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Sun Dec 6
12 posts in the last 24 hours
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#1 is, to me, the killer -- because it makes the people of the village seem like fools or else entirely conscious dupes, which rather, again, defeats the purpose.
Humanizing No. 2, however, I think was the right idea -- because while we might have been able, as a viewing audience, to feel entirely separate from the surveillance society portrayed in the original series, now we are all, to some extent or another, complicit in it. And thus, to see the internal lives of the wardens, as well as the prisoner, is important.
Also, it becomes more critical if you're going to try and play the idea of "There is nothing but the village", because then, unlike the original series, where No. 2 did not need to be divided against himself, here, he clearly is.
#5 -- My first comment to anyone about the show was "My gods, Patrick McGoohan's much butcher than Jim Cavaziel -- then again, McGoohan had creative control."
I think that the notion of Jason Bourne vs. the Village is precisely what the original series was -- McGoohan's character was the superspy. I think, though I may be giving the creators too much credit, that they were trying to make the new No. 6 someone easier for us to identify with in a "Hey, I could be that guy" level, rather than the hero-identification level.
I'm disappointed in the series, so far, but I'm going to keep watching. They just could have done so much better...
The only prisoner remake I was ever excited about was the one that was supposed to star Clive Owen several years ago. I think even McGoohan was cool with the idea, which surprised me.
Sadly, I think you can sum all six of those up under the single massive crime of "Not knowing exactly which direction to go, so attempting to find a middle ground on everything."
Watching these last 4 hours has been like watching a tug of war between one show that wants to remain faithful to the spirit of Patrick McGoohan, and one that wants to be Lost. The end result is a 'good idea one minute, terrible idea the next' trainwreck. #theprisoner
while i agree that the things you've listed, i am still enjoying this interpretation of themes that the original expressed more subtlely, as undertones. specifically, i'm happier with this version more blatantly exploring 2s experience in the village as an exercise of transcendence, the heavy allegorical suggestion that he is 1 (ego), 2 is the superego and 6 is the id (to simplify what is obviously a much more complex concept). the original, in my opinion, was much more literal and so long as this version is viewed in that literal context, the viewer won't be satisfied. that being said, the literal battle of the wills between the id (6) and superego (2) weakens the allegory. this 2 is a much more willing and powerless participant in the metaphysical experience.
as someone that has enjoyed what i've seen so far (hours 1 and 2) i must say i find myself agreeing that 6's lack of violence is perplexing. he's been around 2 dozens of times and in every scene where they're together i can't help put wonder what would happen if he palmed a stiletto and stabbed him in the neck. #theprisoner
No More YARM for me.I can always watch the real Prisoner that is the 1960's original.Hollywood time to stop raping people's past and write new things. #theprisoner
@gorehound: bravo. yet another piss-take from us americans. bbc make a fine series. hollywood runs out of original ideas, and tries to make it fit for american tv. wrong-wrong, mad-mad. i was originally excited to hear about this on amc, i love madmen. then i started seeing the preview spots. i am pretty sure i am not going to waste my time, even with a dvr. #theprisoner
It's like we aren't watching the same series, which is pretty awesome in itself. I can't even begin a detailed rebuttal, so I'll just point out that it wasn't a coincidence that AMC showed the Matrix trilogy the day before, nor that the first numbered person that 6 meets is 93 (who, by the way, strongly resembled Patrick McGoohan, don't you think?).
But that means that the miniseries is filled with aesthetic elements which are very background-specific, in the sense that only those with the right background will understand them, and those without that background may be getting lost. It's like those "occult geometry" paintings from the Renaissance (or the Op-Art movement of the 20th century), which encode huge amounts of information that is not immediately apparent to those who don't understand occult geometry. For those who do understand it, though, simple things like the lead being known as "6" become very significant pieces of information (Google "tiphareth", for one piece of the puzzle), adding to the understanding of what is going on.
That's not to say that it is a bad thing to not understand the work from that perspective. In fact, it may be a weakness of the work as a whole that it loses the uninitiated. Whatever, I like it so far. #theprisoner
@twDarkflame: That's true of the Matrix sequels, insofar as the failures of them go (they were not, I think, complete failures). Given that the imagery in The Prisoner miniseries was not random at all, though, makes me wonder if that direct a comparison is worthwhile. I think that the subject matter is what really ties those works to each other, rather than particular techniques of presenting those themes.
Anyway, not all art needs to be narrative to be successful. It sometimes seems as though audiences have largely lost the ability to follow non-narrative art forms, but that's not a weakness of any particular work. #theprisoner
The idea that the Village is the only thing in existance just doesn't hold up and unless everyone there is in on it and trying to fool 6 then it just couldn't make any sense. How were the vehicles made? Where does the gas come from? Where are the paper mills?
While the "numbering" scheme didn't make all that much sense in the original, in this one it is totally weird (which of course may be intentional). Why is he 6 when other people are 3 or even 4 digit numbers?
Why did 6 wake up with his memories mostly in tact in the middle of the desert instead of in a controlled environment?
Again, it could all be part of the plan but I'm not very confident in their ability to have the depth to have all of these "problems" be on purpose.
I didn't bother watching tonight so if they do anwer any of these I'll have to wait to read about it online #theprisoner
Maybe we'll find out the whole #2 is human thing is just a ploy to get #6 top open up ... them BAM ... lava lamps and giant balloons chasing trucks full of go-go dancers down the streets of Cardiff ... or not. #theprisoner
I agree with the 6 things you talked about. But even with all that, I think "snorefest" is a little harsh. I mildly enjoyed last night's episodes and I'll watch the next two nights as well. I may even go back and watch them again off of my TiVo. But I doubt I'll watch them again after that and I certainly won't buy the DVD until it hits a bargain bin.
Maybe I've just successfully detached this show from the original in all but the most basic premises. #theprisoner
I think one of the bigger problems with this adaptation is that it doesn't grip the viewers. With the original, the mysteries were set up in a way that it made you really want to know what the Village was, why 6 resigned, who number 1 was, etc...In this one I don't find myself caring much about it, and that makes all the difference. #theprisoner
I have nothing invested in this show. I watched about a half hour of tonight's show mostly by accident and figured it for a pass, and never saw the original because I'm not that old (almost, but no). I still have to ask, is it fair reviewing 1/3 of a show? Yeah? OK then.
Stay jaded folks and enjoy the ride on the hate train.
@All_Thumbs: Well, I've seen almost the whole thing. Although I haven't forced myself to watch the last episode yet, because ugh. But also, this is a recap -- we do those here. So I'm actually reviewing the first 2 episodes, which set up the premise. And saying, the way the set up the premise does not work for me.
Anyway, enjoy the love train and say hi to the O'Jays for me. #theprisoner
@Charlie Jane Anders: I know, I know. I always get like this when I see negativity. I've made comments like this many times here nearly since i09 first moved to Gawker. I just want to root for the underdog, even when I don't actually care one bit for said underdog. I love your writing by the way, so never mind me, I'll be over in the corner, thinking about what I've done and trying to restrain my anti-criticism.
Hopefully they'll pull some of it together. Such a cast to work with, it would be a shame if it was that useless. #theprisoner
@All_Thumbs: Fair enough! I didn't mean to snark back -- I'm usually anti-negativity myself, but sometimes it's called for. And yes, the cast is pretty impressive. Including the super-agent from Jericho -- I keep wishing he was playing that character here. #theprisoner
I'm going to say something very unpopular. My father, a die-hard Prisoner fan, had me watch the first couple episodes of the original a couple years ago, and I was bored out of my mind. I never finished the series. So far, I'm finding this version much more interesting. #theprisoner
My six gripes (with apologies if any are addressed below; I'm DVRing tonight's episodes and still trying to avoid potential spoilers):
6) No bicycle--remember that iconic, huge-front-wheeled bicycle? Yeah, it's gone. And replacement logo used on Village property is bland.
5) Rover--totally out of place in the new context. If the reboot wants to bring back an original element, let's try to ground it in something.
4) Flashback--really? Aren't we supposed to be void of anything from Six's previous life, short of the knowledge he resigned?
3) 313: Zzzzzz.
2) Evil government? What evil government?--there's always something to gripe about with the government. Shifting Six's resignation to a corporation is a cop-out.
1) This Village is no "Village"--the original Village was so unique, and this replacement couldn't be more bland. It's an Everytown, U.S.A.--identical houses in rows, devoid of the original wild colors, so spread out it couldn't feel remotely oppressive. What drew me in to the original has left me a little disappointed.
All that said, I'm liking it very much so far :) #theprisoner
I've yet to watch the new version, so bear with me, but surely the end of the cold war could actually be used in explaining why an internationally run village would make more sense now?
Although it was suggested by various characters at times in the original series that the village was an international project, it was equally suggested that the village belonged to just one nation. If we assume that the village in the original series was a tangible place that number 6 was physically transported to (which I`m not entirely convinced of) it would make the village the ideal target for attack by an enemy nation. Even if all of the prisoners couldn`t be extracted, you've got your hands on a nice batch of state secrets in one strike.
Now the cold war has ended, nations could collaborate on a village. Each sends its "troublesome" individuals there and there is joint overwatch of the facility. The village becomes a concentrated melting pot of classified information (which has plot potential in and of itself) but the international oversight ensures that any one nation does not benefit (again, another possible plot point, conflict arising from attempting to circumvent this restriction). I'd even throw in some sort of failsafe mechanism, if x out of y nations agree the village gets nuked, just to rack up the tension a bit.
Or perhaps I`m just overanalysing all this... #theprisoner
11/17/09
Humanizing No. 2, however, I think was the right idea -- because while we might have been able, as a viewing audience, to feel entirely separate from the surveillance society portrayed in the original series, now we are all, to some extent or another, complicit in it. And thus, to see the internal lives of the wardens, as well as the prisoner, is important.
Also, it becomes more critical if you're going to try and play the idea of "There is nothing but the village", because then, unlike the original series, where No. 2 did not need to be divided against himself, here, he clearly is.
#5 -- My first comment to anyone about the show was "My gods, Patrick McGoohan's much butcher than Jim Cavaziel -- then again, McGoohan had creative control."
I think that the notion of Jason Bourne vs. the Village is precisely what the original series was -- McGoohan's character was the superspy. I think, though I may be giving the creators too much credit, that they were trying to make the new No. 6 someone easier for us to identify with in a "Hey, I could be that guy" level, rather than the hero-identification level.
I'm disappointed in the series, so far, but I'm going to keep watching. They just could have done so much better...
11/17/09
The only prisoner remake I was ever excited about was the one that was supposed to star Clive Owen several years ago. I think even McGoohan was cool with the idea, which surprised me.
Sadly, I think you can sum all six of those up under the single massive crime of "Not knowing exactly which direction to go, so attempting to find a middle ground on everything."
Watching these last 4 hours has been like watching a tug of war between one show that wants to remain faithful to the spirit of Patrick McGoohan, and one that wants to be Lost. The end result is a 'good idea one minute, terrible idea the next' trainwreck. #theprisoner
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
11/17/09
But that means that the miniseries is filled with aesthetic elements which are very background-specific, in the sense that only those with the right background will understand them, and those without that background may be getting lost. It's like those "occult geometry" paintings from the Renaissance (or the Op-Art movement of the 20th century), which encode huge amounts of information that is not immediately apparent to those who don't understand occult geometry. For those who do understand it, though, simple things like the lead being known as "6" become very significant pieces of information (Google "tiphareth", for one piece of the puzzle), adding to the understanding of what is going on.
That's not to say that it is a bad thing to not understand the work from that perspective. In fact, it may be a weakness of the work as a whole that it loses the uninitiated. Whatever, I like it so far. #theprisoner
11/17/09
11/17/09
Anyway, not all art needs to be narrative to be successful. It sometimes seems as though audiences have largely lost the ability to follow non-narrative art forms, but that's not a weakness of any particular work. #theprisoner
11/16/09
While the "numbering" scheme didn't make all that much sense in the original, in this one it is totally weird (which of course may be intentional). Why is he 6 when other people are 3 or even 4 digit numbers?
Why did 6 wake up with his memories mostly in tact in the middle of the desert instead of in a controlled environment?
Again, it could all be part of the plan but I'm not very confident in their ability to have the depth to have all of these "problems" be on purpose.
I didn't bother watching tonight so if they do anwer any of these I'll have to wait to read about it online #theprisoner
11/16/09
It's damn near impossible, and if you actually succeed, you may just end up accidentally summoning an Elder God from beyond the Void. #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
Maybe I've just successfully detached this show from the original in all but the most basic premises. #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
Stay jaded folks and enjoy the ride on the hate train.
11/16/09
Anyway, enjoy the love train and say hi to the O'Jays for me. #theprisoner
11/16/09
Hopefully they'll pull some of it together. Such a cast to work with, it would be a shame if it was that useless. #theprisoner
11/16/09
11/16/09
11/16/09
6) No bicycle--remember that iconic, huge-front-wheeled bicycle? Yeah, it's gone. And replacement logo used on Village property is bland.
5) Rover--totally out of place in the new context. If the reboot wants to bring back an original element, let's try to ground it in something.
4) Flashback--really? Aren't we supposed to be void of anything from Six's previous life, short of the knowledge he resigned?
3) 313: Zzzzzz.
2) Evil government? What evil government?--there's always something to gripe about with the government. Shifting Six's resignation to a corporation is a cop-out.
1) This Village is no "Village"--the original Village was so unique, and this replacement couldn't be more bland. It's an Everytown, U.S.A.--identical houses in rows, devoid of the original wild colors, so spread out it couldn't feel remotely oppressive. What drew me in to the original has left me a little disappointed.
All that said, I'm liking it very much so far :) #theprisoner
11/16/09
Although it was suggested by various characters at times in the original series that the village was an international project, it was equally suggested that the village belonged to just one nation. If we assume that the village in the original series was a tangible place that number 6 was physically transported to (which I`m not entirely convinced of) it would make the village the ideal target for attack by an enemy nation. Even if all of the prisoners couldn`t be extracted, you've got your hands on a nice batch of state secrets in one strike.
Now the cold war has ended, nations could collaborate on a village. Each sends its "troublesome" individuals there and there is joint overwatch of the facility. The village becomes a concentrated melting pot of classified information (which has plot potential in and of itself) but the international oversight ensures that any one nation does not benefit (again, another possible plot point, conflict arising from attempting to circumvent this restriction). I'd even throw in some sort of failsafe mechanism, if x out of y nations agree the village gets nuked, just to rack up the tension a bit.
Or perhaps I`m just overanalysing all this... #theprisoner