@braak: Gee is it likely that an author making a vaguely grandiose and somewhat boneheaded statement designed to provoke a really tiresome "scandal" would have a book out now?
Let me check the magic 8 ball. Oh, "most probably".
Roberts may use unreliable narrators but they are also unlikeable. Halfway through Salt I just wanted all the characters to die, Die, DIE. If that's this hoity-toity post-modernism literature, you can keep it.
If I wanted to know the life stories of horrible as$h*les I'd hang out with real people.
@tetracycloide: yeah, I don't even know how far back that goes. I just know how far back my reading goes.
It's strange because I spent a lot of my graduate work studying actual post-structuralism (which is what post-modernism in literature is really called), and it's a strange thing: a lot of things popularly attributed to post-modernism are actually not really in the classical school of thought, but yet a lot of really old literary devices suddenly became renamed "post-modernism", as if playing on the idea of truth and untruth suddenly became the same thing as playing on the idea of the totality of communication in language.
@Pope John Peeps II: the oldest known manuscript is 14th century but it's widely reguarded as being several hundred years older than that.
i've always felt that art itself was free of movements, that the observations of critics have attributed general tendancies where they can find them to make critical work easier but art itself is entirely seperate. so critics often relabel things as being one movement or another at their own whim because everything they do is all made up anyway.
@tetracycloide: Nah, that's not entirely true. Critical changes in thought happen often and usually slightly ahead of the very vanguard of art. Renaissance art, Englitenment art, Modernism - they were all preceeded by a large and fundamental shift in the world of ideas. And each change has definite and identifiable components.
But in the case of post-modernism, it's so difficult to describe what's part of it and what's not because the identified boundaries of it have become so loose. People want to identify all sorts of things as "post-modern". I'm not really sure why, probably because the liberation in that allows them to explore something they'd prefer to explore instead of whatever it is they're working on? But I'm not sure.
@Mount_Prion(ComicCon anybody?? PM): Ha, I wish. Then I'd be able to pester him at family gatherings for the inside scoop on science fiction publishing. Plus he makes a great mojito.
@Gaambit: I'm reading that right now. It's okay but not great. Have you done The Difference Engine and The Diamond Age yet? Those are sort of the the two biggies most people know. Jay Lake's Mainspring and Escarpment are pretty cool and have more of a mystical bent like Whitechapel Gods as does Mick Farren's Kindling. Tachyon Press' recent anthology is a good place to start. Also look for Michael Stanwick, K. W. Jeter (I'd kill for a copy of his Morlock Nights), and Blaylock.
I feel it is very important for any one who likes this sort of stuff to track down a copy of Warlord of the Air by Michael Moorcock. Sorta the granddaddy of the subgenre.
I like Steampunk stories but cannot abide this "community" it has spawned. I've spoken to some of these costumed creeps, most of them hadn't read any of these books. Just a buncha Drama School Dropouts.
Some elements of the Steampunk community would argue that a 1920's setting makes this "retro-futurism" *shrugs* But then steampunk has been invaded by elitest ***holes
@zenseeker: As has virtually every element of pop culture.
What I hate is that the goths are starting to get into steampunk as well. It's like, no, you people already have one ridiculous obsession, let us keep ours, damn it!
How long before pocketwatches and welding goggles start to get hawked at Hot Topic?
@Smeagol92055: That would mean two things. One, that Hot Topic is marketing at goths again (Its so mainstream emo it hurts) and Two, that Hot Topic would finally carry some cool shit again.
Wow. What a complete and total dick. You're really selling me on your shitty anthology, Lou old buddy. Either that, or you're selling me on punching you once in the flabby gut.
Why the hate? All he said was that he has given up pushing speculative fiction on the small group of people who reflexively reject any whiff of fantasy or futurism. And he points out--rightly I think--that genre distinctions have become so blurred as to make the point moot (the success of crossover writers like Stephenson and Chabon are cases in point).
10/06/09
10/06/09
Let me check the magic 8 ball. Oh, "most probably".
10/06/09
10/06/09
Of course not! Peoples tastes never change.
Hey you kids, turn down that noise!
08/08/09
02/05/09
If I wanted to know the life stories of horrible as$h*les I'd hang out with real people.
02/05/09
The unreliable narrator device is way, way older than post-modernism. Hundreds of years older.
02/05/09
02/05/09
02/05/09
It's strange because I spent a lot of my graduate work studying actual post-structuralism (which is what post-modernism in literature is really called), and it's a strange thing: a lot of things popularly attributed to post-modernism are actually not really in the classical school of thought, but yet a lot of really old literary devices suddenly became renamed "post-modernism", as if playing on the idea of truth and untruth suddenly became the same thing as playing on the idea of the totality of communication in language.
02/05/09
02/05/09
i've always felt that art itself was free of movements, that the observations of critics have attributed general tendancies where they can find them to make critical work easier but art itself is entirely seperate. so critics often relabel things as being one movement or another at their own whim because everything they do is all made up anyway.
02/05/09
02/05/09
But in the case of post-modernism, it's so difficult to describe what's part of it and what's not because the identified boundaries of it have become so loose. People want to identify all sorts of things as "post-modern". I'm not really sure why, probably because the liberation in that allows them to explore something they'd prefer to explore instead of whatever it is they're working on? But I'm not sure.
02/05/09
02/05/09
02/05/09
12/30/08
12/31/08
12/30/08
12/30/08
I feel it is very important for any one who likes this sort of stuff to track down a copy of Warlord of the Air by Michael Moorcock. Sorta the granddaddy of the subgenre.
I like Steampunk stories but cannot abide this "community" it has spawned. I've spoken to some of these costumed creeps, most of them hadn't read any of these books. Just a buncha Drama School Dropouts.
12/30/08
12/30/08
12/30/08
What I hate is that the goths are starting to get into steampunk as well. It's like, no, you people already have one ridiculous obsession, let us keep ours, damn it!
How long before pocketwatches and welding goggles start to get hawked at Hot Topic?
12/30/08
Actually, I'm all for it ^___^
12/30/08
In any case, keep yer grubby mits off my precious steampunk, Hot Topic.
12/30/08
12/30/08
11/13/08
11/13/08
Why the hate? All he said was that he has given up pushing speculative fiction on the small group of people who reflexively reject any whiff of fantasy or futurism. And he points out--rightly I think--that genre distinctions have become so blurred as to make the point moot (the success of crossover writers like Stephenson and Chabon are cases in point).
How does that make him a punch-worthy dick?
11/13/08
11/13/08
11/13/08
Srsly, while I see his point -- he's not going to waste time and energy on the mundanes any more -- I think he picked a bad simile.