This is probably only tangentially related, but the attempt to come up with a broad umbrella term that includes several different genres that feel related, without pinning any of them down too much, made me think of it.
I realized recently that the "genre" (in quotes because I'm not sure that this can be considered a real genre except inside my brain) that I tend to love best is the one that, if it takes place in the real world as it is, is not content to do so, but that does not do this in a purely escapist way (I like pure escapism, but it's not my favorite genre). In other words, it's art that in some way rejects the real world, or evaluates it and finds it unacceptable. (I don't, by the way, mean this in a necessarily political way; of course political commentary can be part of it, but it's not enough on its own to qualify for inclusion here.)
"Slipstream", I think, was an attempt to partially describe this genre. Too bad the name sucked (as has been pointed out). "Speculative fiction", I realized after I thought of all this, almost works, though I don't think it's inclusive enough (not all of it is fiction, and it doesn't make much sense to call, say, The Big Sleep "speculative"). I guess the genre doesn't need to have a name, particularly since I doubt bookstores are going to start organizing themselves according to the way my brain categorizes things anytime soon. But it's still fun to think about.
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: Are you sure "fannish" includes Raymond Chandler, Egon Schiele, and Stanley Kubrick's non-sci-fi movies, while at the same time excluding (or maybe I should say not including, because that sounds less harsh), I don't know, Terry Brooks? Because I'm not at all sure that it does those things.
This quote reminds me of a discussion from almost a month ago on the role of surprise in fiction. Most of the community seemed to be of the opinion that surprise was a cheap gimmick that was usually a sign of weak writing.
I believe that experiencing something unexpected while interacting with a work of fiction is one of the most valuable things that the work can provide.
Yes, there are cheap surprises and those have no place in the best writing, but this quote perfectly captures the correct role of surprising your audience.
Sci-Fi: fiction and screenwriting adhering to a set of literary tropes that describe worlds improbable or impossible in lieu of technologies currently available to society.
Spec Fic: fiction and screenwriting that seeks to describe a world that may be probable or possible given a society's steady technological advancement and the perpetuation of a social injustice.
SyFy: screenwriting that seeks to describe a world where coherent plotlines are improbable or impossible in lieu of continuous battles between professional wrestlers and gigantic reptiles.
In the end, it may not matter when books like Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters are shelved as new non-fiction:
http://irreference.com/sea-monsters-a-surprising-debut-in-new-nonfiction/#comment-528
@NefariousNewt a.k.a. General Awesomesauce: No, speculative fiction is specialized, it's fiction that is based on a certain difference from reality and the ramifications. Most works that are truly speculative fiction deal with how the reality of the story is different from the reality of the reader because of a "small" change.
There's a slight but important distinction between "stuff is different and I use it for setting" vs. "stuff is different and I use it for conflict."
Speculative fiction is a license for an author to take any public figure/personality/celebrity that he wants and make that person as horrid or as wonderful as he wants without repercussion.
He brings up an interesting point, our expectations can really dictate the effect of a story. We see this with movies, and TV, when we are shown most of the highlights or story climax in the advertisements. Im not sure that simply defining a new genre, will ever really stop that trend though.
He does have an advantage as a writer though, at least the visuals are still up to our imagination.
Star Wars aside, I prefer my science fiction without nonsense like psychic powers. To me that's just magic and belongs in a fantasy story.
I guess I'm willing to make exceptions though. I liked Minority Report as movie though. I just ignored all the precognition stuff and focused on the futuristic, and mostly plausible, tech.
@corpore-metal: so you'd be ok with stories that have psychic powers in them if we ever advance to the point where they appear to be the next imminant step in development?
If the telepathy could be explained in a way that is remotely plausible, perhaps zillions of nanobots in my brain wiretapping my neurons, sending these signals out through a fiber optic cable to another person with similar nanobots and cable in his head. This might be just remotely believable enough for me to suspend disbelief. But telepathy based on some mysterious, physics defying ectoplasmic juice? No.
Precognition might also just be remotely acceptable to me if it was some very indirect, mathematical refinement to social sciences, like psychohistory. But having dreams about my mother dying in a car crash the night before. No. That's just coincidence.
Telekineses or any form of mind over matter is right out. If I wanna set something on fire, I don't just furrow my brow and chant real hard, I just turn a flamethrower on it.
All my examples require an instrumentality of some kind and are based real science that's just remotely possible.
Ectoplasmic psionic juice or The Force is just other words for mana or magic. It's hooey that ruins a modern science fiction story for me.
@corpore-metal: my point was really that those positions only hold based on what we know now. 300 years ago talking to someone on the other side of the planet without connecting wires would have been fantasy, 200 years ago the same situation would have been science fiction, and 100 years ago it became a reality (dates aproximate).
one century's man's ectoplasmic juice could be another century's man's quantum entanglement.
Sorry but quantum theory provides no support at all for psychic powers.
All the quantum la-la books that has been touted over the last 30 years where the authors claim that QM supports auras, dowsing and other such nonsense are just arm chair theorists who don't really understand quantum theory.
Of course we could discover some utterly new kind of physics that somehow extends known physics and somehow supports the claims of spirit mediums, Jeane Dixon, Uri Geller and so on then okay. But in over two centuries of looking and decades of parapsychological research we haven't found anything yet.
Now, a real scientist would say lack of evidence is no reason, by itself, to stop looking and I believe parapsychology research should go on. But in my personal opinion, psychic stuff is bunk.
@corpore-metal: again, that's true now but it may or may not be true in the future which leads to the conclusion that the difference between sci-fi and fantasy is not what's on the pages as much as it's what century the reader is living in.
Internet communities love to wade through crap to find good material, and a sea of crap with real gems in it is what they dream about.
I mean no offense, but people like to be critics and enough critics on a format as malleable as the internet is makes it entirely likely that the sea will be thoroughly panned for those precious gems. Sites will open, sites will become popular, people will find the books they want to read with the advice of a few paid people and a veritable HORDE of volunteers.
@Balius: publishers already produce books based on what is popular so there's no reason to change the system if that's the goal. the problem in both systems is what is popular and what is worthy of merit are often not the same thing.
Oh joy. The good writers won't bother, b/c they're not getting paid, so it'll be just more fanfic and vanity press stuff without the paper.
I suppose it's good for the trees who won't have to die, but it's bad for my eyes and my brain.
Back in the day, even the quality of fanfic was better, b/c the cost of printing stuff, binding it, and mailing it out or schlepping it to cons made editor/publishers think more carefully about what they printed. And before computers, oy! With the typing, and the fabled hectograph (before my time, luckily, but I've heard tales).
(I speak from experience in my past life as an editor of strictly PG-13 zines.)
Taking Sturgeon's Law into account, we'll have the same percentage of crap, but the overall amount will be impossible to wade through to find the gems. No matter how many friends you have to recommend stuff.
09/16/09
I realized recently that the "genre" (in quotes because I'm not sure that this can be considered a real genre except inside my brain) that I tend to love best is the one that, if it takes place in the real world as it is, is not content to do so, but that does not do this in a purely escapist way (I like pure escapism, but it's not my favorite genre). In other words, it's art that in some way rejects the real world, or evaluates it and finds it unacceptable. (I don't, by the way, mean this in a necessarily political way; of course political commentary can be part of it, but it's not enough on its own to qualify for inclusion here.)
I thought of this when I was trying to figure out why pure science fiction (from Asimov and Clarke to Ballard and Gibson), contemporary fantasy, all good horror, and some seemingly non-SF* works like certain types of mysteries (particularly noir style), movies as diverse as Annie Hall, Eyes Wide Shut, and Cabaret, the works of Céline and Camus, a good deal of Russ Meyer/John Waters style camp (including live drag performance), as well non-narrative art like the paintings of Egon Schiele or the music of Brian Eno (or, for that matter, a lot of what Timbaland does), all belong to the same category in my head, despite their vast differences. This view of the world-as-it-is as unacceptable is I think what they all have in common. (And that already long and convoluted list is of course nowhere near comprehensive.)
"Slipstream", I think, was an attempt to partially describe this genre. Too bad the name sucked (as has been pointed out). "Speculative fiction", I realized after I thought of all this, almost works, though I don't think it's inclusive enough (not all of it is fiction, and it doesn't make much sense to call, say, The Big Sleep "speculative"). I guess the genre doesn't need to have a name, particularly since I doubt bookstores are going to start organizing themselves according to the way my brain categorizes things anytime soon. But it's still fun to think about.
*whatever it stands for
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/17/09
09/16/09
I believe that experiencing something unexpected while interacting with a work of fiction is one of the most valuable things that the work can provide.
Yes, there are cheap surprises and those have no place in the best writing, but this quote perfectly captures the correct role of surprising your audience.
09/16/09
09/16/09
Sci-Fi: fiction and screenwriting adhering to a set of literary tropes that describe worlds improbable or impossible in lieu of technologies currently available to society.
Spec Fic: fiction and screenwriting that seeks to describe a world that may be probable or possible given a society's steady technological advancement and the perpetuation of a social injustice.
SyFy: screenwriting that seeks to describe a world where coherent plotlines are improbable or impossible in lieu of continuous battles between professional wrestlers and gigantic reptiles.
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
http://irreference.com/sea-monsters-a-surprising-debut-in-new-nonfiction/#comment-528
09/16/09
09/16/09
Or, heck, just "prose". Then you can won't even know in advance whether it is truth or fancy.
Genre labels exist for a reason; they are a filter used for selection of what sort of fiction one is interested in.
09/16/09
09/16/09
There's a slight but important distinction between "stuff is different and I use it for setting" vs. "stuff is different and I use it for conflict."
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
09/16/09
He brings up an interesting point, our expectations can really dictate the effect of a story. We see this with movies, and TV, when we are shown most of the highlights or story climax in the advertisements. Im not sure that simply defining a new genre, will ever really stop that trend though.
He does have an advantage as a writer though, at least the visuals are still up to our imagination.
09/16/09
09/16/09
04/15/09
04/15/09
Star Wars aside, I prefer my science fiction without nonsense like psychic powers. To me that's just magic and belongs in a fantasy story.
I guess I'm willing to make exceptions though. I liked Minority Report as movie though. I just ignored all the precognition stuff and focused on the futuristic, and mostly plausible, tech.
04/15/09
04/15/09
If the telepathy could be explained in a way that is remotely plausible, perhaps zillions of nanobots in my brain wiretapping my neurons, sending these signals out through a fiber optic cable to another person with similar nanobots and cable in his head. This might be just remotely believable enough for me to suspend disbelief. But telepathy based on some mysterious, physics defying ectoplasmic juice? No.
Precognition might also just be remotely acceptable to me if it was some very indirect, mathematical refinement to social sciences, like psychohistory. But having dreams about my mother dying in a car crash the night before. No. That's just coincidence.
Telekineses or any form of mind over matter is right out. If I wanna set something on fire, I don't just furrow my brow and chant real hard, I just turn a flamethrower on it.
All my examples require an instrumentality of some kind and are based real science that's just remotely possible.
Ectoplasmic psionic juice or The Force is just other words for mana or magic. It's hooey that ruins a modern science fiction story for me.
04/15/09
one century's man's ectoplasmic juice could be another century's man's quantum entanglement.
04/15/09
Sorry but quantum theory provides no support at all for psychic powers.
All the quantum la-la books that has been touted over the last 30 years where the authors claim that QM supports auras, dowsing and other such nonsense are just arm chair theorists who don't really understand quantum theory.
Of course we could discover some utterly new kind of physics that somehow extends known physics and somehow supports the claims of spirit mediums, Jeane Dixon, Uri Geller and so on then okay. But in over two centuries of looking and decades of parapsychological research we haven't found anything yet.
Now, a real scientist would say lack of evidence is no reason, by itself, to stop looking and I believe parapsychology research should go on. But in my personal opinion, psychic stuff is bunk.
04/15/09
02/16/09
01/22/09
I mean no offense, but people like to be critics and enough critics on a format as malleable as the internet is makes it entirely likely that the sea will be thoroughly panned for those precious gems. Sites will open, sites will become popular, people will find the books they want to read with the advice of a few paid people and a veritable HORDE of volunteers.
01/23/09
01/22/09
I suppose it's good for the trees who won't have to die, but it's bad for my eyes and my brain.
Back in the day, even the quality of fanfic was better, b/c the cost of printing stuff, binding it, and mailing it out or schlepping it to cons made editor/publishers think more carefully about what they printed. And before computers, oy! With the typing, and the fabled hectograph (before my time, luckily, but I've heard tales).
(I speak from experience in my past life as an editor of strictly PG-13 zines.)
Taking Sturgeon's Law into account, we'll have the same percentage of crap, but the overall amount will be impossible to wade through to find the gems. No matter how many friends you have to recommend stuff.
01/22/09
01/22/09
01/22/09
01/22/09
01/22/09
01/22/09
@Belabras: Here:
01/22/09
01/22/09
I never new a diagram could be so singularily englightening.
is that amazon review of the book yours moff?
01/22/09