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San Francisco, 1:29 AM
Thu Nov 26
21 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/19/09
Well, that's a bit much, isn't it?
These people depended entirely upon the Machine for their existence. The internet is mostly an entertainment medium, and a convenience.
My life would go on pretty much normally w/o the internet, I'd just use the TV, telephone, and mail more often.
-Kle.
11/19/09
It'd tear the crap out of all financial markets, for one thing. Most trading nowadays is super-computerized; something like 97 percent of NYSE trading is on electronic networks (1). The implosion of all that would make the recent financial problems look tiny. And that's just one facet of the problem.
Think of all the things that would really go of the rails if the internet just stopped. All electronic commerce, of course (goodbye Amazon), but all kinds of other things, too. The DMV or your insurance company wouldn't be able to access any of your records; the police wouldn't be able to use any criminal databases. Any company that uses electronic inventory tracking or management (ie, every large company, nowadays) would have operations grind to a halt, at least for a while. Half the time HR, accounting, etc is all online now too. And, anecdotally, every federal office I've ever seen runs on email. Internet failure would be a clusterf*ck of epic proportions.
And that's even assuming all the peripheral systems like phone systems and wire transfers and credit card transactions and ATMs were unaffected (and how many people do you know that don't carry cash anymore?)
Now, I'm not saying it would be the end of civilization as we know it. We'd deal. But a sudden, prolonged internet shutdown would be a massive disaster, and unless you live totally and entirely off the grid, it would probably disrupt your life in all kinds of ways.
1) [arstechnica.com]
11/20/09
Most of the things you describe wouldn't affect me directly, and many of them I would see as positive.
For example, everyone loves Amazon, and everyone hates WalMart. However, they are exactly the same thing. The death of Amazon would please me greatly. The world financial system shutting down? That's what should have happened last year - at least then the people who caused it would be suffering along with the rest of us, instead of raking in bonuses.
The world ran just fine before the internet, it's loss would be a speedbump.
-Kle.
11/20/09
The world ran just fine before the automobile, too, yet if they all stopped working suddenly, it be a colossal disaster affecting pretty much everyone- even those without cars. To borrow your metaphor, hitting a speedbump is fine if you see it coming and brake accordingly. But a sudden internet failure would be hitting a speedbump at 90 mph with your foot on the gas.
My main point, above, was that a lot of the infrastructure underpinning every aspect of modern society has moved online, even the core things like managing supply lines for food and basic services. And yeah, we could probably move it all back off again if we planned it out and had warning. But if everything ground to a halt unexpectedly, I maintain it would just shut down huge swathes of every industrialized society. Which would a) cause a lot of damage to society as we know it, and b) worsen a lot of people's lives individually.
[Aside: I picked Amazon simply because it's a big, recognizable name. The same, however, applies to the mom-and-pop couple selling hand-knitted baby clothes online, or the small engineering firm that's a collaboration between ten people on three continents. And ecommerce is ALL peripheral damage; the real harm would come from the fact that every other company uses the internet a lot these days too.]
Now, I don't know your circumstances; it's possible that you live on a farm and grow your own food and really wouldn't see any change in your life except using mail and TV any more, and economic collapse is something that happens to other people. If so, good for you. Most people in the industrialized world aren't so lucky.
But your last post above seems to suggest "it's not a disaster if everyone's life is ruined equally". I don't buy that. Or the idea that it's not a disaster because some good comes of it. ("Hey, a plague killed everyone over age 40, but guess what? No more Alzheimers!") In seriousness, it's possible a world without the internet might be a better place. That doesn't mean that suddenly stopping it right now wouldn't cause a colossal clusterf*ck.
11/21/09
I don't think the world would be a better place w/o the internet.
I do think that people use the internet for all sorts of amazingly imprudent purposes - and I think that if people suffer for making decisions a child could have told them were stupid, just because they are convenient, it's funny.
The world financial system (for example) shouldn't rely upon the internet, because the internet is inherently unreliable and unsecure. People shouldn't really manage their money electronically, because of the above reason, and the simple fact that banks are out to screw them.
Here, this xkcd should explain my position pretty clearly:
[xkcd.com]
Most things that are important to the function of society, that rely on the internet, should not.
-Kle.
11/21/09
It is funny when someone's obviously boneheaded decisions catch up with them. It's much less funny when you get hit by collateral damage from their bad choices.
11/22/09
"It is funny when someone's obviously boneheaded decisions catch up with them. It's much less funny when you get hit by collateral damage from their bad choices."
Yeah, but I'm willing to take the hit, if it wakes people up. Same with the current economic troubles; I don't think there should have been a bailout.
People rarely learn w/o pain.
-Kle.
11/18/09
11/18/09
11/18/09
'i am make science! i tame machine for use for man!'
'you go to far! you am play gods!'
'no, am progress! am automation! machine work for man!'
*machine fails and no one can fix it
'me am play gods!'
11/18/09
i mean it's easy to look around and see complacancey everywhere if that's what you're looking for but it's just as easy to look throughout history and notice that there have always been individuals who would never have been satisfied with such a life. they would never have created a machine capable of these things to use it themselves because they would have been to busy making something newer and cooler. edison didn't invent the light bulb and then bask in the glow of his invention for the rest of his life. no, he went on to experiment with newer and more interesting things in addition to leveraging his invention to his own social, political, and financial advantage. that's what people do, not create things and then think 'well i'm done i'll just do nothing from here on out because i can.'
11/17/09
The only prisoner remake I was ever excited about was the one that was supposed to star Clive Owen several years ago. I think even McGoohan was cool with the idea, which surprised me.
Sadly, I think you can sum all six of those up under the single massive crime of "Not knowing exactly which direction to go, so attempting to find a middle ground on everything."
Watching these last 4 hours has been like watching a tug of war between one show that wants to remain faithful to the spirit of Patrick McGoohan, and one that wants to be Lost. The end result is a 'good idea one minute, terrible idea the next' trainwreck. #theprisoner
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/16/09
It's damn near impossible, and if you actually succeed, you may just end up accidentally summoning an Elder God from beyond the Void. #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
Maybe I've just successfully detached this show from the original in all but the most basic premises. #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
I suppose we still don't know for sure even now who runs The Village. But I felt like the show was calling out Evil Corp. a little too quickly.
It was also clear that in the original, the masters of The Village had contact with the outside world. I can sorta appreciate the existential angst of being convinced that The Village is all there is. But you'd have to be pretty damn stupid not to wonder where the construction material to fix the diner came from.
I admire the new version for trying to find its own way. But I think the writers should have thought about it a little more. #theprisoner
11/16/09
We also had no real idea what the truth behind Number 6 was. He was adamant about his principles and individuality, sure. And we assume he didn't defect or intend to sell state secrets to the USSR because he's Our Hero. But we don't really know either way. Nor should we. #theprisoner
11/16/09
Saw the first bit, but the rest?
I won't be seeing you. #theprisoner
11/16/09
Mel Gibson is totally out of it. #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
It just seems that in the reboot they just turned the volumedown from 11 to more like 5.
As far as reasons 6 and 5, TOS hard only 1 real emotion #6 had and that was hate not ennui . #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
Also, I think a lot of your criticisms about how the new show strays away from the point of the original wouldn't be so bad if the new show actually found a way to re-frame the conflict, but it seems they couldn't think of anything compelling to hang the drama on so they just went for a straight up modernization, by which I mean, threw in a bunch of more current cliches and got rid of the most of the quirks of the original.
11/16/09
11/16/09
He returns to his quaint little Missouri town to settle down and reclaim his David Webb identity, but his post-ops trauma still haunts him and he snaps during the town's annual Apple Blossom Ball and ends up krav magaing the entire town to death mistaking his neighbors for sleeper cells.