It's amazing how much tiny changes in DNA can cause such huge differences in species. It's been millions of years and we're so different from chimps, yet 98% of our DNA is the same.
I shall now go eat a banana in solidarity with my ancestors and cousins. Ook.
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: Also, epigenetics! Those genes can turn on and off!
Though, I take issue with the banana eating. The big yellow Cavendish banana that we eat today is completely artificial. Go eat some african fruits and monkeys, and you'd be closer to the right stuff (though it might not be as delicious!)
@The_Sporean_Bob: I know how artificial the banana is, but I've got ripe ones I need to eat soon. :) And you can't deny that chimps like our engineered bananas too.
From what I've heard, that 98% DNA thing is a factoid that has been misinterpreted by many. We share our DNA with most of the animals on the planet, so that 2% makes a difference.
"Humans did not evolve from chimpanzees but rather through a series of progenitors starting from a distant common ancestor that once occupied the ancient forests of the African Micoene."
Isn't this Anthropology 101? Or even Biology 101?
How come every time a new fossil discovery appears in the news, the headlines always say something like "DARWIN PROVEN WRONG. Scientists discover that evolution may be based on genetic changes within populations of organisms over a series of generations rather than whatever the fuck it was before."
The term "missing link" is a common misconception. There is NO missing link. Evolution isn't like a chain, with one link missing between monkey and man. Evolution is a tree, with many different types of ancestors, or branches, who lived on this planet in the past. This type of human (Ardipithecus ramidus) isn't even like us, Homo sapiens, rather just a distant relative of the past.
The press stinks when it comes to reporting these finds because they will undoubtedly mention this "missing link" term, which doesn't exist.
@LindsayGaia: They call it that because a lot of the reading public still has some reservation about accepting evolution wholeheartedly. Calling it a 'missing link' helps them ease their minds into the idea, as opposed to just flat out rejecting a common notion.
I mean, it's a lame excuse for watering down science, but it helps an entire branch of my family tree.
@LindsayGaia: Yes, it annoys me too. Especially as it means that whatever species you do find a creationist could still come along and demand you point to something inbetween those too -_-
Even if there -was- a continuous chain, there could always be claims to be a missing link, just like theres always an inbetween decimal number.
@ThisDudeRufus: not really, because if you try to sale them the idea of a liner line, very obvious holes in it can be pointed out. ("If man evolved from apes, how come theres still apes!" -_-)
All this proves is that an ancient man had sex with a chimp and this is what they got. I don't know why they keep trying to figure out where humans evolved from. We are all going to be dead in three years anyway. We need to be building a space ark instead of digging around looking at old rocks.
@ drk_cyde: I'm not very edumacated, but every time I see a picture of what one of our ancestors (or relative of our ancestors) looks like, I get all happy inside. Then I look at myself and realize I don't look that fundamentally different. It's like looking at yourself, but a long time ago.
To me, that is just amazing and shows how incredible life really is. I don't know why some people find it so scary, or even insulting that we just didn't appear out of thin air, or that we have this diverse heritage. I have spiritual beliefs but they are only confirmed when I see stuff like this. I guess to others it has the opposite effect.
@se7a7n7: It's not a very good book for religion, either, unless your religion approves of torturing and killing anyone different than you and treating women as property.
@drk_cyde: I think its unfair the bible is put up against science all the time.
We should instead compare it to something equaly consistent and logical; BSG
@csanders984: Actualy, it always annoyed me the term Interligent Design was taken onboard by the anti-evolution/god crowd.
Id happly accept the possibility of, say, a pre-evolved sentient species messing with our dna. Its not necessary, but its a possibility.
However as soon as people think some old book is more trustworthy then hundreds of thousands of people dedicating their lives to studying the world, I get depressed for humanity.
Science is work. Its admitting mistakes, and constantly refineing an idea. If you just get your answers magicaly from somewhere, and your never prepared to admit your wrong, your never going to be right either.
...The discovery of Ardi, however, suggests that when we do find that evolutionary break...
Stop. Please. We've discovered dozens of "missing links." Writing like this just gives aid and comfort to Creationists who will quote it out of context and then shout, "Aha! When we find missing links! Those evil Darwinists are still looking for Java Man!"
While this is a great and exciting find, it doesn't prove anything we didn't already know for over a century.
@Faustroll: I presonally don't find the quoted statement wrong, since we don't have the human/ape common ancestor yet.
Also, if you consider the "Missing Link" to be the common ancestor, and not just the transitional forms after the split we've found, then I'd say we are still looking for the "missing link", despite how creationists twist that into propaganda.
So, basically, we shouldn't refer to it in this way, despite it being pretty much correct, because creationist scum bags have tagged negative shit onto the word to use against evolution? Isn't that kind of a victory for the creationists?
They can take practically any scientific writing, pull it out of context and peddle it successfully to the ignorant.
@Faustroll: "it doesn't prove anything we didn't already know for over a century."
1) Science don't work in proofs, only math does.
2) I'm sure the study authors will be happy to know the last 17 years of their academic lives "don't prove anything new".
3) The only reason I'm griefing you about this is because you gave the original author grief about the term "missing link". A sci fi website's pop sci article uses a scientifically not-completely accurate term? Zounds! Obviously you must smash them with rocks.
@axlotl: We do actually have a large number of human/ape common ancestors. We may not have the most recent human/ape common ancestor, and there's no reason to believe we ever will (hardly any species wind up being preserved as even a single fossil, since fossilization is so rare) and even if we had it, there's no way we could know it was the most recent.
@artiofab: You have to point out misconceptions before they can be fixed, sometimes repeatedly. And I'd rather bitch and moan about this than, say, the faulty logic on Lost, any day.
@crashfrog: Let me clarify, that is what I meant, the most recent common ancestor.
If you took the direct ancestors that led to man, and the ones that led to chimp, the first species you find going backwards in time that is in both lineages is the common ancestor I meant with everything I typed that involved "common ancestor".
I fully agree that we probably won't find it, much less be able to prove that it was the most recent common ancestor. I was talking more so in a hypothetical sense than what we'll really uncover.
That most recent common ancestor is the ONLY type of fossil i would consider the "missing link" title appropriate for, but only in regards to the relationship of 2 species. With out specifying the 2 species being related, most species would be links between 2 other species, making nearly every unknown creature a missing link. Using the term that way, as it is often in new stories, is pointless.
But when talking about a hypothetical species that was the most recent, and final, common ancestor, the term seems valid in my mind. Its an unknown species, and it links the 2 separate branches of the evolutionary tree.
To reiterate, I only mean this in regards to examining 2 specific branches of the evolutionary tree, not to any species that forms a tree crotch on the evolutionary tree.
"The discovery of Ardi, however, suggests that when we do find that evolutionary break, the fossils we find will not be a blend of human and chimpanzee."
Um, obviously. We never thought we would be. We didn't evolve from modern Chimps, we evolved from the ancestors of modern chimps and us.
Either way, cool article. I did not know ancient apes were palmigrade!
@Anekanta: Yep. These critters had such long arms that they didn't have to walk on hands and knees. Has to be easier than knuckle walking. Seems really convenient, I wonder why our arms got shorter? And why did the apes become knuckle users?
@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: While I can't think of any reason why other apes became knuckle walkers besides just random mutation (i.e. I can't think of the selective pressure), the reason our arms are shorter in comparison to other apes (and the reason we look so different from them in most ways) is because we evolved to become long distance runners, as the theory goes. shorter arms are much more energy efficient to lock into position and swing back and forth!
10/01/09
I shall now go eat a banana in solidarity with my ancestors and cousins. Ook.
10/01/09
Though, I take issue with the banana eating. The big yellow Cavendish banana that we eat today is completely artificial. Go eat some african fruits and monkeys, and you'd be closer to the right stuff (though it might not be as delicious!)
10/01/09
10/02/09
From what I've heard, that 98% DNA thing is a factoid that has been misinterpreted by many. We share our DNA with most of the animals on the planet, so that 2% makes a difference.
10/01/09
Isn't this Anthropology 101? Or even Biology 101?
How come every time a new fossil discovery appears in the news, the headlines always say something like "DARWIN PROVEN WRONG. Scientists discover that evolution may be based on genetic changes within populations of organisms over a series of generations rather than whatever the fuck it was before."
10/01/09
The press stinks when it comes to reporting these finds because they will undoubtedly mention this "missing link" term, which doesn't exist.
10/01/09
I mean, it's a lame excuse for watering down science, but it helps an entire branch of my family tree.
10/01/09
10/01/09
Even if there -was- a continuous chain, there could always be claims to be a missing link, just like theres always an inbetween decimal number.
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10/01/09
Pshaw! Don't those scientists know that the missing link looks like this.
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Lot's of them.
10/01/09
Anyone?
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Dad - wear a shirt next time you throw a pool party. Nobody wants to see that.
E.
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Fap!
10/01/09
To me, that is just amazing and shows how incredible life really is. I don't know why some people find it so scary, or even insulting that we just didn't appear out of thin air, or that we have this diverse heritage. I have spiritual beliefs but they are only confirmed when I see stuff like this. I guess to others it has the opposite effect.
10/01/09
10/01/09
Of course I haven't seen her...
10/01/09
The Bible is a good book for religion. The Bible is not a good book for science.
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10/01/09
The Bible : a great book of stories
10/01/09
We should instead compare it to something equaly consistent and logical; BSG
10/01/09
Id happly accept the possibility of, say, a pre-evolved sentient species messing with our dna. Its not necessary, but its a possibility.
However as soon as people think some old book is more trustworthy then hundreds of thousands of people dedicating their lives to studying the world, I get depressed for humanity.
Science is work. Its admitting mistakes, and constantly refineing an idea. If you just get your answers magicaly from somewhere, and your never prepared to admit your wrong, your never going to be right either.
10/02/09
10/02/09
Not sure where you get that from.
10/01/09
10/01/09
Stop. Please. We've discovered dozens of "missing links." Writing like this just gives aid and comfort to Creationists who will quote it out of context and then shout, "Aha! When we find missing links! Those evil Darwinists are still looking for Java Man!"
While this is a great and exciting find, it doesn't prove anything we didn't already know for over a century.
10/01/09
Also, if you consider the "Missing Link" to be the common ancestor, and not just the transitional forms after the split we've found, then I'd say we are still looking for the "missing link", despite how creationists twist that into propaganda.
So, basically, we shouldn't refer to it in this way, despite it being pretty much correct, because creationist scum bags have tagged negative shit onto the word to use against evolution? Isn't that kind of a victory for the creationists?
They can take practically any scientific writing, pull it out of context and peddle it successfully to the ignorant.
10/01/09
1) Science don't work in proofs, only math does.
2) I'm sure the study authors will be happy to know the last 17 years of their academic lives "don't prove anything new".
3) The only reason I'm griefing you about this is because you gave the original author grief about the term "missing link". A sci fi website's pop sci article uses a scientifically not-completely accurate term? Zounds! Obviously you must smash them with rocks.
10/01/09
10/01/09
10/01/09
If you took the direct ancestors that led to man, and the ones that led to chimp, the first species you find going backwards in time that is in both lineages is the common ancestor I meant with everything I typed that involved "common ancestor".
I fully agree that we probably won't find it, much less be able to prove that it was the most recent common ancestor. I was talking more so in a hypothetical sense than what we'll really uncover.
That most recent common ancestor is the ONLY type of fossil i would consider the "missing link" title appropriate for, but only in regards to the relationship of 2 species. With out specifying the 2 species being related, most species would be links between 2 other species, making nearly every unknown creature a missing link. Using the term that way, as it is often in new stories, is pointless.
But when talking about a hypothetical species that was the most recent, and final, common ancestor, the term seems valid in my mind. Its an unknown species, and it links the 2 separate branches of the evolutionary tree.
To reiterate, I only mean this in regards to examining 2 specific branches of the evolutionary tree, not to any species that forms a tree crotch on the evolutionary tree.
10/01/09
Um, obviously. We never thought we would be. We didn't evolve from modern Chimps, we evolved from the ancestors of modern chimps and us.
Either way, cool article. I did not know ancient apes were palmigrade!
10/01/09
I didn't get too far in my physical anthropology.
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I can see this in some future story where people get genetically engineered for some task or planet, though. The long arms might be useful.