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What If A Show Shouldn't Be A Show?

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bonniegrrl
03/05/09

In reply to What If A Show Shouldn't Be A Show?
I love this show. And I'll watch til the end.

Sometimes I wonder if the show would be getting this much criticism if it wasn't created by Whedon. I think thanks to Buffy, Angel and Firefly we're spoiled. REALLY spoiled. And that's hard to top. Fans are picky, haters will always hate Joss, and everyone else in between can't be bothered.

It's sad really. This show would have been great if it was given half the chance it deserved instead of being judged against a really harsh standard that really doesn't exist.

There's a lot of pure crap on TV, and this isn't it.
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Cozmic
02/28/09

In reply to What If A Show Shouldn't Be A Show?
I move that you stop reporting on this show. It's not even science fictional. It's about as SciFi, as Chuck, which is to say, it's not SF at all. It has one impossible element: erasing brains and downloading new personalities, and then they go and do a different cop procedural every hour. And then they do nothing else with it, where's the political or cultural commentary? Is dollhouse more science fictional than CSI? CSI (a terrible show BTW) has one element of SF, super-science-powered investigative technologies, that allow them to do a cop procedural drama every week. So, if you're going to cover this show, maybe you ought to start covering CSI too.
I would put forward that these shows' one element of SF is actually an element of fantasy. And since you don't cover fantasy here, you might as well drop the dollhouse coverage. It's really not Whedon's best work, it's more terrible than Buffy (and I hated Buffy). It's one thing to be a fan of the man that brought us Firefly, but you don't need to follow everything he puts his name on; you know Glen Larson did some terrible shows before and after the original BSG, somehow, I doubt the original BSG-shippers followed him like lemmings to Manimal or BJ and the Bear. Face it, it's over, Dollhouse is destined to do well in DVD-land, and maybe you'll get a decent movie out of it.
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Charlie Jane Anders
02/28/09

@Cozmic: Yeah we should probably stop covering BSG too. After all, it's just political wrangling and drama, even if it happens to be on a spaceship. It's not *really* science fiction.
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TrueCrime
02/28/09

In reply to What If A Show Shouldn't Be A Show?
Hmm. My problem with Dollhouse, so far, reflects my problem with Whedon and his contemporaries like Tim Minear. Whedon is great at creating characters in fully-realized fantasy worlds, ones where vampires, werewolves and space cowboys follow their own sets of rules. He's great at allegory, exposing the ugly truths of reality through his fantasy settings. But when his fantasy world has to operate in the real world, he falls down.

Let's face it, the Dollhouse couldn't exist in the real world for a number of reasons -- cost, demand, feasibility, profile. How does that kind of operation exist in a world with a video camera on every street corner, in every bank, on every light pole? What happens when an "active" leaves DNA at the scene of a crime, or fingerprints? What if one of them gets arrested by a local police precinct or small town police department somewhere? Agent Ballard wouldn't be the only one to realize something is fishy.

Tim Minear had similar problems when he tried to do a police procedural with The Inside. The show was able to explore some fascinating themes, but it became very clear very quickly that neither he nor the other writers knew enough about law enforcement procedure to make it a remotely believable procedural.

Buffy and Angel operated in a different world, a shadow world connected to our own largely through metaphor. A high school on top of a hell-mouth, sure, that can work. A demonic law firm, why not?

But Dollhouse is trying to function, largely, in or reality, and that's what makes it difficult to swallow.
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Overdark
02/28/09

@TrueCrime: We may have security cameras on every street corner, in ATMs, in convenience stores, and banks, but there is no great link connecting them all together. Those tapes are only reviewed if there is a reason to review them. And what good would DNA be if the person who left it was not on file anywhere?
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TrueCrime
02/28/09

@Overdark: That's just one example, though, of what an operation like the Dollhouse would have to contend with Look at how many times someone has posted a video on YouTube that proves a the official line from a police department is actually a lie. These engagements Echo has gone on haven't exactly been quiet, low-profile affairs. A dead park ranger raises suspicions. So does a dead multi-millionaire. So does a room full of kidnapper corpses, especially if one of them is a school teacher. People have families, friends, co-workers, business partners, bosses. How long until a photo of that mysterious woman the dead person was last seen with surfaces somewhere, and someone else recognizes her as the girl partying at a club, and someone else recognizes her as the girl standing next to the rock diva. Then that video on the light pole might get reviewed, and not necessarily by a corrupt police officer who can delete the video before anyone notices it.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
02/28/09

@TrueCrime: *nods in agreement* You've crystallized what I was vaguely thinking. In our world, Echo would eventually show up on "America's Most Wanted" (on FOX!)
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Charax
02/28/09

In reply to What If A Show Shouldn't Be A Show?
I pointed out Echo's tendency to go squiffy on missions in the pilot episode, where it happens twice on a single assignment. they really need to cut back on the flashes.
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dnwilliams
02/28/09

@Charax:

i think that's a problem because it stand-alone eps, a procedural type sci-fi show, they're going to contantly repeat themselves because every episode is someone's first

i thought from the pilot - this should be a movie, nothing else. what's astounding is that this'll go on for longer than firefly i think, which had soooooo much potential it hurts just thinking about it!

the other way that dollhouse could work and really satisfy is to have a cut-off point like lost and galactica, with josh wheaton knowing what story beats he wants to hit for the end of each season...he's doubtless thought about the larger story in great depth, but viewers will suffer if it's unnaturally prolonged, and you'll end up with a mess of a show like smallville.
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Grey_Area
02/28/09

@David Nathan Williams: JOSH WHEATON ROOLZ 4EVA!!!!
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ShyamaliJibroni
02/28/09

In reply to What If A Show Shouldn't Be A Show?
I had high hopes for this show for obvious nerdie reasons, but its really bad... Remind me of Alias. The story itself is stupid, why do we need a Doll? Why do such powerfull mens need a Doll? It just does not hold together
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Ghost_in_the_Machine
02/28/09

@ShyamaliJibroni: Why do we need a Doll? Think back to the first episode. The perfect companion for a weekend who won't remember (and exploit/blackmail you over) what happened. I'd buy that for a million dollars.
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Grey_Area
02/28/09

@Ghost_in_the_Machine: But isn't the fee paid for an active doll probably as much as any blackmail?
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Ghost_in_the_Machine
02/28/09

@Grey_Area: But it's the principle. You're buying your ultimate fantasy, not paying off someone to stay quiet. The kind of person that would use the Dollhouse doesn't want messy complications afterward.

I guess I'm the only around here willing to admit I'd be a client if I could afford it.
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Grey_Area
02/28/09

@Ghost_in_the_Machine: Still not convinced that this is a viable business model, but am willing to continue watching this show.
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