I love how so many people are worried about corporate feudalism but no one accepts that the consumer has a fair amount of responsibility in this regard as well. If you think a corporation is being evil then stop buying their products or services!! Or at least greatly reduce your consumption.
But no. People want to bitch about how evil the big corporations are but they don't want to deal with the sacrifice of going without the convenience of the goods and services that the big evil corporations provide.
It's like people who complain about how expensive cable TV is but they just keep buying it.
@strideo: Corporations have the money, therefore the power, to take direct action. Consumers can vote with their wallets, but it's not like they can keep track of what every corporation they buy from is doing when their back is turned.
The only non-corporate organization powerful enough to keep track of corporations' actions are national governments.
@Anekanta: Not to mention, the corporations are so good at reducing alternative sources for consumers, making it impossible to survive. There's a lower limit to the amount of stuff you can buy.
Two mysterious omissions that I'm sure others have caught: the camp classic "Red Dawn" for the Soviet invasion trope, and Phillip Roth's fantastic "Plot Against America", which plausibly envisions fascist America under the likes of Charles Lindbergh. A must-read.
@mondojohnson: I didn't include Red Dawn, or Invasion USA for that matter, because they are commie invasion flicks not flicks about the US being occupied long-term by communists or simply going about a regime change to communism on its own.
As for leaving out Roth, sorry but I am personally sick of Roth. Read too much of him in high school.
Got to say that I have never considered any of those to be a future for the US. As an outsider looking in, I became greatly confused by the "United" part of the states, what with the huge differences between each state in laws and policies. I have always theorised that it will simply fragment into seperate states that co-exist in a similar manner to other small countries on continents, like in Europe and Africa. But thats just my pet theory.
@Peppermint_m: Is it true Texas is big enough and powerful enough to cut away from America now and becoem a country of its own. It may have been a throw away comment I heard somewhere, so I could be completly wrong! But as a UK resident, it would be nice to know the facts from someone in or near Texas rather than internet (giant Jellyfish) rumour mongers!!!!
Haha. At least America has 3 options. Here in the UK we are fooked. Our Goverment is beyond curupt and the only other option is the BNP. If anyone in the US dont know who they are heres an easy way to remember them. Its he KKK in suits, just awful!!! And now in the North of Britian (thanks to our goverments expense scandals), most people have turned to them. Voted them a seat of power and now they are going to the EU to represent us. If thats not the biggest irony i dont know what is!!! Britians ruling is all over the place right now, and I for one would welcome a robot takeover or V for Vendetta style uprising. What did they say. 'People shouldnt be afraid of their goverment. The goverment should be afaid of its people'. How poetic and true.
I actually want the Monster Raving loony party in power!
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: I live in the Northwesyt of England and it was a bloody tradgedy. Im from a very multi ethnic background, and im very outspoken about multi ethnic comunities and how Britain as a whole should embrace that. In the Northwest where i live its definetly caused an ethnic split. Lots of my friends who i thought where level headed have actually gone on record and said the BNP will bring stability to the UK because all crime and problems are caused by asians and immigrants. I argued that its a bit from every comunity that makes or breaks the UK. Not just a few stereotyped comunitys. I agree its a friggin anoyance, i voted Labour, i trust tghem as much as i can spit. but it was them or the BNP. We knew this with the level of people turning to their outlook before the voting. So now the voting levels were so low that all the racist idiots who actually voted, voted for the wrong party in mine and many people opinions. Hers hoping Captain_Fitz is right about their influence in Europe...not lots!!
I'd say corporate feudalism, but that would imply that the corporations would bother to take care of those who lived under their rule, something it seems American corps are unwilling to do unless you have a string of initials after your name.
@Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H.: Heh, I know you were, but we must look to our future! (and really, if you're going to set it up, I'm gonna knock it outta the park)
@Grey_Area: That was my point. It's completely outdated and offensive, and nobody except assholes like the guy Ghost_in_the_Machine mentioned says it any more.
I think Brits still say "Oriental", which makes me think only of rug stores that are forever going out of business.
@Klebert L. Hall: As long as you keep signing your name like a doofus, I promise you that nobody will care about what you say. I can't explain it, but I can just tell that somehow you're giving off some serious internet stink. You're like that kid at a high school party who isn't wearing deodorant.
Wealthy companies like Google and Microsoft have more money than many nations. If Google merged with Northrop Grumman and bought Blackwater, could they take over the U.S. Government?
Google and Microsoft are far from the top end of corporate wealth and power. Large military supply organizations like General Dynamics (which actually exists), Raytheon, SNC Lavalin, Northrop Grummin, etc. Are probably the defacto strongest forces around. They're international and can do and build almost anything. Besides that, they supply arms and vehicles to the armed forces of the world.
@Mixiboi: Pretty much. Governments hire them and they build whatever. Most of these organizations just buy smaller companies that have expertises they might need. But they're giant and creepy and everywhere and can do pretty much everything.
Microsoft (or Google) could buy GD, Lockheed, and Northrop and still have room to pick up, say, Citigroup. While the military-industrial complex might have interesting power (and influence at many levels of government), they are still public companies with a particular market cap and float - so they can be bought hook line and sinker.
Makes me think that maybe that is *precisely* what Google should do. Larry - want to do no evil? Buy the military industrial complex and *shut it down*.
@jordan.greenhall: Uh..... On the list of Fortune 500 largest American companies, Microsoft is 35. Behind Citigroup and behind even Boeing - one of the US's largest defense contractors. And on the Global ranking, Microsoft is 136. I think you're overestimating their power.
Personally, I don't see America being relevant far enough into the future for any of these scenarios to be plausible. Empires come and go, and we've been around for quite some time. Even if one of these oracles came to pass, this country would no longer be "America".
I would like to see more sci-fi scenarios that are from a non-American viewpoint. Almost everything in the genre (at least what I see) is very much based on the idea that America (or it's ideals) will endure forever. Where's the science fiction that portrays the possibilities of China becoming the dominant world power? Or even South America?
Orson Scott Card has written at least one short story dealing with a Soviet-conquered US, "A Thousand Deaths" in his "Maps in a Mirror" compilation. Granted, the political situation (puppet US government, with the Kremlin as the real power) is merely a backdrop for a story about the futility of capital punishment as a means of steering political thought. Still, an interesting read.
@mykalgaidin: We've been around for quite some time?? In whose terms? 200 years may be a long time in the eyes of countries who change leadership every couple of months, but as far as strong nations, or 'empires' (which America is NOT an empire by any stretch of the definition) we're still fairly new.
Even IF America, or the idea of America goes away, the idea of freedom and democracy (for the people, by the people) will NEVER go away. Once people get a taste of freedom, you won't be able to subdue it. The government may crack down on rights slowly, but enough checks are built into the system to swing it the other way eventually. If it gets to a point where those checks are gone, revolution will happen. The idea of freedom and democracy cannot be extinguished.
@DoctorZoidberg: While I certainly appreciate your rigor in defending our shared ideals of liberty. I feel that your analysis is flawed.
In 200 years of American history, all we have seen is the erosion of the rights of men. The checks and balances of the constitution slow that erosion, but they cannot contain it.
Until we cast aside the idea of statism that Europe has embraced, and that our own government seeks to imitate (both parties are responsible, I'm not pointing fingers at our current administration) we will never again be free.
@ChicagoDog: Are you talking about when America was founded by rich white men for rich white men where women had no rights, minorities could be bought and sold, and most people toiled non-stop from before the sunrise to way after it set just to create enough to survive? Unless you were one of those rich white men any claims of being free back then is ludicrous. You might have had more freedom to move to an area where few people lived and therefore could live a life relatively free of government interference but those people still had to work beyond exhaustion every day of their lives just to stay alive and the government could still frak them over. You think I am being hyperbolic? Watch PBS's Frontier House reality series where they had modern Americans live the lives of frontier settlers in Montana and they found it a horrible life compared to what we have now. Yes, my freedom has been stolen even though my ancestors only had a few days of leisure a year while I get every weekend off and a couple of weeks of vacation. Yeah, it's horrible all those freedoms from the past have been curtailed at the expense of rich, white men and it's even worse that while your freedoms of having special priveleges for being male were eroded at the horrid cost of giving true freedom to the rest of American citizens. Yeap, freedom has been quashed by legislating the right for women, American Indians, and other minorities to vote, by implementing laws that made it illegal for five year olds to work in mills and for companies to sell rotting meat, and making it illegal to discriminate based on gender, race, religion, or nationality.
I'd like to know what freedoms all Americans have lost and not about the loss of special privilege white men have lost.
The Past always seems like a better place to people who are scared of the Future.
brentbent: C.O.C.K.R.O.A.C.H. )for all the queer super villians out there( was starred
brentbent: C.O.C.K.R.O.A.C.H. )for all the queer super villians out there( was unstarred
@Annalee Newitz: Fascist yes. Fragments? No. It can be divided, but only among upper echelon ROACH members who report directly to me. Ahem, I mean... The Potentate.
07/03/09
But no. People want to bitch about how evil the big corporations are but they don't want to deal with the sacrifice of going without the convenience of the goods and services that the big evil corporations provide.
It's like people who complain about how expensive cable TV is but they just keep buying it.
07/03/09
The only non-corporate organization powerful enough to keep track of corporations' actions are national governments.
07/03/09
07/03/09
07/03/09
As for leaving out Roth, sorry but I am personally sick of Roth. Read too much of him in high school.
07/03/09
As an outsider looking in, I became greatly confused by the "United" part of the states, what with the huge differences between each state in laws and policies.
I have always theorised that it will simply fragment into seperate states that co-exist in a similar manner to other small countries on continents, like in Europe and Africa.
But thats just my pet theory.
07/03/09
07/03/09
California is much more powerful economically.
07/03/09
I actually want the Monster Raving loony party in power!
07/03/09
Last I checked, they were somewhat different.
07/03/09
So it seems to be England with the problem of electing the racists, then. Not Scotland, Wales, or NI.
07/03/09
07/03/09
England and Britain are not the same.
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/03/09
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07/02/09
Which historians are those? Amity Shlaes is about the only one I could imagine. And she is wacko.
07/02/09
Such a 50's-60's word.
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/03/09
I say Chi-Coms, but only as a retro insult.
-Kle.
07/03/09
I think Brits still say "Oriental", which makes me think only of rug stores that are forever going out of business.
07/03/09
07/03/09
And here I thought my opinion of them couldn't get any lower.
07/04/09
07/02/09
07/03/09
07/02/09
Google and Microsoft are far from the top end of corporate wealth and power. Large military supply organizations like General Dynamics (which actually exists), Raytheon, SNC Lavalin, Northrop Grummin, etc. Are probably the defacto strongest forces around. They're international and can do and build almost anything. Besides that, they supply arms and vehicles to the armed forces of the world.
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/03/09
07/03/09
07/03/09
Microsoft (or Google) could buy GD, Lockheed, and Northrop and still have room to pick up, say, Citigroup. While the military-industrial complex might have interesting power (and influence at many levels of government), they are still public companies with a particular market cap and float - so they can be bought hook line and sinker.
Makes me think that maybe that is *precisely* what Google should do. Larry - want to do no evil? Buy the military industrial complex and *shut it down*.
07/03/09
07/02/09
I would like to see more sci-fi scenarios that are from a non-American viewpoint. Almost everything in the genre (at least what I see) is very much based on the idea that America (or it's ideals) will endure forever. Where's the science fiction that portrays the possibilities of China becoming the dominant world power? Or even South America?
Orson Scott Card has written at least one short story dealing with a Soviet-conquered US, "A Thousand Deaths" in his "Maps in a Mirror" compilation. Granted, the political situation (puppet US government, with the Kremlin as the real power) is merely a backdrop for a story about the futility of capital punishment as a means of steering political thought. Still, an interesting read.
07/02/09
Even IF America, or the idea of America goes away, the idea of freedom and democracy (for the people, by the people) will NEVER go away. Once people get a taste of freedom, you won't be able to subdue it. The government may crack down on rights slowly, but enough checks are built into the system to swing it the other way eventually. If it gets to a point where those checks are gone, revolution will happen. The idea of freedom and democracy cannot be extinguished.
07/03/09
In 200 years of American history, all we have seen is the erosion of the rights of men. The checks and balances of the constitution slow that erosion, but they cannot contain it.
Until we cast aside the idea of statism that Europe has embraced, and that our own government seeks to imitate (both parties are responsible, I'm not pointing fingers at our current administration) we will never again be free.
07/03/09
I'd like to know what freedoms all Americans have lost and not about the loss of special privilege white men have lost.
The Past always seems like a better place to people who are scared of the Future.
07/03/09
07/02/09
We at ROACH are happy to welcome you all as our new underlings. We are your new evil overlords.
07/02/09
07/02/09
07/02/09
Knowing my luck I'll be the plucky young side kick that dies to show how serious your evil is.
07/02/09