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San Francisco, 6:18 PM
Sat Nov 7
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10/19/09
I think io9 needs an anime-centric sibling. #manga
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/20/09
10/20/09
10/23/09
10/18/09
The pants was a cloth piece imported from United States, before the japan men used the fundoshi (the same piece used for sumo fighters) how underwear until the end of WW2, when was subtitued by the pants and boxers imported by the american ocupation forces. The japanese word for call this underwear piece is Pantsu = Pants, and pantsu is the name for the "show schoolgirls pants" fanservice.
A curious thing is that many japanese clothing fetishes are about western clothing: maid lolis wear classic british maid uniforns, same for scholar uniforns, inspired in german and british XIX military and private schools uniforns, and pantsu.
Other things imported from the states were the baseball and puritanisn... Before western influence Japan culture was more open to sexual representation, in example the japanese samurai code of Bushido have segments dedicated to homosexual relations, and many traditional artistic pieces have explicit sexual themes. But also japan was a very rigid society, how in present day, if you add western sexual puritanisn to a rigid society famous for her self-represion in social relations you ended with weird pixilated censorships and weird fetishes.
The more rigid societies have the most hardcore fetishes: in the britanic victorian age was the sadomasochisn fetishes, and in japan things how bondage, bukkakes and violation fetishes. Pornographic images and fantasies are a reflect of the society that produce these materials, not the main insane fact that makes some people a pervert.
Japanese society is not more sexist than historical western cultures, the difference is that japan is not evolved in some things, bearing to some contradictions how in the woman rights area. Japan have the low divorce rate in the world but also the low natality in developed countrys and high suicide rates, pixilated censorship and social represion in one hand and in the other explicit hardcore products about child abuse and rape are a legal thing.
The japan modernization was based in the example of Imperial England, Germany, and later USA: a very religious country in one hand, and in the other the first porn producer worldwide. Before blame other cultures beguin searching in your own.
Also the anime and manga popularity in Japan is circunscribed to big cities, for the japanese common people otakus are other race of geeks, is not very different than in westerns countries, and inside that the manga with weird explicit sexual themes must be very minoritaty, perhaps you only can find it in some localiced shops in Tokyo dedicated for the most creepy otakus, but after be the japanese manga shops most publicited around the world creating a wrong impresion.
The best or more serious mangas and animes dont have fanservices, you cant find blatand fanservices in Otomo or Miyazaki works.
Only a last word for the 5AMfrenchtoast comments about Evangelion: one of the Evangelion main themes is the obvious freudian symbolisn, and the main freudian works is about the awakening of sexuality in childs, is imposible separate what makes Evangelion a good anime from have "sexualiced 14 years old childs" because an important part of Eva is precisely about that. You cant censor many mangas without destroy or gravely mutilate then, for that cut or changue anything for make a best comercializaton in other countries is a bad thing, and none of these copyright law advocates say a word about that.
In the other hand Evangelion have fanservices, but are few and contained, I cant find offensive the main characters original draws, the most blatantly and offensive images of these characters are from doujinsis and "fans" draws. Anybody can copy the style, create his own perversion and upload to the world, and nobody can stop that. #manga
10/18/09
Also I would like to mention its not what the parents think that really matters. its what the kids want. To a point censorship is pointless, If children want to read manga they will read manga. Look at the 60s. Rock music was linkend to the devil and there were bonfires of beatles albums. now the beatles are considered one of the purest most innocent part of the 60s. and that devil rock music is now used to peddle cellphones to middle american parents. also manga is fairly new to the west in the scope that it is availble. When I was in highschool I was lucky to find magic knight rayearth at the book store, and now there are about 1000 books of manga in every barnes and noble or books a million.
10/19/09
10/18/09
I'm so fucking sick of how "protecting the children" is now a trigger to switch off people's brains and prevent anything that resembles common sense from being an active function within them. #manga
10/18/09
10/19/09
10/18/09
Pornography, Rape and Sex Crimes in Japan
Pornography, rape and the Internet
Even child porn does not lead to acting out:
Study finds no link between child porn and sex abuse
This is NOT intended to defend child porn (involving real children); I am certainly against porn which uses real minors. It is merely to point out that the escalation theory is bogus across the board. #manga
10/18/09
According to the Mayo Clinic of the U.S.A., studies and case reports indicate that 30% to 80% of individuals who viewed child pornography and 76% of individuals who were arrested for Internet child pornography had molested a child,
A study conducted by psychologists at the American Federal Bureau of Prisons has concluded that "many Internet child pornography offenders may be undetected child molesters", finding a slightly higher percentage of molesters among child pornography offenders than the Mayo Clinic study
A study with a sample of 201 adult male child pornography offenders using police databases examined charges or convictions after the index child pornography offense(s). 56% of the sample had a prior criminal record, 24% had prior contact sexual offenses, and 15% had prior child pornography offenses. One-third were concurrently charged with other crimes at the time they were charged for child pornography offenses. 17% of the sample offended again in some way during this time, and 4% committed a new contact sexual offense.
The Japanese have low rape rates, because they live in a nanny state with no privacy. The Japanese police actually keep a file on every citizen, and they update it once a year. If you are taken in for a crime, you can be held and questioned without an attorney for weeks. Almost everyone confesses to the crime they're accused of committing, regardless of whether they actually did it or not. That and their cloistered "you will die for the collective" attitude enforces and environment of conformity.
Add to that their societies oh so progressive ideas about women, that they love rape, and many rapes just aren't reported in Japan. A full 7.2% of Japanese women will admit to being raped in anonymous surveys. That's ten times as many rapes being unreported as reported. Oh, and you've got to love Japanese law.
The definition of rape in Japan is limited to vaginal penetration by a penis, therefore excluding forced oral and anal penetration and penetration by any other object, as well as rape of men. Forced penetration of these kinds is downgraded to indecent assault (see Appendix 1b). These laws have remained basically unchanged apart from a few minor changes since they were promulgated in 1907 (Shiraishi, 2006: 242). This is despite the fact that many Western nations, and also Taiwan, have changed their definitions to include other forms of penetration (Yatagawa, 2003: 28-30); e.g. oral and anal penetration have been included in the British definition of rape since 2003 (see Appendix 4).
[www2.warwick.ac.uk]
The Japanese legal system even recognizes mens rea in the prosecution of rape. In other words, if the shithead who raped the chick can convince the prosecutor that he didn't genuinely intend to do harm, the rape disappears.
This shit keeps happening, because everyone just thinks its funny, and if some chick complains, she's not being a good sport. How many other first world nations do you know of that have separate train cars for women so they won't be fondled. In Japan, if a women invites a man into her home and he forces her to have sex with him, it will almost be impossible for her to get justice, because of course she was asking for it.
This is exactly why I fucking hate Manga: this juvenile tittering attitude towards sex. Perhaps I'm just not being a good sport. Perhaps I don't think the same country that was responsible for the Rape of Nanking should think rape is so fucking funny. I realize I must be a prude. #manga
10/18/09
Rape is often described as an opportunistic crime. It happens when its easy for the person to commit it. Just because these people don't go out of their way to commit a crime of abuse doesn't mean they wouldn't if the situation arises. Rape porn is about sexual fantasy, real rape is about power and control. The people who would actually commit rape has nothing to do with them simply being horny. Such a simple drive could easily be satisfied by some private time. Real rape is about oppressing another person which could not be satisfied with a simple bout of internet porn.
Also, in regards to under reported sex crimes in Japan. You are neglecting to acknowledge the fact that people have very different definitions of what 'rape' actually means. Even here in the U.S. there is much discrepancy if a woman is 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' or 'too drunk to notice. In other countries that don't have tight legislation on the matter, actual sex crimes still slip through the cracks. #manga
10/21/09
That being said, I've read that child porn has virtually no profit because of the nigh impossibility of working out a viable means of distribution. My hunch is that 90% of child porn available on the Net is probably part of a gov't sting, and the rest is distributed between friends without any profit involved.
My reason for bringing it up in the first place was to question the wisdom of gov'ts censoring so-called Lolicon, which seems to me a safe outlet for pedophilic desires. If it doesn't incite acting out, and evidence suggests it doesn't, then you actually create an even more unsafe environment for children by censoring it because you remove the one or two outlets peds have that don't involve real children. #manga
10/21/09
11/06/09
If you're staring at hamburgers all day, then you're a strange chap. The sex drive and the drive for food are not identical. Also, eating hamburgers isn't illegal in the West. This is a ridiculous comparison.
You say that no link has been found between cp and molestation. Bullcrap. Child molestors use cp to desensitize their victims. In countless cases, victims have testified that they were shown cp to convince them to go along with their molestors wishes.
I did NOT say there was no link between child porn and child molestation--obviously there's a link in that the child pornographer filmed or photographed his or her molestation of a child. What I said, backed up by a study that linked, was that child porn does not appear to lead to sexual aggression against children. Get it straight. In terms of these countless cases you claim: the majority child molestation is incestuous and committed by situational molesters, not pedophiles, which means it's flat unlikely that the molester will have child porn lying around. You frankly don't know what you're talking about. #manga
11/06/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/19/09
10/17/09
Disrespectable? So a love story is disrespectable because it involves the same gender, and people into big guys drawn in a vintage style that are not Superman are disrespectable? And what the hell is wrong with a dating sim played in the privacy of the home? Maybe the paragraph was cynical or a joke or a compliment, but it's lost on me...
To me, manga and anime are simply Japan's version of comics and cartoons, and I don't give a shit if I'm reading something banned in Ohio or critically-acclaimed masterpieces, so long as it pleases me aesthetically and I have some fun. I like the angle it gives on a foreign culture, like I'm sure the Japanese may enjoy The Simpsons and its very American angle on life here. I don't care about which country is superior, what market is superior, what manga will enlighten me or cheapen me, because nothing is better than anything else. Nothing has to be. I think the main problem with the divide over the market is that Westerners are hypersensitive about anything and refuse to take things as they are, without saying "This should be" or "This is right and this is wrong" and passing judgement. But then, when much of the entire culture here can't even look themselves in the mirror and accept what is without cringing at the first perverse thought or dark desire, you can't really expect anything to stop being pigeon-holed, can you? #manga
10/17/09
10/19/09
But certain types of anime and manga resist mainstreaming, and for me, this gives them a weird integrity compared to mainstream properties like Naruto and DragonBall. Do you really think that pornographic video games or yaoi (particularly the more lurid and nonconsensual yaoi... it's those aspects which, I think, are much more taboo in America than the same-sex element) are going to become accepted facets of mainstream American pop culture?
Basically, until the day comes that these types of books are mainstreamed (which, who knows, may happen), I will always continue to seek out the weird and "cult" types of manga and anime, the types which resist assimilation. I'm not sure where your own feelings lie, since on the one hand you say that mainstreaming has turned 90% of anime and manga into sanitized crap, and on the other hand you dis anime/manga fans for complaining.
Yes, like everyone else, I like what I like "as long as it pleases me aesthetically and it's fun". But that doesn't mean I'm afraid to break it down and examine it, or call a spade a spade, regarding sexism in manga, for instance.
Anything worth liking is worth deconstructing. Long live overanalysis. ;) #manga
10/16/09
Europeans don't have a lot of sex crimes, and they are also far more liberal about sex than we are. I think the evidence speaks for itself; repression and sexual shaming can lead to unhealthy acting out. This stuff has to come out some way, and if you don't give people pressure valves, then ultimately you're just asking for trouble. #manga
10/16/09
The concept of sexuality is also very screwed up for Asians anyway. (as someone who's lived in Asia and lived with Asians) Non-suggestive nude images are socially acceptable in Japan and such. Like boy genitals shown in main stream manga such as dragon ball. Those ginormous testicles on the Tanuki. Or even bare bottoms on women's stocking packaging and ads. But when it comes to actual mention of say... any contact between a man and a woman. My god they go all out. It's crazy. Even TV shows are so repressed in sexuality that most couples in TV shows go only far as to hug, then maybe kiss (like a peck), then get married. Unlike in say US TV which never shies away from implying two people had sex. It's just so bizarre.
Japan is a horrible example in any case.
10/16/09
And like @Pessimippopotamus said, they're awkwardly repressed in terms of sexuality over there. The media freely expresses it, but the citizens cannot. Plus the lifestyle there can interfere largely with one's sexuality as well. Some people are too busy to do...anything really. (Part of me also wonders if shame would result in underreporting sex crimes.) #manga
10/16/09
Also, Europeans "don't have a lot of sex crimes"? What gives you that idea?
10/17/09
So much of their porn and erotica is centered around domination, and rape. Such erotica is many boys first experience and understanding of sexuality. Do you really think that this will lead to less sexual violence?
Their censorship laws require blurring of genitalia, which seems to lead to making even more twisted and fetishy porn, to compensate for the fact that a big portion of the picture is blocked off. Talk about censorship missing the point, and doing more harm then good. #manga
10/17/09
10/17/09
10/17/09
Personally I don't care for dom/rape porn; I've never found it very appealing. But there is no evidence that porn of any type leads to violence or acting out; scholars are now saying that this theory, which we media folks call the Magic Bullet or Exposure theory, is completely bogus. This applies across the board, to all porn.
Furthermore, there is evidence--and plenty of it--that repression can lead to acting out. Voila.
In terms of Japan's censorship, I do agree that some of it is rather arbitrary. I recall reading that the little conjoined twins on the cover of Van Halen's 'Balance' album was altered so that she was only one child, because the conjoined twins apparently offended the sensibilities of the Japanese. Go figure. #manga
10/17/09
10/17/09
In terms of sex, however, which is naturally cathartic, I would disagree. In fact, I've got ample evidence that the Exposure Theory is simple nonsense, so the idea of exposure to porn leading to escalation and acting out is just flat wrong. Maybe I am overstepping by saying porn is cathartic--I don't think I am. However, there is simply no real evidence for the opposite position either; at worst porn has no real effect in terms of sexual aggression; at best it is cathartic.
I win. :-P #manga
10/17/09
10/17/09
So, when a couple divorces in Japan and custody is given to one parent, and the other parent is legally barred from seeing his children again, that's "a pretty good model for what we should be doing"?
And when half-arsed spousal abuse laws can only prevent physical violence between spouses, and do nothing to prevent a man from forcing or coercing his spouse into having sex, that's "a pretty good model for what we should be doing"?
And when jail sentences for rape are often less harsh than those for theft, that's "a pretty good model for what we should be doing"?
And when Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo Fukuda justified the gang-rape of a Tokyo woman in 2003 by claiming that the woman 'dressed provocatively' and was 'asking for it', that's "a pretty good model for what we should be doing"?
Please. #manga
10/17/09
No offense, but "I know people from Japan" doesn't make you an expert on the matter. I know people from there too. I'm sure a lot of people on this board know people from Japan. So what?
Can you tell me with a straight face that Japan's abundance of rape porn is healthy? That it, what, eases their urge for rape? And not to be crude, but can you honestly tell me that young boys jerking off to women being raped and tortured will lead to them growing up sexually well adjusted, and less sexual violence within their culture?
I'd have to disagree with you on that point. #manga
10/18/09
10/18/09
The numerous informed reponses to your deluded assertion are correct. Unreported rape and sexual assault is always higher in societies where women are not respected by the law and popular culture. Japan is such an extreme example that women have to ride in women-only subway carriages just to avoid getting sexually assaulted on a daily basis. Your comment reminds me of scary gaijins/guailos/laowais in Asia: "This place is great! I can eat/touch/fuck whatever I want! I can get it from a vending machine!" Sure, *somebody* is getting a sexual release and an outlet for freedom... it ain't the Asian woman. #manga
10/18/09
10/18/09
Secondly, crimes--including sex crimes--are underreported everywhere, including the good ol' US of A. Probably much more so here. Taking that into account, I believe Japanese culture is overall far more reflective of anti-repression than repression. But I did say they have some rather bizarre examples of censorship.
Thirdly, the Japanese may have some work to do regarding its treatment of females, but they overwhelmingly adhere to a strict propriety. Honor is important to the Japanese, and that means women and children are to be protected. You obviously know very little about actual Japanese culture, other than some words you picked up from manga fansites. #manga
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
Here's some interesting reading for you.
[www.nytimes.com]
A little snippet:
"Experts say molestation and statutory rape are commonplace in schools across Japan, and that victims rarely come forward. To do so would violate a host of powerful social conventions, said Akiko Kamei, a retired teacher who is the country's only nationally known expert in classroom sexual abuse.
''In Japan there is a rape myth, which says that the victim of a rape is always to blame,'' Ms. Kamei said. ''Moreover, women are told that if you suffer molestation or groping, you have to be ashamed. If you talk about it to anyone else, you are going to be tainted for the rest of your life.''
Beyond that, even when they are identified and caught, molesters rarely receive more than a slap on the wrist."
And then below is a limited selection from the book Sexual violence and the law in Japan by Catherine Burns
The description: "This book provides a detailed examination of judicial decision-making in Japanese cases involving sexual violence. It describes the culture of "eroticized violence" in Japan, which sees the feminine body as culpable, and the legal system which encourages homogeneity and conformity in decision-making, and shows how the legal constraints confronting women claiming sexual assaults are enormous. It includes analysis of specific case studies, and a discussion of recent moves to address the problem."
[books.google.com]
I think your outlook on sexuality in Japan is sugar coated and naive. I think your vehement defense in the face of such insanity as high school girl panties in vending machines and girls only train cars to prevent them from being groped is the true definition of what it is to be a weeaboo.
Rape porn, and even worse, rape simulation games such as Rapelay, are inexcusable. There is NOTHING good about them. It is a celebration of the worst kind of destruction one can do to a person.
And we haven't even discussed the sexualization of children in Japanese erotica. Hell, even Japanese mainstream entertainment. I love Evangelion, but the three protagonists are 14 years olds, two of whom are girls. And how incredibly sexualized are they? Very. The list of underage, sexual and sexualized protagonists in popular anime is endless. And in the hentai? Tentacle School Girl rape is a cliche, it's so common.
How can you defend this? How can anyone think anything good can come from the celebration of sexual violence and pedophilia?
And don't say "It's just a fantasy."
If your argument is that rape fantasy prevents rape because it satisfies the need for sexual violence, what does that say about the sexual culture that requires it? #manga
10/18/09
I do have to admit that I'm not that well versed with porn studies in general, but masturbation is certainly cathartic when it comes to one sort of drive. However, sex crimes are not generally committed due to an unfulfilled sexual need. It's largely recognized that it's a power and control issue. I very much doubt that film would be a good substitute for people looking for power and control. Here is where one should be concerned about the modeling.
What does this have to do with Japan's reportedly lower sex crime rate? Nothing really. I'd sooner argue that the culture as a whole and the shame imbued in the people would both discourage sex crimes as well as the reporting of such over the possibility that sexually explicit manga and anime give people an outlet. (The prostitution might also be a good argument, especially since that would also fulfill someone's need for power and control over a person.) #manga
10/19/09
10/20/09
Regarding @Starwatcher and this whole thread -- my nonscientific impression from reading tons of manga, and other anecdotal evidence, is that sexism and sexual harassment is much more tolerated in Japan. I mean, come on. It permeates the pop culture, and this must be coming from somewhere. Even if the readers of Young Magazine merely *fantasize* about "accidentally" stumbling into a woman and grabbing her breast, what does it say that this fantasy is popular enough to recur over and over? Basically, @5AMfrenchtoast, I agree with you.
On the other hand, I think it could be argued that there's value in the fact that Japan is more open to depicting sexuality between teenagers. (Note that I said "between" teenagers. I didn't say, "inflicted upon teenagers by predatory adults", which is another grim issue... of course, how do you depict this material at all and make sure that adults can't locate it and get off to it? You can't, and that's life.) The way sexuality is regulated in America, a person growing up 'within the law' would have virtually no exposure to sex or nudity before the age of 18, upon which point they would be DROWNED IN PORN.
This is the model that we somehow think is healthy? A society where people are expected to grow up with no sexual outlet, until suddenly presto, they're unleashed in the world of triple-X websites, DVDs and penis enlargement ads? I discovered anime and manga when I was about 16, and I found the "midpoint sexuality" of shows like Ranma 1/2, Video Girl Ai, etc., to be extremely refreshing, because it was sexual but it was kind of mild and teasing and flirty (and perhaps unintentionally queer, in the case of Ranma 1/2), it wasn't a MEGA PORN ASSAULT like Americans (perhaps American males?) are conditioned to think of as the only alternative to a total chastity belt lockdown.
I may have revealed more about myself than about anime and manga in this reply, but I do think that our society's lack of a 'gray area' between juvenile asexuality and adult super-saturated sexuality is a flaw in our culture. #manga
10/21/09
My understanding is that this is mostly a myth that continues to be perpetuated far and wide. Most sex crimes are, indeed, about sex. Why this myth persists so widely is beyond me. This really just comes down to common sense I think. Why don't women rape or abuse those weaker than themselves more often? Rape is an overwhelmingly male crime, and it has to do with their biology. It's an act of desperation, yes, but not about control, or at least not only about control. Look at the real science and not at what social workers and advocates say.
10/21/09
Child Sexuality #manga
10/21/09
10/23/09
Regardless, the nonconsensual & voyeuristic sexuality found in manga & anime can legitimately alarm even people who are in favor of a more open sexual culture. #manga
10/16/09
10/16/09
You're absolutely right about why Americans read manga though: it's all about the fact that they're Japanese. In my case, things that I can't stand in American media (like romantic comedy) are altered just enough by virtue of their production in a foreign language that I find them interesting and entertaining. I don't see the Japanese version as dumb, because they're different enough that they challenge me. They may be silly, stupid trash to a smart Japanese native reader, but to a foreigner they're a fascinating portal into the differences between our cultural assumptions and the variations possible in the language of art.
That said... I would not allow a kid of mine to read some of the manga I've read. I read similar stuff as a child, but I know how difficult a time I had comprehending some of the themes in manga and I would definitely limit a kid's exposure to those themes until they had a solid sense of self and ethics.
On a "hidden hazards" side note, I tried switching from reading scanlations to reading a western online comic too quickly yesterday, and forgot to swap my reading left to right /right to left. I was very confused for a few pages. :) #manga
10/19/09
Actually, for me, it's all about the fact that it's a good story. Let's face it- a lot of the manga out there is not based on Japanese society. Two of my favorites have absolutely nothing to do with Japan- they just combine awesome artwork with a great storyline, which would appeal to me whether or not they were American, Japanese, or what have you.
I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but let's try not to pigeonhole people who read manga. That's like trying to say that someone listens to Brit-pop purely because it's British- maybe they just like the sound. #manga
10/20/09
Although, when I said "because they're Japanese" I didn't mean "because they're about Japan/set in Japan/have Japanese characters". I meant the more subtle distinction that they are not told by an American author; that there's a difference between stories told by someone raised in American society and stories told by someone raised in a Japanese (or Korean, or Chinese) society. The differences are subtle, but even a western story told about western characters in a western setting will often have a slightly different feel when told by someone raised with a different set of cultural mores and aesthetic values. (although - as you said - not always.)
And that's part of the appeal of manga and anime to a lot of people - we're getting something different from the western norm, something that stretches our minds just a little even when almost every other aspect of the story is familiar. But - as you said, while it's true for some, it's not true for all. There are some people who simply want more stories with a particular theme, and manga and anime are the largest source for stories when they run out of easily-accessable western stuff. #manga
10/21/09
I suppose that's one of the finest things to come from globalization and the Internet: we are introduced to so much mind-stretching information daily that we are almost forced to acclimate to these new ideas and understand how we fit into the bigger global picture.
Which is why it's so awesome that teachers are now including manga and comics as part of their classroom reading material. It's not required reading, but it's available and hopefully it'll stretch some minds beyond the boundaries they're accustomed to.
Forgive the rambling. History/sociology/mythological studies major on a very close-to-her heart subject. #manga
10/22/09
You're a history/soc/mythology major? Seriously? That sounds like an amazing combination. I'm just starting my associate's with a slight bent towards history, so you're probably well ahead of me on the degree track.
Re globalization: I tend to think the planet is small enough that we need a global perspective in everything we do; and I tend to think certain countries with a strong science fiction background like the US and Japan are ahead of the curve on that bent, since sci-fi is all about making you think in terms beyond your own borders, about how things are connected. What worries me are the cultures which are benefiting from globalization in terms of technology who don't have the backgrounds in connected consequences to draw upon. #manga
10/16/09
10/16/09
It saddens me that violence is acceptable but nudity is considered filth. Are your art students even allowed to do nude studies in your Colleges and Universities? My daughter and I were watching a cartoon and they had pixelated the drawings of Michelangelo's David. Seriously.
One of the things that I enjoy about Manga and Anime are the long story arcs. They always leave you wanting more. #manga
10/16/09
10/16/09
They don't do it because it's funny, they do it for the readers. Panty shots make boys horny, horny boys buy manga. BOYS. Okay, you've got a Dragonball up there of a nude boy - nude boys are funny. But girls? Sex objects - unless it's a boy who looks like a girl (Ranma 1/2), then it's funny especially when the female characters react.
This attitude towards nudity in manga has been going on for decades in Japan, and it probably isn't going to change. But that problem stems from the lack of Japanese censorship, and a tradition of appealing to men - rape games were also legal there up until recently. (See Kotaku's [kotaku.com] )
"As Naruto and Bleach creep into the mainstream, the truly hardcore fans are the ones who keep manga disrespectable-the female fans reading yaoi guy-on-guy pornography, the (shudder) guys who play galge (girl games, aka dating simulations), the retro freaks reading "gar" macho-man manga of the kind that stopped being popular with Fist of the North Star in the 1980s."
Are you being sarcastic here? What about girl on girl mangas, or the sick incest mangas? Woot, mom on son! Gonna get me some of my brother's ass! (Sarcastic)
It's not just the images that folks can object to, it's the stories themselves! What about the "Harem" genre? Young boys surrounded by no less than 3 "hot" females (usually underage lolita types), all of them servile young things. How about just about every hentai manga that treats women like they're brainless twats? For God's sake - read Futari Ecchi ([mangahut.com] ). It's a classic - designed to educate the young reader on pleasing a man. And maybe a woman. But the woman in it is focused on pleasing her husband - I've heard it say that it's "okay" because it's what's done in Japan, that's traditional.
Bull-SHIT.
These panty shots and the nudity are not needed to tell the story. They're needed to pull in readers and plop them down with a box of tissues. #manga
10/16/09
The thing about American perspective is that a lot of them seem to share the same sort of notion as you. They immediately jump to some sort of extreme. I know my mother has seen a few issues of Newtype hanging around my room and would think that it's all about sex. Partly because yes, it had a curvy drawing of a woman on the cover, but also because reports of video stores haphazardly letting underage children rent extremely explicit hentai. A lot of people just make the association that all anime is sex, when the American culture isn't any better. They frown upon children seeing such things, but I'll watch TV and see that stupid Levis ad where this couple have sex in someone else's apartment.
But looking back, my first paragraph probably just re-enforces your last statement. It still doesn't mean they should be so harshly judged. Sure, the Dragonball manga shouldn't have been where it was, but it's nothing to get up in arms about. Just know how to sort them. #manga
10/16/09
10/18/09
It just all comes back to me as "sex sells". It's lazy storytelling in my opinion, but I accept that others don't see it that way. #manga