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President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State

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Moff
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Also, I know it's just words -- of course, the whole policy review is just words -- but isn't the bit about addressing "privacy and civil liberties interests" a hopeful sign here?
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Moff: I think it is a hopeful sign, but I worry that it will turn into nothing more than that. It's easy to claim that a Facebook-like system addresses privacy interests because it has privacy settings. As several people in comments have already noted, however, privacy settings don't really solve the anonymity problem.

Here's an example: What if you work as a school teacher, and that is your identity on Facebook, but you also post in a forum for gays and lesbians? If parents discovered you were an evil gay, you might lose your job. But you are allowed only one identity online. It's either post as your Facebook self in the gay forums, or nothing. So you sacrifice your ability to speak to other gay people because you need that job.
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Moff
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Is there some middle ground, though? One of the ideas I've been tossing around in my head is a local news site that you'd have to have a single, ID-verified account to use. If you wanted to, say, reply to a classified ad, you'd have to be signed in to your account, which would be traceable back to you, a confirmed real person, identifiable by the site admins, which would seriously cut back on spam.

And you'd use the same account for, say, commenting, but you'd have the option to comment anonymously/under a different handle. Again, the site admins could ID you if necessary, but one hopes that responsible terms of service being observed by all parties could mitigate abuse.

I think people are interested in ways to tie online identities to real-life identities for some very good reasons, although I certainly don't think such a thing should be government-mandated. But maybe the best solution is for responsible companies to find ways to alleviate the problems before too many folks start clamoring for the government to step in?
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Steverino Begins
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Hmm, government might be interested in e-authentication, but I think the Facebook connection is a bit of a leap of logic.

Maybe they would create a separate website that could work in conjunction with other sites like Facebook? So you could log into MySocialSecurity.com or whatever, then log onto Facebook through that site and "stamp" your Facebook profile to prove you are who you say you are. And you could similarly "stamp" your email accounts as well.

Shit would hit the fan if government went so far as to *require* that all email accounts be verified or stamped.
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Steverino Begins: Yeah I imagine it would be a site *like* Facebook, not Facebook itself. Though the government might pay Facebook to develop it based on Facebook software.
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alphanumeric1971
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
After a long and thoughtful deliberation my response to you madam....

FUCK THAT!!!

Good day to you madam.
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@alphanumeric1971: Hey what do you care? You're Canadian.
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Grey_Area
05/29/09

@Annalee Newitz: He's just jealous because he doesn't get a cool barcode tattoo like we do.
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viloki9
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Wow, if any of you actually believe this is even implementable, that means you don't understand how the internet works. The government has been making proposals like this for years, but their proposals fall through because you CAN'T do it. Not to mention, America doesn't OWN the internet, in order for this new system to even work at all, every country in the world would have to agree to it. The only other option would be create a U.S. internal intranet separate from the internet, but since the gov. would monitor the intranet, who the hell would even use it?
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@viloki9: US businesses can require people to use an authenticated ID, however. This has nothing to do with "the internet," it has to do with the ways that people verify their identites to web applications (or other applications). You can do it over any old set of tubes.
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Grey_Area
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Now hold on there everybody, how do we know this was written by the real Annalee Newitz?
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Grey_Area: It was just somebody who logged in using my name. Or wait, maybe I am somebody who just logged in using her name!
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Grey_Area
05/29/09

@Annalee Newitz: O NOES, WHO THE HELL AM I?!

[checks label on boxers]

Ah, 'sokay, I am someone called Hane.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
05/29/09

@Grey_Area: I don't have a Facebook account! So I'm nobody!

[checks briefs]

Oh, I'm Victoria, and my identity is Secret. Till now.
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Moff
05/29/09

@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: Hey, that's what it says on mine too!
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
05/29/09

@Moff: We can't be the same person! (ya perv)
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Adam Simon
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Yes, the government could use Facebook, but antitrust regulations would likely require that any number of other companies be allowed to compete as identity authentication services. (If they didn't, this entire system would be delayed a decade while it worked its way up the courts.) Other social networks like Twitter would be obvious choices, but my guess is that the leader in the field would wind up being a startup that specializes in *only* managing and verifying your identity, for the precise reasons you've outlined above.
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Adam Simon: Totally agree about Facebook - I just used that as an example.
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Lassus
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
"There's a general notion that your Facebook identity is your authentic identity, or at least an identity that you keep over time, and that its characteristics can be traced back to who you are in real life."

There's are an awful lot of general notions, but I can't remember one so patently false as this one. (And I don't mean to say it's your notion in particular, Annalee.) I'm colloquial example #1. I have no regular Facebook account, but I have one I use that is specifically false, solely for when people send me something that requires me to have Facebook to check out. I have no friends, no pictures, and belong to nothing. My user is a 98-year-old person from Wyoming who uses a random unknown 19-century music historian as a name.

I am simply not so innovative and clever to be the only one who's done this.

Why would ANYONE assume that Facebook is some kind of even remotely accurate identity card? That's just freaking bizarre.
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Lassus: I agree that the idea is bizarre. But consider it this way: Your Facebook ID doesn't need to reference your real-life ID to be "authenticated." You just need to use it in a persistent fashion so that all your online transactions are traceable back to it, thus giving you a single reputation that evolves over time. That's the essence of identity management. Your (fake) Facebook self becomes the "authenticated you" online. If you're using Facebook to do all your online transactions, it still becomes a "real" identity in that sense. And ultimately it probably will be traceable back to your real self, especially if you use it to do anything related to credit cards.
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Elizabeth Weinbloom
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Cool. I'm the 251st member of facebook. (for real!) (...i was procrastinating on a paper, okay?) That makes me more American than all but 250 of you! MUA HA HA!
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Mount_Prion
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
Somebody's In an Open Relationship with the Government!

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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Mount_Prion: C.U.C.A.R.A.C.H.A.: If only. Sadly I'm completely monogamous with the USA. All my open relationships are with people.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
05/29/09

@Annalee Newitz: You look really good for your age, too. Nowhere near 80.
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acrobatic rabbit
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
ah Annalee, how I've missed your cyberpolitical commentaries. This is interesting because the internet has been where most people hide their true identities, like you said. To roll back the covers and expose people's true identities could have consequences not yet determined.
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Mount_Prion
05/29/09

@acrobatic rabbit_R.O.A.C.H.: Turns out I'm George Clinton.

Whoda thunk it?
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oboesqueaks
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
I don't have facebook... does that mean I don't exist?
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@oboesqueaks: If you want to exist, we're going to ask you (nicely, at first) to get a Facebook account.
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perfectoon_0901
05/29/09

@oboesqueaks: you and me, we become the underground
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Grey_Area
05/29/09

@perfectoon_0901: If you are reading this you are the Resistance!
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Gothamite88
05/29/09

In reply to President Obama Welcomes the Cyber State
I don't want to have my I.D. be something that requires I also have friends
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Annalee Newitz
05/29/09

@Gothamite88: That's how we'll "authenticate" you - by making sure your friends seem real.
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