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San Francisco, 3:00 PM
Tue Dec 8
28 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson

    Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt

    Alternate Histories Of Objects For Sale On eBay

    Is Young Adult Fiction the "Slum" of Scifi?

    Guide to Recent U.S. Generations, Including Elusive Anti-Anti-Utopians
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    Image of Bill-Lee Bill-Lee
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    Frank Herbert's trip to Oregon where he witnessed the USDA'S attempts to use poverty grass to stop the movement of sand dunes occurred sometime in 1957. Silent Spring was published in 1962. The first installment of what became Dune was published in 1963. If Herbert read Silent Spring at all, it was when he was already finished with Dune and had already submitted it to publishers. There were other ecologists in the world in the 1950s and 1960s besides Rachel Carson and other events in the world that influenced Herbert other than the publication of Silent Spring. One of major influence was the increasing power of just 12 nations over the world's oil supply. The Spacing Guild's monopoly over space travel seems to predict the founding of OPEC which occurred just 2 years later.
     Reply
    Bill-Lee was starred Bill-Lee was unstarred
    Image of Bill-Lee Bill-Lee
    10/09/09

    @Bill-Lee: Now if we were talking about Herbert's later novel, The Green Brain, Glenn might have an argument. However, The Green Brain was published 1966 and ecology/environmentalism were more widely accepted by then. Lovelock was formulating what would become the Gaia hypothesis by then and The Green Brain fits into the zeitgeist of the time.
     Reply
    Bill-Lee was starred Bill-Lee was unstarred
    Image of Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    If "Silent Spring" came out after "Dune" was already finished (which it would have to have been, if Analog had bought it and was printing it, given lead times), how could it be an influence? It's impossible without time travel!

    More likely both Carson and Herbert were reacting to the growing ideas of ecology at that time.
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of Null.Aleph Null.Aleph
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    I've seen nothing from what I've read of Frank Herbert including interviews to suggest he was influenced at all by Carlson. Maybe I'm mistaken, but frankly this Glenn fella's whole little piece was off.

    There is a much better breakdown of 'Dune' here: [moongadget.com]
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment Null.Aleph was starred Null.Aleph was unstarred
    Image of guspaz guspaz
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    Carson? Ugh. Carson was a quack whose pseudoscience caused a misguided public outcry that is now responsible for millions of deaths. In many ways, she's responsible for more deaths than nearly all of history's most notorious figures.

    While DDT was never banned for disease control usage, the public current against it had an impact on disease control as well. The worst part of all this is that DDT *WAS* abused for agricultural use, spraying massive quantities far greater than is used for disease control. This causes resistance in mosquitoes, and renders DDT less effective or ineffective for the very tasks at which it SHOULD be used for; saving lives, not crops.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment guspaz was starred guspaz was unstarred
    Image of Jonny_eh Jonny_eh
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    Apparently Rachel Carson's theory for why smoking was harmful was that tobacco was sprayed with pesticides.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment Jonny_eh was starred Jonny_eh was unstarred
    Image of ahmacrom ahmacrom
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    "GET OUT OF MY ECOLOGICAL MIND!"
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment ahmacrom was starred ahmacrom was unstarred
    Image of J_Frank_Parnell J_Frank_Parnell
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    Alot of Herbert's works (yes, he wrote books besides Dune) deal with environmental themes. Worth checkin' out.
     Reply
    J_Frank_Parnell was starred J_Frank_Parnell was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    10/09/09

    @J_Frank_Parnell: you lie!
     Reply
    tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of gorehound gorehound
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    I ove the Dune series.Especially the first 3 books but I have read them all even the newer ones.The newer ones done after Herbert's death aren't as good but I still had to read them.
    On another note I am not looking forward to another movie version.Dune is a very complex story and at least that scifi miniseries split the book into 3 movies but what will we end up with if a new version doesnot do this spliting into multiple films.It will be shit that is what.
     Reply
    gorehound was starred gorehound was unstarred
    Image of MrFlake MrFlake
    10/09/09

    "The newer ones done after Herbert's death aren't as good"

    You win the "Understatement of the Decade" award.

    They were atrocious. I'd never actually felt like punching a book until I read those.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment Edited by MrFlake at 10/09/09 1:42 PM MrFlake was starred MrFlake was unstarred
    Image of OW-Holmes:Bringer of Fear OW-Holmes:Bringer of Fear
    10/09/09

    @MrFlake: My life goal is to meet Brian Herbert and not punch him in the face.

    Now you're probably thinking wouldn't you want to punch him in the face? I do. I really really do. But punching him would be like pulling my hand from the box.

    And I am not an animal.
     Reply
    OW-Holmes:Bringer of Fear was starred OW-Holmes:Bringer of Fear was unstarred
    Image of MrFlake MrFlake
    10/09/09

    I like the way you think.
     Reply
    MrFlake was starred MrFlake was unstarred
    Image of ManchuCandidate ManchuCandidate
    10/09/09

    In reply to Frank Herbert's Greatest Influence Was Rachel Carson
    Spice = DDT?
     Reply
    ManchuCandidate was starred ManchuCandidate was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    10/09/09

    @ManchuCandidate: he who controls the spice... has critically endangered bird populations?
     Reply
    Edited by tetracycloide at 10/09/09 1:40 PM tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of Hamslicer Hamslicer
    09/15/09

    In reply to Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt
    I think every auction picture should have a penny for scale. Even a penny auction.
     Reply
    Hamslicer was starred Hamslicer was unstarred
    Image of Joshua Glenn Joshua Glenn
    09/14/09

    In reply to Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt
    Space Beach!
     Reply
    Joshua Glenn was starred Joshua Glenn was unstarred
    Image of Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
    09/14/09

    In reply to Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt
    I want to go to there. In its heyday. Space Beach!
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of zmook zmook
    09/14/09

    In reply to Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt
    Would it help your experiment to know that I had to really work at talking myself out of bidding on that? I mean, what would I do with it? But I want it.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment zmook was starred zmook was unstarred
    Image of Hamslicer Hamslicer
    09/14/09

    In reply to Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt
    Some guys put a "prayer box" on ebay. The 3D rendering had scripture written all over it. All kinds of "opinion" claims/statements regarding it's powers went on at length in the description when you sat in the box and prayed.

    In the end, one their friends had the winning bid and they actually had to make it. I wish I still had the pic of the winner sitting in the box, thumbs up. Funny stuff.
     Reply
    Hamslicer was starred Hamslicer was unstarred
    Image of zegota zegota
    09/14/09

    In reply to Buy a Genuine Coconut Cup from the Asteroid Belt
    This experiment seems flawed, in that you're giving away the whole thing from the beginning. I'm sure that's required, for legal reasons, but you're going to have a lot of people buying at higher-than-normal costs just to participate in the project.

    That said, like the story :-)
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz promoted this comment zegota was starred zegota was unstarred
    Image of Annalee Newitz Annalee Newitz
    09/14/09

    @zegota: It's not a real experiment - I said above that it's non-scientific - it's just a fun writing project.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz was starred Annalee Newitz was unstarred
    Image of Hamslicer Hamslicer
    09/14/09

    @zegota: YOUR KIDDING?!? You mean this isn't REALLY from the asteroid belt? Thanks, you've saved me a lot of money!
     Reply
    Hamslicer was starred Hamslicer was unstarred
    Image of Annalee Newitz Annalee Newitz
    09/14/09

    @Hamslicer: No, no, no. It really IS from the asteroid belt. It's just that the experiment of selling it on eBay is fake.
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz was starred Annalee Newitz was unstarred
    Image of zegota zegota
    09/22/09

    @Hamslicer: -_- 'giving it away' wasn't referring to saying that the story was fake, it was the reveal of the story project.
     Reply
    zegota was starred zegota was unstarred
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