kim stanley robinson

posts about #kimstanleyrobinson more →
Kim Stanley Robinson Takes Us Back Out Into The Solar System, 300 Years From Now
Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
Have You Read The Best Books Of 2009 According To Amazon.Com?
Science Fiction Vs. The Literary Establishment, Round One Million
The Science Fiction Writer Who Received Fan Mail From Virginia Woolf
10 Ways To Rescue The Climate, According To Science Fiction
An "Alternate History For Newbies" Primer Makes A Stab At Creating An Allohistory Canon
Kim Stanley Robinson's Favorite Mars Books
See Kim Stanley Robinson and Annalee Newitz at UC Santa Cruz This Weekend
Download Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars For Free!

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

Lassus
11/24/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson Takes Us Back Out Into The Solar System, 300 Years From Now
LAUGHTER

Redqueenmeg beat me to the happy dance, dammit! I'm so unhappy!

However, I am also very happy about this.
Reply

Lassus was starred Lassus was unstarred

redqueenmeg
11/24/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson Takes Us Back Out Into The Solar System, 300 Years From Now
*happydance*

*gonna go read all the KSR in her library now*
Reply

redqueenmeg was starred redqueenmeg was unstarred

reddingofish
11/24/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson Takes Us Back Out Into The Solar System, 300 Years From Now
The way we are going now I don't see too much space travel even in 300 years. P.K. Dick had it right in "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?". The only people that are going to leave the planet are the rich ones. Leaving the poor and middle class to fend for themselves.
Reply

reddingofish was starred reddingofish was unstarred

EdificeComplex
11/24/09

@reddingofish: If it means that the people who run Wall Street get to go off and ruin their own planet with "financial devices" then more power to 'em.
Reply

EdificeComplex was starred EdificeComplex was unstarred

VisibleHand
11/25/09

@EdificeComplex: I'm conifdent they will build capitalist utopias, with no gods or kings, only man. After all, nothing could possibly go wrong with that, right?
Reply

VisibleHand was starred VisibleHand was unstarred

EdificeComplex
11/24/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson Takes Us Back Out Into The Solar System, 300 Years From Now
In addition to science fiction I'm a huge fan of historical fiction. Put them both together and it's a win in my book. "Gallileo's Dream" sounds like it fits perfectly into that category. The only problem I see is that Amazon lists it as being released on Dec. 29. Why isn't this a pre-Christmas release publishers?
Reply

EdificeComplex was starred EdificeComplex was unstarred

Byronotron
11/24/09

@EdificeComplex: ask for an amazon giftcard and get it for that long journey through to the next decade.
Reply

Byronotron was starred Byronotron was unstarred

daveNYC
11/24/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson Takes Us Back Out Into The Solar System, 300 Years From Now
"By all accounts, it's a fascinating look at the man who may have been the first real scientist."

At the very least you've pissed of a large number of Greeks.
Reply

daveNYC was starred daveNYC was unstarred

RavenNemain
11/24/09

@daveNYC: Pfft - what did they ever discover except for the pythagorean theorem, displacement, the circumference of the Earth, the fact that the Earth is round and rotates on an axis, an understanding of planetary motion, heliocentricity, Euclidian geometry... Seriously, what science did the Ancient Greeks ever do?
Reply

Dresan promoted this comment RavenNemain was starred RavenNemain was unstarred

Klebert L. Hall
11/10/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
Of course it's easier to write about a dystopia than a utopia. Dystopias are eminently believable, while trying to make a utopia seem like there's a chance in hell of it actually working is nigh-impossible.
-Kle. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Klebert L. Hall was starred Klebert L. Hall was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
11/10/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
The funny thing about the Thomas More's Utopia is that the whole thing isn't what people think it is. It's very subtly satirical in places, and sometimes menacing. More's Utopia wasn't meant to be prescrptively perfect, but was meant to illustrate certain things about the world at large and human nature. Like Plato's Republic, or Dante's Paradise.

A great utopian fiction also covers all of the problems in society. But intellectually, subtly, subversively. It's not prescriptive except in the way that it teaches you how to look at the subtle currents in society as a whole, and examine the meanings in larger pictures.

Robinson is right that it's harder to do, but he doesn't fully get at why it's so much harder. Which is fair. He's an author, and author's don't study literature. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Pope John Peeps II was starred

RolandCWagner
11/10/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
Needless to say that I agree with you. Even worlds just tending towards utopia are a heavy work, though imho easier to build/use than "real" utopias because they still have to evolve.
25 years ago, two French writers, Michel Jeury & Philippe Curval, worked on an anthology of utopias short stories which was never published. But having talked with both writers, having read some of the stories written for this project, having myself written one, I'd like to say that the main idea, or feeling, that rose from this aborted project was that utopia could only be movement towards (unatainable ?) perfection, not stillness frozen in an eternal perfection. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Kaila Hale-Stern approved this comment RolandCWagner was starred RolandCWagner was unstarred

Dr Emilio Lizardo
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
KSR has been getting a little preachy lately but I really like his stuff in general. he seems to be trying to right about how we got to the utopia in all his big works (Mars, 40/50/60, Rice and Salt) and that can certainly be an interesting story. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Dr Emilio Lizardo was starred

Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
This is one of the best things I've read in ages. He's right, and he said it well.

+1, Kim. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
11/09/09

@Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H.: Absolutely--thanks for this Kim! #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

strideo
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
Most science fiction I've read doesn't necessarily take place in a dystopia or a utopia but in some form of society that is pretty much somewhere in between.

Also there are science fiction stories where one civilization has spread out to include many cities, planets, or colonies where some are virtually utopias while others are very much dystopian factory worlds.

Also, a lot of stories I've read about utopian societies often suggest that there is something terribly wrong with the utopia at it's secret inner core or the author portrays a world where somehow people are no longer responsible for their own well being while still somehow retaining a great degree of personal freedom and growth while having almost no external challenges to overcome whatsoever. I think it'd be great if humanity could be so greatly self motivated but I imagine in such a world we'd look a lot like the fat people in WALL·E .
Reply

Edited by strideo at 11/09/09 3:29 PM strideo was starred strideo was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
11/10/09

@strideo: Also, a lot of stories I've read about utopian societies often suggest that there is something terribly wrong with the utopia at it's secret inner core

I'm not trying to be snide here, but those are actually dystopian stories. They illustrate the abject failure of a utopian project. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Pope John Peeps II was starred

strideo
11/10/09

@Pope John Peeps II: You could argue that, yes.

Another thing occurred to me though; not everyone's utopia would be the same now would it? What may seem like a blissful society to some may be felt as stifling and oppressive to others. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

strideo was starred strideo was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
11/10/09

@strideo: Well okay... I don't want to get into very elementary things about utopian fiction because we'll be here all day.

But in broad terms, Utopian fiction is a type of fiction in which although the project seems largely successful, underlying tensions and currents in the story and in the people involved reveal difficulties, fragilities, even subtle tyrannies in the structure. No Utopia is perfect. As a classical scholar More knew this well when he named his book. In Greek u topos means both "perfect place" and "no place". It's still a "good" place, but where you find difficulties in that "goodness" is where thought is provoked.

A dystopian book is the chronicle of the total failure of that kind project. An outright tyranny, or a miserable population, or one chemically controlled, etc. etc. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Pope John Peeps II was starred

LittleDragon
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
Color me intrigued. I like my dystopian stories but am always looking for some one to prove that utopias can be as interesting. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

LittleDragon was starred LittleDragon was unstarred

Daveinva
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
While I count myself as a huge fan of the Mars Trilogy, the unfortunate truth is that every time KSR decided to write about his "utopia" in the novels, it descended into unreadable pseudo-eco-socialist blathering nonsense that detracted from what was otherwise a fantastic yarn.

I won't take my sci-fi from my economists if I can avoid taking economics from my sci-fi authors. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Daveinva was starred Daveinva was unstarred

Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
11/09/09

@Daveinva: Funny, I had the total opposite reaction. I loved the times when he talked economics and politics--the parts about the struggle to create a utopia--and was bored to tears by the endless textbook-like descriptions of Martian geology and botany. I still have yet to finish Blue Mars as a result.

Don't get me wrong; science is cool, geology is cool, but at the end of the day, rocks are just rocks, and the challenge of creating a better society is much more interesting. #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Daveinva
11/09/09

@Anekanta - Space Hippy!: To each their own. I was a poli sci major, I already had my fill of bad philosophy and econ by the time I read the books, I ate up the science stuff instead.

I mean, come on: SPACE. ELEVATOR. WRAPPING. AROUND. MARS.

And you like the econ???

;-) #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Daveinva was starred Daveinva was unstarred

Anekanta - killed by a cacodemon
11/09/09

@Daveinva: I loved that! That's what I mean though--the falling space elevator and the politics that led up to it was way more interesting than the dry explanations of which species of lichen would be likely to survive on the Martian surface.

It wasn't that I found his political or economic explanations any more interesting. It was more the human interactions involved--the different motivations behind the political and economic discussions--that I found appealing.

Not sure I'm making sense, but...

:D #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

tonytown
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
this post actually made me go 'squeeee'. apparently, it won't be out until Dec 29th, though. i'm going to have to build an advent calender just for that.

' Pacific Edge', part of the 'Three Californias' set, was a really memorable utopian piece. The society in the book had overcome it's quest to consume, and put limits on personal wealth.

I think part of the problem with coming up a Utopian society is making it seem plausible that human beings would ever overcome their inherent selfishness.
Reply

Charlie Jane Anders promoted this comment Edited by tonytown at 11/09/09 3:30 PM tonytown was starred tonytown was unstarred

Lassus
11/09/09

In reply to Kim Stanley Robinson: Dystopian Fiction Is For Slackers
Ohmigod ohmigod ohmigod... A new Robinson book that's actually out in space?

WOOOOHOOOOOO YAY SPACESHIPS #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Lassus was starred Lassus was unstarred

Lassus
11/09/09

@Lassus: Well, I read the summary, so that might be pushing it, but even so, yay! #kimstanleyrobinson
Reply

Lassus was starred Lassus was unstarred

Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

SUBSCRIBE TO io9

Login

Reset Password

Register

Submit Your Comment