Just got finished reading the post where everyone complains about the marketing for The Fourth Kind, now we're all mad at the marketing for this film too? These are commercials we're talking about here still, right? I know they do play a role in the way people consume media to an extent, but it really has nothing to do with the thing itself. The people who make the two -- the film etc and the marketing -- often have competing goals, don't interact, don't share the same artistic mindset etc. Since when did this become sci fi Adbusters over here? #jennifersbody
In any case, it's more than a little disgenuous to talk about how this movie was sold, considering that Io9 cheerfully played up the sexy aspects of the movie.
The movies that have been surprise successes this year - District 9, Zombieland, Paranormal Activity, even Where The Wild Things Are - have one thing in common: pitch-perfect trailers. I agree that the material for jennifer's Body did not make me want to see it. But I don't know if selling it as Heathers with gore would have been any better. You can't make a cult movie on purpose, #jennifersbody
@Wookie1972: You know, this movie SHOULD have appealed to women. It is, in part, a revenge fantasy. But I wasn't getting that from the advertising. It should have appealed the way Heathers appealed. #jennifersbody
@tammygarrison: I guess my point about Heathers was that it's very, very difficult to promote a movie as a cult movie, if not impossible. #jennifersbody
If Megan Fox wasn't such a bad actress the movie would have been much better, but I would hardly call it smart. It was barely a horror movie, every time she killed a boy it would move away, the movie should have been PG-13 for not having nearly enough blood and guts. #jennifersbody
"Jennifer's Body" is not smart. Not at all. It's plot is contrived and boring, the character interactions are bland, and many scenes are random and uninteresting. It's not weird either, in fact it's all pretty much stuff we've seen in one way or another combined with "Diablo Cody's" annoying way of writing banter.
Jennifer's Body is a failure because it is a bad movie, no amount of proper marketing would have changed that. #jennifersbody
@DRaGZ: It was a smart B-movie. Had a subtext and used it well. I'm not saying it's a masterpiece of cinema, but it was better than most horror junk like Fourth Kind. #jennifersbody
@Annalee Newitz: Maybe the key word here is "B-movie." B-movies by definition are not designed to be blockbuster hits. I wonder if the fact that a few recent B-movies have broken through and become mainstream hits has obscured the fact that most movies of this type aren't huge moneymakers and unfairly raised our expectations.
Reading this post made me think of the 2003 movie May, one of my favorite examples of what one might call "alt-horror." (JB seems to fit in that category as well.) A well-made, well-acted, smart little horror flick (with subtext!) that grossed...$150,000. By that measure, a $16m take doesn't seem so awful.
I just don't know that JB necessarily should have done better than it did. I mean, any more so than any number of awesome movies that don't become sleeper hits. From what I'm seeing, more than a few people who like the kind of movie JB is, didn't like JB, so maybe it was a perfectly OK movie that just didn't achieve the critical mass of word of mouth or reviews to become a mainstream hit or cult darling. As another commenter pointed out, you can't manufacture a cult movie. #jennifersbody
@Annalee Newitz: At least Fourth Kind was a much better concept (albeit still not that original and falling more than flat on its face due to terrible execution).
B-Movies don't become cult hits because they have good concepts or good plots. It's all about the moments and the execution, which Jennifer's Body just couldn't deliver.
@Wookie1972: Go for it, although I only did it because I don't like pen names that were made for catching attention, which is contrary to the actual purpose of pen names which were to hide or obscure identities.
I think "Diablo Cody" CAN write good films, if a bit annoying due to dialogue, but, like any starting writer, it needs to have at least some personal investment, whether it's based on things you've done or you truly believe in the concept because you love it. This is why "Juno" worked, because it was probably at least partially drawn from the writer's own experiences. "Jennifer's Body"'s writing just reeked of "okay, I just crapped this out, who cares how it flows or if a scene is necessary or not, here ya go" attitude.
I'm sorry, but I call into question the entire concept of this and the previous article. It claimed that more women than men watch horror movies. Now, I have asked several women who are hardcore moviegoers in general and genre film fans in particular if they were going to see Paranormal Activity, a relatively mild (in terms of gore, anyway) horror movie. To a person they said they "don't like that kind of movie." I realize that this is an unscientific survey that I'm doing, but it seems to me that the female audience for horror movies is being greatly exagerrated here. #jennifersbody
@Wookie1972: I think the point was that the movie itself was more of a woman's tale.. Not necessarily that more women watch horror movies... #jennifersbody
@burlybax: I was referring to the previous article ("did stupid marketing kill Jennifer's Body?"), and, actually, it said that very thing, It based it on statistics about five movies and some anecdotal evidence, and was not very convincing, IMHO. #jennifersbody
@Wookie1972: I read the same article, and I think the facts about women and scary movies was being used to back up her point that the movie was aimed at women, and therefore poorly marketed. No offense, but I would take her statistics over the asked some friends method.. May be exaggerated, but still, I think her intentions were to point out that the movie is more relatable for women.. That was just my take.. #jennifersbody
@Wookie1972: The statistics I referenced were from an analysis of gender and actual box office receipts, which was reported in Entertainment Weekly (I provided a link to that article in my post). #jennifersbody
@Annalee Newitz: Again, however, the article only cites three movies (The Grudge, The Ring 2, and Exorcism of Emily Rose) with female leads, and provides only anecdotal evidence about the others. It hardly warrants the idea that horror is a genre where the audeince is predominately female. #jennifersbody
"If the marketing droids at Fox had just been smart enough to realize that the movie was aimed at women - not unlike most horror movies"
I still say that's questionable. And I freely admit that my own survey was unscientific. But the fact is that I've known more women to reject horror movies out of hand, and more men to be the first in line when the latest Saw comes out. (Heck, one girl who has a serious love of zombies said that she didn't like horror movies). I think the idea that somehow it's a no-brainer that horror is a genre with a mostly female audience is, well, pushing it. #jennifersbody
@Wookie1972: I just want to say that when I ask my own female friends about horror movies, all but one love the genre, and two of them actually prefer the horror genre over any other.
Does that mean my anecdotal, non-evidence based experiences nullify your own anecdotal, non-evidence based experiences?
Horray for mindlessly "proving" your point by asking your friends as opposed to using statistical samples and surveys. I think I'll trust actual data over your anecdotal rantings. #jennifersbody
@Mann42: And again, I point out, the original article referred to a sample of exactly FOUR FILMS. Three of which had female leads (I dunno, does Jessica Biel count for Texas Chainsaw Massacre). The original article could not exactly be called statistically valid. In any case, the article was about how it was a surprise that women watch horror movies. It seems churlish to say "stupid marketers, everybody knows more women watch horror movies." #jennifersbody
@Shaftoe: As it seems for a lot of people, which is why I admitted it was unscientific. My point was that the somehow common knowledge that more women watch horror movies seems to be... less than common.
I'm not completely surprised if it's true. I work at a bookstore and the readership of true crime books is definitely more female. My point was that 1) the statistics quoted in the article seemed a little inconclusive and 2) in any case, it's hardly common knowledge. Maybe marketing people sh0uld know better, but i don't know for sure. #jennifersbody
I dont get the complaint here. Fox is in the movie correct? And she's one of the main characters? And a monster? And at some point in a cheerleading uniform? And I'm guessing at some point in the movie, noted as the 'sexy' chick?
There's that old poster of Star Wars, with Luke standing on a little hill, muscular chest exposed, holding his light saber He-Man-style over his head, while Leia poses near his leg incredibly sexy looking with a slit in her dress all the way up to her waistline. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this never happened in Star Wars. Yet it's considered one of the most iconic images of all time in the franchise.
So Fox here, being a monster in a cheerleader outfit is technically MORE representative of this movie than one of the most iconic Star Wars images is to that movie.
I guess it would be better if the DVD cover was just a black and white text dissertation on the awkwardness of friendship between high school girls? #jennifersbody
@u_nick: The problem isn't the sexual content in and of itself, its that the sexy pic is misrepresenting what the movie is about. Which is girls bitching at each other and fighting about who needs who, essentially. #jennifersbody
@inabook: Exactly. I like sexy pinups as much as the next person. But the movie isn't about Megan Fox being a pinup. It's about her being raped and murdered, and then returning from the dead to eat people. Not very sexy. #jennifersbody
@cylon_conspiracy: Indeed, but nowadays you have to be somewhat (not very) subtle in order to use them to sell anything that's not boob related, because a) feminists would be all over you and b) information is more readily available and people know it when that happens. #jennifersbody
@inabook: Which doesn't disagree at all with what the OP said. Unless you think the sexy StarWars poster is really really accurately representing A New Hope... #jennifersbody
@Annalee Newitz: If they either featured Amanda Seyfried on the cover (arguably the real main character, although I can't really think of a shot in the film where she looks heroic after slaying the monster), or showed Megan Fox in full long-toothed monster mode, I think the cover would've been better, but it may also have to do with Megan Fox not wanting to be depicted in that pose on hundreds of DVD covers everywhere. I really wish they'd gone with more subtle object-based marketing, like Teeth did with the every rose has its thorn marketing ads, rather than continuing the nationwide trend of objectifying Megan Fox. #jennifersbody
Perils of gwendolyn was awesome when I was a teenager. And I do believe this is the second time Tawny Kitaen has indirectly surfaced today. #jennifersbody
@Dr Emilio Lizardo: Same here. Parents didn't have a clue when they rented it, and then went bowling and left my brother and I to watch it. WOW. #jennifersbody
It's called "Maybe we can still get those suckers with this marketing the way we didn't get them with theatrical marketing. See, the 'unrated' is going to make them think there's sex!"
And I maintain it failed because it failed as a genre picture, not because of bad marketing. Teeth followed the genre rules better than this did. Not that a film budgeted at $16M that made $16M is that much of a failure.
11/08/09
So, a documentary, then? #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/04/09
The movies that have been surprise successes this year - District 9, Zombieland, Paranormal Activity, even Where The Wild Things Are - have one thing in common: pitch-perfect trailers. I agree that the material for jennifer's Body did not make me want to see it. But I don't know if selling it as Heathers with gore would have been any better. You can't make a cult movie on purpose, #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/05/09
11/04/09
Pretty sure I enjoyed it more than I'd like this movie, though. #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/04/09
"Jennifer's Body" is not smart. Not at all. It's plot is contrived and boring, the character interactions are bland, and many scenes are random and uninteresting. It's not weird either, in fact it's all pretty much stuff we've seen in one way or another combined with "Diablo Cody's" annoying way of writing banter.
Jennifer's Body is a failure because it is a bad movie, no amount of proper marketing would have changed that. #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/05/09
Reading this post made me think of the 2003 movie May, one of my favorite examples of what one might call "alt-horror." (JB seems to fit in that category as well.) A well-made, well-acted, smart little horror flick (with subtext!) that grossed...$150,000. By that measure, a $16m take doesn't seem so awful.
I just don't know that JB necessarily should have done better than it did. I mean, any more so than any number of awesome movies that don't become sleeper hits. From what I'm seeing, more than a few people who like the kind of movie JB is, didn't like JB, so maybe it was a perfectly OK movie that just didn't achieve the critical mass of word of mouth or reviews to become a mainstream hit or cult darling. As another commenter pointed out, you can't manufacture a cult movie. #jennifersbody
11/05/09
B-Movies don't become cult hits because they have good concepts or good plots. It's all about the moments and the execution, which Jennifer's Body just couldn't deliver.
@Wookie1972: Go for it, although I only did it because I don't like pen names that were made for catching attention, which is contrary to the actual purpose of pen names which were to hide or obscure identities.
I think "Diablo Cody" CAN write good films, if a bit annoying due to dialogue, but, like any starting writer, it needs to have at least some personal investment, whether it's based on things you've done or you truly believe in the concept because you love it. This is why "Juno" worked, because it was probably at least partially drawn from the writer's own experiences. "Jennifer's Body"'s writing just reeked of "okay, I just crapped this out, who cares how it flows or if a scene is necessary or not, here ya go" attitude.
11/04/09
11/04/09
Does the name of the day end in "y"? #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
"If the marketing droids at Fox had just been smart enough to realize that the movie was aimed at women - not unlike most horror movies"
I still say that's questionable. And I freely admit that my own survey was unscientific. But the fact is that I've known more women to reject horror movies out of hand, and more men to be the first in line when the latest Saw comes out. (Heck, one girl who has a serious love of zombies said that she didn't like horror movies). I think the idea that somehow it's a no-brainer that horror is a genre with a mostly female audience is, well, pushing it. #jennifersbody
11/04/09
Does that mean my anecdotal, non-evidence based experiences nullify your own anecdotal, non-evidence based experiences?
Horray for mindlessly "proving" your point by asking your friends as opposed to using statistical samples and surveys. I think I'll trust actual data over your anecdotal rantings. #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/04/09
I'm not completely surprised if it's true. I work at a bookstore and the readership of true crime books is definitely more female. My point was that 1) the statistics quoted in the article seemed a little inconclusive and 2) in any case, it's hardly common knowledge. Maybe marketing people sh0uld know better, but i don't know for sure. #jennifersbody
11/04/09
This may be my new favorite phrase.
11/04/09
Flesh gordon #jennifersbody
11/04/09
There's that old poster of Star Wars, with Luke standing on a little hill, muscular chest exposed, holding his light saber He-Man-style over his head, while Leia poses near his leg incredibly sexy looking with a slit in her dress all the way up to her waistline. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this never happened in Star Wars. Yet it's considered one of the most iconic images of all time in the franchise.
So Fox here, being a monster in a cheerleader outfit is technically MORE representative of this movie than one of the most iconic Star Wars images is to that movie.
I guess it would be better if the DVD cover was just a black and white text dissertation on the awkwardness of friendship between high school girls? #jennifersbody
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/04/09
11/05/09
11/04/09
11/05/09
11/04/09
And I maintain it failed because it failed as a genre picture, not because of bad marketing. Teeth followed the genre rules better than this did. Not that a film budgeted at $16M that made $16M is that much of a failure.
11/04/09
11/04/09
I too am shocked to discover gambling in this establishment. #jennifersbody