Would Kirby really care? OMAC was just filler at the end of his time with DC, used to fulfill his contractual obligations after the cancellation of his New Gods series. #batmanthebraveandthebold
Can someone tell me when this show is on? Friday nights, I assume? I've already seen the Music Meister ep on youtube, but I'd like to watch it again, cause I was so impressed with it. #batmanthebraveandthebold
Yes, the ghost of Jack Kirby is happy that Time-Warner stockholders he's never met are fattening their portfolios by recycling his dreams. #batmanthebraveandthebold
It may be silly on my end, but perhaps having more interesting and relevant female characters might help?
Batman Beyond? Don't get me started.
The Batman had the Ellen Yin, a confident and dedicated police woman who was eager to show Batman she was as capable of fighting crime as he was, but she was quickly written off the show when Gordon came into the picture. Batgirl was a very nice approach by having her be Batman's side kick instead of Robin, but than Robin came in and put her in the corner. Than came the Justice League episodes. Not only did it not feature Wonder Woman, it didn't have ANY female DC character. No Big Barda, no Black Canary, nothing.
Batman, Brave and Bold? Everyone BUT Wonder Woman, again. Every female character from DC is pretty much limited to a one shot episode with lots and lots of male characters following up. looks to be just about the same old male centered fest with no end in site.
@Jeyl: Not fair omitting JLU, as that clearly has a huge and significant female population in roles other than damsel in distress or one shot #batmanthebraveandthebold
@Jeyl: Batman Beyond had Max who was effectively his Robin/Alfred and essential to Terry's operation. She also got her own episode later on. Plus there's Melanie/ "10" who was a pretty complicated anti-villain/love interest for Terry ala Catwoman.
Batman: The Animated Series regularly featured Talia, Catwoman, Office Montoya- neither of whom were presented as damsels in distress. Also Batgirl ended up having more episodes as Bat's regular sidekick then Robin during the last 2 seasons (and she also had quite a few appearances in Batman Beyond as the Commissioner of Gotham/ supercop).
Then there's the first Justice League/ which had 2 key female members who were very nuanced and Hawkgirl turned out to have the most complicated character arc throughout.
And Justice League Unlimited introduced a slew of female characters like Huntress, Black Canary, Vixen who were nothing but badasses during their regular appearances.
As for "The Batman" yea, no Wonder Woman for some reason, but Batgirl was Bat's sidekick for a full season before Robin was even introduced.
@Jeyl: Did we even watch the same shows? As BBQ mentioned, strong female characters have been present in the Batman's animated adventures since the 80s. #batmanthebraveandthebold
Well I don't think it's fair not having a series based around Wonder Woman, or any other female lead for that matter. After all, Batman and Superman have had at least five movies, multiple TV shows both springing from live action to animated, and video games. What does Wonder Woman have? A live action 70s show, a spot on JLU (Which mandatorily must have Batman and Superman) and an animated movie (which must also be mandatorily followed by not one, but two Batman/Superman centered movies). #batmanthebraveandthebold
@omgwtflolbbqbye: "but Batgirl was Bat's sidekick for a full season before Robin was even introduced."
That's my issue. They replace/substitute the female characters with male ones. Yin was written out for Gordon, and Batgirl was brushed off the sides for Robin. #batmanthebraveandthebold
@Rocketknight: Sure, for an episode or more. Wonder Woman and every other female character is just JL/sidekick/love interest fodder, and that's if they're lucky.
The original OMAC series is hands down the most insane, pure comics story I've ever read. (Gotta love a character whose mission is to bring peace by beating the holy hell out of anyone who gets in his way -- including entire cities if need be.) Well worth tracking down. Don't know if it's been collected, but the individual issues are pretty cheap.
Doesn't sound like they did him justice with this outing, but I'll withhold judgment until I see it. #batmanthebraveandthebold
for one, mr. kirby's name never appeared on any issue of the amazing spider-man beyond the cover of AF#15. that's it.
just as i believe ditko has rights to creating spider-man, as the primary artist for 41 issues, kirby may have a case with FF or the others he was the chief artist.
ditko, lee and john romita sr. are the creative fathers of spider-man. they laid down the look, the feel, the attitude that have endured over the years.
btw. thank the lord kirby's vision of spider-man wasn't adopted, or he'd be sued for cloning someone else's idea.
@jfpierce: As well as stolen, as there was little to no security on the room where the published art was originally stored, and anyone could walk in and take a souvenir.
@thexpert:
Because DC did right by him and gave him a chunk of change for creating Darkseid. In fact, because he created the New Gods before such agreements came into place, Jeannette Kahn hired him to redesign the character slightly so he could claim the money.
marvels fine print is basically "work for hire" you submit it and it makes it into the final comic you get credit for creating it but you dont own it. so everything except for captain america and bucky and a few others is untouchable. do you deserve a piece of the money hat? of course... if your still alive. do greedy relatives? no i mean come on where were they when marvel filed chapter 11 bankruptcy in the 90s
@zitichamp: Of course. Marvel and DC are both like this, since they're contracting writers to write for them, as opposed to publishing stuff for writers.
One of the reasons that Neil Gaiman said he wasn't going to write another big comic book was because unlike his novels, the comic book companies don't allow the characters he creates to be his own.
That said, publishers like Image (and, to a degree, Dark Horse) publish creator-owned content all the time.
@braak: It's doubtful whether such a contract existed when Kirby first created the characters. The agreement that he had to sign to get the release of his original art (which was longer and more legalistic than the ones for any other artist) tried to get him give up any claim to the characters. This was in the mid-80s.
It didn't, that's why Stan Lee sued the company he's been the continued mouthpiece for, just to get a little compensation for his works. The only way he would see any money for it was to take legal action. It makes more sense for him to sue and recieve something, being alive, even if it looked like money grubbing when it all went down. It does however look much worse on Kirby's family doing this and him not being alive to comment on it himself.
If Kirby at all felt like it was an issue he would have sued himself, he seemed like a guy who didn't take much crap seeing as to how he had no issue with continuing his work with DC.
Stan Lee's said it in interviews time and time again (like he does with every thing else he says, god bless him) back in those days, when Spider-man was created, they were lucky the books went to print at all let alone an idea be excepted. Times were much tougher then for the industry as it was still seen as new, as well as "the enemy" by government and parents (just like video gaming is now), and Comics were much harder to sell period. Even DC, who had been in the game longer, had trouble bringing a lot of ideas to print out of fear that they wouldn't be accepted. All that uncertainty is part of the reason why Creator rights were so overlooked then, no one thought about it because they were too concerned with just trying to get something out at all.
"If Kirby at all felt like it was an issue he would have sued himself, he seemed like a guy who didn't take much crap seeing as to how he had no issue with continuing his work with DC."
He was a very complicated man. No one understood him but his woman (sorry)...
Seriously, they treated him roughly in the mid 80s, when all he really wanted was his original art. He died in 1994, and he was not in the best of health for the decade up to his death. He didn't want to put his wife through a big trial, and I don't blame him.
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
10/18/09
10/17/09
Looking forward to next week! #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/17/09
I could swear that I watched during the last season... #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/17/09
Batman Beyond? Don't get me started.
The Batman had the Ellen Yin, a confident and dedicated police woman who was eager to show Batman she was as capable of fighting crime as he was, but she was quickly written off the show when Gordon came into the picture. Batgirl was a very nice approach by having her be Batman's side kick instead of Robin, but than Robin came in and put her in the corner. Than came the Justice League episodes. Not only did it not feature Wonder Woman, it didn't have ANY female DC character. No Big Barda, no Black Canary, nothing.
Batman, Brave and Bold? Everyone BUT Wonder Woman, again. Every female character from DC is pretty much limited to a one shot episode with lots and lots of male characters following up. looks to be just about the same old male centered fest with no end in site.
This stuff sucks. #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/17/09
10/17/09
Batman: The Animated Series regularly featured Talia, Catwoman, Office Montoya- neither of whom were presented as damsels in distress. Also Batgirl ended up having more episodes as Bat's regular sidekick then Robin during the last 2 seasons (and she also had quite a few appearances in Batman Beyond as the Commissioner of Gotham/ supercop).
Then there's the first Justice League/ which had 2 key female members who were very nuanced and Hawkgirl turned out to have the most complicated character arc throughout.
And Justice League Unlimited introduced a slew of female characters like Huntress, Black Canary, Vixen who were nothing but badasses during their regular appearances.
As for "The Batman" yea, no Wonder Woman for some reason, but Batgirl was Bat's sidekick for a full season before Robin was even introduced.
10/17/09
10/18/09
Well I don't think it's fair not having a series based around Wonder Woman, or any other female lead for that matter. After all, Batman and Superman have had at least five movies, multiple TV shows both springing from live action to animated, and video games. What does Wonder Woman have? A live action 70s show, a spot on JLU (Which mandatorily must have Batman and Superman) and an animated movie (which must also be mandatorily followed by not one, but two Batman/Superman centered movies). #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/18/09
That's my issue. They replace/substitute the female characters with male ones. Yin was written out for Gordon, and Batgirl was brushed off the sides for Robin. #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/18/09
In the end, there will never be a show focused on a female hero. #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/17/09
American CN, needs to stop this game of airing shows MONTHS after all their international stations do. #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/17/09
They better be careful cause that's what ended up killing JLU. #batmanthebraveandthebold
10/17/09
Doesn't sound like they did him justice with this outing, but I'll withhold judgment until I see it. #batmanthebraveandthebold
09/22/09
09/23/09
09/23/09
[kotaku.com]
Then the pain set in.
09/22/09
just as i believe ditko has rights to creating spider-man, as the primary artist for 41 issues, kirby may have a case with FF or the others he was the chief artist.
ditko, lee and john romita sr. are the creative fathers of spider-man. they laid down the look, the feel, the attitude that have endured over the years.
btw. thank the lord kirby's vision of spider-man wasn't adopted, or he'd be sued for cloning someone else's idea.
09/22/09
So, given this, I'd LOVE to see Ditko incorporate Kirby into this...
09/22/09
09/22/09
Lol at Kamandi...
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/23/09
Because DC did right by him and gave him a chunk of change for creating Darkseid. In fact, because he created the New Gods before such agreements came into place, Jeannette Kahn hired him to redesign the character slightly so he could claim the money.
09/22/09
09/22/09
09/22/09
One of the reasons that Neil Gaiman said he wasn't going to write another big comic book was because unlike his novels, the comic book companies don't allow the characters he creates to be his own.
That said, publishers like Image (and, to a degree, Dark Horse) publish creator-owned content all the time.
09/22/09
/anyone not reading Criminal, you need to. It's awesome.
09/23/09
09/25/09
It didn't, that's why Stan Lee sued the company he's been the continued mouthpiece for, just to get a little compensation for his works. The only way he would see any money for it was to take legal action. It makes more sense for him to sue and recieve something, being alive, even if it looked like money grubbing when it all went down. It does however look much worse on Kirby's family doing this and him not being alive to comment on it himself.
If Kirby at all felt like it was an issue he would have sued himself, he seemed like a guy who didn't take much crap seeing as to how he had no issue with continuing his work with DC.
Stan Lee's said it in interviews time and time again (like he does with every thing else he says, god bless him) back in those days, when Spider-man was created, they were lucky the books went to print at all let alone an idea be excepted. Times were much tougher then for the industry as it was still seen as new, as well as "the enemy" by government and parents (just like video gaming is now), and Comics were much harder to sell period. Even DC, who had been in the game longer, had trouble bringing a lot of ideas to print out of fear that they wouldn't be accepted. All that uncertainty is part of the reason why Creator rights were so overlooked then, no one thought about it because they were too concerned with just trying to get something out at all.
09/27/09
"If Kirby at all felt like it was an issue he would have sued himself, he seemed like a guy who didn't take much crap seeing as to how he had no issue with continuing his work with DC."
He was a very complicated man. No one understood him but his woman (sorry)...
Seriously, they treated him roughly in the mid 80s, when all he really wanted was his original art. He died in 1994, and he was not in the best of health for the decade up to his death. He didn't want to put his wife through a big trial, and I don't blame him.