/30/09
I haven't read Coraline, but I've heard the same of it.
I know a lot of people disagree, but I feel like Minority Report did a good job with what it had to work with (it's not my favorite of PKD's short stories).
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11/30/09
But I'm going to put in a good word for Richard Linklater's adaptation of "A Scanner Darkly".
It was faithful to Philip K. Dick's stark ambivalence about mind-alteration, and it also did a good job of visualizing the "scramble suit" (one of PKD's most original inventions).
I think "A Scanner Darkly" would have been more warmly received had it featured a cast of unknowns. The mega-star cast detracted from the film's ambitious trippiness.
(here's what I thought of the book a while back....)
11/30/09
No no no no no no no no no. No. NO.
It took the same plot, characters, and events and raped them with a giant plaster cock.
The beauty of the book was portraying the horrible scenes in a REALISTIC way, not some bizzare Sci-Fi distopian environment where none of the characters have any redeeming qualities...
Please, please someone read the book.
11/30/09
11/30/09
11/30/09
I don't think the movie actually did, but I think you could. The squid was a bit of a weak plot point in an otherwise strong graphic novel.
12/01/09
For being "the smartest man on the cinder", the movie Ozy is pretty damn stupid. "I know! We'll scare everyone into playing nice by threatening the destruction of the world by Dr. Manhattan, while conveniently ignoring that that strategy didn't work at all when the US used it against the Soviets!"
12/01/09
Plus, Malin Ackerman... sigh...
12/01/09
That stuff just didn't bother me as much as the ending being totally changed (and again, not specifically the Squid, but the "stop fighting out of being scared" instead of "scared into all fighting on the same side").
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11/30/09
Take my advice though, don't watch it all in one day. Pick a three day weekend (new years is traditional in the Lizardo household since the sun goes down early and you don't have to deal with glare on the TV) and watch one a day.