karlschroeder

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Karl Schroeder Talks About Futurism vs. Science Fiction
Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
Metatropolis Is The Best Kind Of Urban Renewal
Dream-Eaters and Three-Sexed Aliens in the Five Greatest World-Building Novels

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goldfarb
10/16/09

In reply to Karl Schroeder Talks About Futurism vs. Science Fiction
cool interview, thanks!
I just want to point out that the Ontario College of Art and Design is one of the ugliest buildings in Toronto
[www.urbanthink.ca] #karlschroeder
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TheDarkWayne
10/15/09

In reply to Karl Schroeder Talks About Futurism vs. Science Fiction
What the hell's a smart phone or a smart mob, and how are they together capable of taking down laser powered robot suits? By sending a text real fast? #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/15/09

@TheDarkWayne: A smart phone is a phone with internet and social networking capability (facebook, twitter, etc.). Using one, you can easily set up something like a facebook group and invite people to your protests, demonstrations, and other events.

That's a smart-mob; not just a crowd of people, but a crowd of people with 21st century communications technology supporting them.

The power of these devices was demonstrated in Iran during the recent protests--do you remember the woman who was killed by police who pretty much became a martyr for her cause around the world; all because of smart-phones and twitter?

Not only could crowds of civilians coordinate their movements as easily as police, they could also broadcast events around the world and win the PR war.
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Edited by Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon at 10/15/09 5:26 PM

Makidian
10/15/09

@Anekanta: They could probably do it better and fasterthan the police. It seems like it would become a potential problem, it only takes one person to inevitably get hundreds, if not more, people to get down wth something and outflank the police. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/15/09

@Makidian: Yes--and they have the fact that they are civilians on their side. All the fancy weapons in the world you still can't use on a crowd of civilians... especially if that crowd is going to take videos of you doing it and put them up on YouTube. #karlschroeder
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Pope John Peeps II
10/16/09

@Anekanta: Which would be great, except that the protests and all free communication were quickly and completely crushed by the actions of the state and the related religious militias.

So....
reality = 1
futurism pipe dream = 0 #karlschroeder
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goldfarb
10/16/09

@Pope John Peeps II: exactly...the mob might be able to communicate and organize quickly using the new tech - but it's the people who control the infrastructure these technologies are built on who will always have the ultimate power...the government can simply turn Twitter off - or better yet, use it themselves to disrupt and mis-inform #karlschroeder
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Asen
10/16/09

@Pope John Peeps II: I know Goldfarb beat me to it, but let me second that: Exactly.

What, does nobody think that the state won't adopt the same "smart mob" techniques? Read some Richard Clarke; read some Machiavelli. There are always two sides to the fence, as Ben Franklin said, and the idea that plucky young rebels always beat the big, oppressive empire is, well... The stuff of hokey science fiction. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/16/09

@Asen: I wasn't trying to suggest that plucky young rebels will always beat the big oppressive empire...

I was only addressing the question of what a smartmob is. They're certainly not some sort of magic beat-all tactic, but they can sure make life difficult for a military outfit--especially if that outfit is reluctant to use lethal force against them. #karlschroeder
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Asen
10/16/09

@Anekanta: Don't get me wrong. I'd be interested in seeing what happens when smart mob tactics are employed by partisans, but I don't think they make much difference, because they don't have much to check an experienced military force used to urban warfare and willing to level buildings. And there's always the matter of the state employing similar tactics. The smart mob is an intriguing concept, but we ought to think of the smart pacifier, too. They're much more likely to emerge in the longterm. Few weapons of liberation fail to be taken up as weapons of domination.
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Edited by Asen at 10/16/09 5:02 PM Asen was starred Asen was unstarred

Makidian
10/15/09

In reply to Karl Schroeder Talks About Futurism vs. Science Fiction
I can't believe nobody else is biting on this one. I want to go back to school for strategic foresight now, and while I am there I want to study philosophy. This guy just sounds incredibly awesome. #karlschroeder
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SpammerOvTheGods
10/15/09

@Makidian: it would be a cool class to teach, as well.

#@! #karlschroeder
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Pope John Peeps II
10/16/09

@Makidian: You'll want to wait until you're lucky enough to be an established author and have enough resources to go back to school. Especially for a not-very-well known boutique program like this.

Almost nobody in Canada has ever heard of this program. OCAD is known for certain things, they produce brilliant designers and artists, and that's really about it. #karlschroeder
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Makidian
10/16/09

@Pope John Peeps II: I could never go to school in Ontario just a bit of dreaming on my part at least for strategic foresight, philosophy is for real though. It would be almost impossible for me to go to school in Ontario since I am raising three kids, in Ohio. But the thought is nice. #karlschroeder
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FunkyJ
10/15/09

In reply to Karl Schroeder Talks About Futurism vs. Science Fiction
Wait!

A 4-star general in the Canadian Army needs to have military planning "dumbed down" to understand it?

I know which country I'm going to plan to invade next... #karlschroeder
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Makidian
10/15/09

@FunkyJ: It's Canada, I mean can we really expect much more than that from their "Military" #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/15/09

@Makidian: Actually, what we lack in equipment and size, we easily make up for in training.

It's not a question of the general's intelligence, as it is a matter of making it useful to him; because he's an expert in a different field and may not understand a long-winded, jargon filled explanation. Officers in the Canadian military are expected to have IQ scores in the high percentiles--I'm not sure of the exact number but it's in the 90+ % range. #karlschroeder
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SpammerOvTheGods
10/15/09

@FunkyJ: kick 'em in the fud and take their BC Bud!

#@! #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/15/09

@SpammerOvTheGods: Alas, I don't think our military is quite that cool. #karlschroeder
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Makidian
10/15/09

@Anekanta: I forgot to /sarcasm that, it was totally tonuge-in-cheek. I love Canada I just think it's hilarious when people bust on the country as a whole. I am sure there is a four star general in the US of A that needs things dumbed down for them.

Did you see Generation Kill on HBO, not only was it awesome but it was a pretty fair indicator of the idiots we have in higher ranks. I got a 98 on my ASVAB, and when I was walking around listening to the Army guys talk about their scores almost all of them were mid to high 60's. It's pathetic really. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/15/09

@Makidian: Heheh, Okay... I wasn't sure. Truth be told, we Canadians rag on our own military quite a bit, but I think we generally underestimate them.

I've wanted to check out Generation Kill, but I've only recently had access to HBO, so I haven't had a chance yet.

I'm sure all militaries do the best they can. The unfortunate fact is that large organizations of any kind tend to breed a kind of functional stupidity as people get too used to procedure and a chain of command that absolves them of responsibility.

Another factor is I think a lot of people end up in the military, especially the army, because they don't have a lot of other options. People with more options are less likely to join. #karlschroeder
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FunkyJ
10/15/09

@FunkyJ: Hey! What happened to my Star Commentator status!? #karlschroeder
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Grey_Area
10/15/09

@Anekanta: The Canadian military has a proud tradition of being badasses and we should never forget their contributions and sacrifices. In WWI the Germans were terrified by the Canadians and called your guys the "Stormtroopers" and adopted that name in the next kerfluffle. A Canuck artillaryman shot down Baron Von Richtoven, the Red Baron, but I hear he apologized profusely afterwards. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/15/09

@Grey_Area: Yes indeed! We're a fierce yet humble people! It's the winter that does it--we learn to tough it out in the cold, but we're too busy shivering to brag much.
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Edited by Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon at 10/15/09 9:08 PM

Makidian
10/15/09

@Anekanta: Generation Kill is awesome, I was hoping for a followup series since it ended very early into the actual Iraq War, but you should definitely check it out, rent it or wait for it to be on HBO OnDemand.

I never really got why Canadians get ragged on so much, as Grey_Area pointed out you guys were pretty badass during the two World Wars. I still have yet to see as much as I want, I have never been to Toronto and that's the closest part to me in Ohio. I love going to Niagra Falls, I always have a blast and I can't wait to take my kids. I went to Quebec several years ago and it was incredible in Montreal, the closest I have ever been to a European country which is really kind of sad. Other than that I have to visit Nova Scotia and Vancouver, as I have hear Nova Scotia is beautiful in the spring and summer months and Vancouver for their....affinity for the color green lol. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/16/09

@Makidian: I'll definitely check out G.K. when I get the chance.

As for Canada-US relations... well, sibling rivalry perhaps? Also, Canada is sort of an easy target--we don't really fire back openly. But Canadians have been known to look down on aspects of American culture, too, though mostly I think that's the tension between liberals and conservatives on both sides of the border, rather than Canadians and Americans, per se.

Definitely visit Toronto if you get a chance--it's an incredibly multicultural city; something like 160+ languages spoken there. I used to live there, and took pride in the fact that I could learn Chinese martial arts, Indian philosophy, Turkish religion, and Irish Gaelic--and stop for Carribean food afterward; all within half a kilometre of my house in Little Italy. I miss it.

Montreal I've only been to once, but loved it--unfortunately it's also the closest I've ever been to a European country. Besides that, I haven't visited parts of Canada beyond Ontario since I was a kid. But I have friends on either coast I should go see. Indeed, I hear good things about Vancouver's gardens and other... er, aromatic plantlife.

I've been to the States several times. I met a lot of great people in Massachussetts, and had a blast at GDC in San Jose one year. I had a chance to visit San Francisco on that trip and really dug that city. I also love the southwest; Arizona in particular, and Southern California, is incredibly beautiful--although next time I have to stay longer. #karlschroeder
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Makidian
10/16/09

@Anekanta: I haven't been to Cali in ages but it is the long term goal of my wife and I to move out there should the proper elements fall into place. I have only been to LA, Hollywood and Anaheim, and only for a week but I loved every second of every day I was there.

I will eventually make it to the Vancouver Gardens, as soon as I can get enough time to at least visit my cousin in Seattle, she's been at me and my wife to get out there for ages and then drive up to BC. I definitely want to get back up to Montreal at some point the scene there was off the hook, I got to here some of my favorite DJ's spin at real clubs instead of Rave's lol. The architecture was something I had never been exposed to in person and it blew me away. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/16/09

@Makidian: Yeah--I definitely want to get back to Montreal at some point. Go in the summer if you can, it's kind of miserable in winter, plus in the summer there's the Jazz & Comedy festivals and various other events. #karlschroeder
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Makidian
10/16/09

@Anekanta: I think me and the family are going to trak it up to Toronto for a vacation it sounds great. #karlschroeder
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/19/09

@Makidian: Best of luck! It's a beautiful city. If you come up in the summer, there are quite a few street festivals--Taste of Little Italy, Taste of the Danforth, Beaches Jazz Festival, Caribana, and so on. #karlschroeder
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mordicai
10/08/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
You mean critique of democracy...why call it crowd sourcing?

I really liked this one, & it opened up possibilities for the series. "Queen of Candesce" is still my favorite though.
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Annalee Newitz
10/08/09

@mordicai: Because it really was about crowdsourcing, especially the part about how everybody had to vote on which newspaper articles were true. That's going a lot farther than any democracy I know.

That said, I think it was also a critique of certain kinds of democracy.
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skeksis
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
I'm reading one of Karl Schroeder's older books right now, Permanence. I started looking out for his stuff after Sun of Suns, and have enjoyed every one of them so far.
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Michael_GR
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
Whoa there! there are some MAJOR spoilers in this review -things that should NOT be known to anyone who has not yet read the book.
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Grey_Area
10/07/09

@Michael_GR: Yes, because now you know the entire contents of this book and the previous installments. Have you seen Titanic yet? The boat sinks.
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Michael_GR
10/08/09

@Grey_Area: I'm saying this as someone who has already read the book (and loved it! Schroeder is my cerrent favorite author) and I know exactly when and how it's revealed that Virga is a network of worlds. The mere fact that Virga isn't the only world in orbit around Vega and that it is connected to other worlds is a huge reveal at the end of the fourth installment and is directly linked to the mystery that the entire plot hinges on.
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Alessar
10/08/09

@Michael_GR: I think that reference to a network of atmosphere bubbles should just plain be pulled out of the review, it's just too big of a spoiler for the series overall and yet doesn't have too much impact on this book's story until the finale. Just describe Virga alone...
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Annalee Newitz
10/08/09

@Michael_GR: I thought this was revealed in the very first novel, when we discover that Hayden is having an affair with a woman from outside Virga. We've known all along that Virga was part of a network of worlds.
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Annalee Newitz
10/08/09

@Alessar: I see where you are coming from, but respectfully disagree. I think it's obvious from the very first novel that Virga is one of many worlds.
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Alessar
10/15/09

@Annalee Newitz: I thought that the woman in the first book was implied to be from Artificial Nature-run Earth so there being a local network? Huge shock. #thesunlesscountries
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Gemini2
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
I really enjoyed Pirate Sun. A friend gave it to me one day. I loved the science behind the story line.
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Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
Reminds me of the Anime series Last Exile.
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bililoquy
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
Sun of Suns was absolutely stellar, a rare one-sitting read for me. I may have to skip ahead to The Sunless Countries, because it sounds like exactly my sort of thing.
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Rasselas
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
I started the first Virga book, but lost interest a few chapters in. I didn't dislike it enough to condemn it with a snide wisecrack, as I often would; it just wasn't to my taste.
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TemporalSword
10/07/09

In reply to Crowdsourcing Leads to Madness In "The Sunless Countries"
Steampunk in space, huh?
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Grey_Area
10/07/09

@TemporalSword: Not at all. Its about as steampunk as Mad Max or Larry Niven's Smoke Ring.
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Annalee Newitz
10/07/09

@Grey_Area: Agreed.
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Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
03/13/09

In reply to Metatropolis Is The Best Kind Of Urban Renewal
I read the title as "Meatopolis", then as "Meatropolis" and wondered if it was a dystopian future (drink!) where people were a food source, or a utopian one where the buildings were made out of bacon.
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ZanipoloLebron
03/13/09

In reply to Metatropolis Is The Best Kind Of Urban Renewal
I dont know - I'm kinda holding out for the Australian GIGACITY Project. I think a Million Square Miles of City in the Australian Desert supporting a Billion Population in a Hightech City is going to be freaking awesome...

ALICE SPRINGS GIGACITY
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Grey_Area
03/13/09

@ZanipoloLebron: Sounds cool but what will it do for water?
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jaylake
03/13/09

In reply to Metatropolis Is The Best Kind Of Urban Renewal
It was a lot of fun to write, I have to say. Thanks for the blog-bling!
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crashedpc - Haifisch
03/13/09

@jaylake: *points* AN AUTHOR SIGHTING!
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Charlie Jane Anders
03/13/09

@jaylake: Thanks for writing such a kick-ass story and for collaborating on such a great book!
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mewlink64
03/13/09

@jaylake: I'm listening to it now, but I'm not too big on anything in audiobook form. I'll get a better feel when I buy the book.
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jaylake
03/13/09

@mewlink64: The funny thing is it was written for audio, so to me it actually seems to flow slightly less well in print.
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jaylake
03/13/09

@Charlie Jane Anders: Thanks! It was the first thing I wrote after I'd recovered enough from cancer surgery to manage a keyboard. That means a lot to me.
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