All this focus on a "black" president "black" superheroes and dare I say it "affirmative action" we sure do miss the mark on being a nation that is color blind. How can we hold racists accountable for racial bigotry when the non-racists do the same thing in the opposite direction? For a country that strives for equality we should not see a "black" president but rather a "new" president that will hopefully be better than the last. We should see superheroes in comics not by the color of their skin but by their actions and the morals they embody. And jobs should be given not based on fulfilling a quota but rather on the most qualified for the position. Answer me this... How is having the first black president so monumental for this country if he ends up being worse than the last? How does having more black superheroes change the way the superhero is viewed when a superhero is titled as such based on their actions and not the color of their skin? And finally why should a person that may be less qualified for a job be rewarded that job based on the their race when they may be unable perform the duties required to hold such a position? Actions speak louder than color. I would rather see people recognized for what they can and will do rather than on the pigment of their skin. How about this? We do not need a black president but rather a good one (which hopefully we do). We do not need more black superheroes but rather more superheroes that display good/strong morals that can be looked upon as role models for our children. Finally we don't need quotas for hiring but rather the assurance that we are a country of educated and qualified people in the workforce.
Fuck it!!! Will Smith was the shit in Hancock. Movie was pretty dope though I understand a lot of people did not enjoy it. I'm up for more black superheroes!!! :D
"How is having the first black president so monumental for this country if he ends up being worse than the last?"
Because it's about having the option for a person of color to be president. Let me tell you most of the black people I know didn't think Obama would win the presidency. They WANTED him to win but they never believed he'd get it because of the very prominent racism in this country.
Btw America is not colorblind. Not. At. All.
"How does having more black superheroes change the way the superhero is viewed when a superhero is titled as such based on their actions and not the color of their skin?"
Again it doesn't have so much to do with how it's viewed as it does with black people being acknowledged as "people" within the comic world. Having a superhero lineup of all white characters is obviously denying the existence of other ethnicities.
"And finally why should a person that may be less qualified for a job be rewarded that job based on the their race when they may be unable perform the duties required to hold such a position?"
I see this argument against Afirmative Action all the time and it's one small very narrow minded look on the problem as a whole.
Here's the problem:
Jimmy lives is poor black and lives in the ghetto with his single mom who is working three jobs to pay the bills.
Jimmy goes to the neighborhood public inner city school because Jimmy's mom can't afford the nicer private school across town.
Jimmy tries hard in school but doesn't get the same advantages (AP classes safer less stressful school environment more parental attention) that a kid going to the nicer private school gets.
When Jimmy applies for college the college looks at Jimmy's record and sees that although he tries hard he didn't get the same academic oppourtunities that the other kid got in private school.
They accept Jimmy over the other kid because the other kid will definitely find another college.
It's a band aid to a much bigger problem. The real problem is that society stacks the odds so badly against Jimmy that it sets him up to fail. He can break out of it but it is very very difficult. So things like Affirmative Action are introduced to balance the odds. I hate AA because it allows people to use the "reverse racism" argument and keeps people distracted from the REAL racism going on here.
Please understand it's not black people trying to get a free ride. It's black people being subjugated for a long long time and using a band aid to fix a HUGE problem.
@Evlsushi: Your argument/breakdown of the problem doesn't illustrate a problem with race so much as financial/social level. If Jimmy was a poor white kid or a poor latino would it make the reality of being poor and not having as much opportunity any less different?
Um, yeah. That's actually the point of my argument...
Jimmy being a poor is a socio-economic issue that comes from racial subjugation. The two are not mutually exclusive. It sucks but it's more likely, for various reasons, for white kids to go to private schools or better public schools (that exist in richer areas). If Jimmy as poor and white he's still afforded opportunities that black Jimmy doesn't get.
@Evlsushi: Btw, I never said it was color blind, I said that we are told we should be color blind. You missed the point. I know there is all this shit you talked about. My point is that we should be trying to grow past that point that it should not matter the race of the president as long as they are good. It should not matter if there are black superheroes, as long as they portray the morals for a good role model. It should not matter what color a person's skin is when getting a job, as long as they are most qualified of those that applied. "Where all men are treated equal" can not happen when you have people being racist, but you also can not have it when you have other people praising another person because of their color. People should of wanted Obama to be president because he was the better candidate, not because he was black. Not saying that everybody that voted for him did that, but there was obviously those that did. There was also alot of hype about "making history" and the "first black president". These two things should not matter, the only thing that should matter is getting the right person into the presidential seat and hope he/she does better than the last. All you did your rant in justify the drawing of lines between colors. Sure it is there, but we should be striving to destroy those lines, not praise them when the praising seems fit while condoning others when the condoning seems fit.
"My point is that we should be trying to grow past that point that it should not matter the race of the president as long as they are good."
I agree. We should be able to move past this. But we can't until people are willing to accept that there is prejudice in the world and we need to do more than ignore the problem. People always want "equality" to just happen overnight, when it requires work. Very active work.
"These two things should not matter, the only thing that should matter is getting the right person into the presidential seat and hope he/she does better than the last."
Getting the right person into the presidential seat is a top priority, I agree. But, we can't ignore the fact that merely sixty years ago the same man wouldn't even be able to dine in the same restaurant as a white peer. It's a big step in the right direction and we should be proud of that.
"All you did your rant in justify the drawing of lines between colors"
No actually, you asked about Affirmative Action and I just explained it to you. I actually hate the practice, but at least I understand why it's instated. It wasn't a rant, it was an answer to a question. I'm sorry if you feel attacked, it wasn't my intention. I just want to shed some light on why we have huge race problems in America. I get that you want people to be past that, but such a thing takes time. Lots of time. And that's only assuming if everyone wants an equal America (which they do not).
Then there's the problem of people refusing to read really good comics if they have non-white characters -- generally for entirely specious reasons.
I spent the entire run of the recently-canceled Blue Beetle trying to convince a friend who always laments the lack of family-friendly old-fashioned-in-a-good-way comics that Blue Beetle was exactly what he was looking for -- and he wouldn't read it because "they killed off Ted Kord just so they could have a Latino character take his place."
I'm sure there was enough of that "I love Ted Kord now that he's dead [and white]" attitude to have contributed to the death of this pretty much perfect comic book.
Sorry but Mr. Brothers criticisms about the lack of differences between Black characters can apply to pretty much any comic characters. You've got your true blues (Superman Captain America) your dark and moodys (Batman Wolverine) your adventurous wiseacres (Spider-Man Robin) etc. To insist this only happens to Black characters is incorrect. What would be correct would be to say they either come in stereotype (product of the streets) or anti-stereotype (rich and privileged) and nothing in between.
@NotArthurPDragon: How about a rich and privileged person who loses his home and lives on the streets now? Actually I'm sure there's a character or two out there in which that applies. Enlighten me!
Perhaps because Fox may be is say the actual news biz instead of PC idiocy/Fanboy retardism that being 40yrs behind a trivial subject i'll cut them some slack
@Moff: Wuh? Surf the net for more than 30 seconds and porn practically flies at you! I guess if your homepage is set to the Heritage Foundation then that's not gonna happen.
Of course she's an exception. I always noticed that when Marvel used to introduce a black character it was rarely a standalone. For example when Rhodes took over as Iron Man (he was in Secret Wars) and a "new" Captain Marvel joined the Avengers (she too was in SW). They didn't have their own identity; they were almost an afterthought. (How can we refresh this character/name? OOO! Make them black!)
On the flip side how many black villains have there been?
@V.I.N.CENT: It's interesting that Storm was left out. Because in some ways she's one of the best examples of a character "who happens to be black." Her experience and history as a black woman was never ignored but she's been written well enough over time that it wasn't forced/stereotyped/her only unique attribute/etc.
I'm a black person and I have to say to everyone that tries to incorporate "more black people" into anything in which they're involved "Don't force the issue." It really honestly isn't that big of a deal. I for one don't feel left out.
And in the case of comic books too many brain cells are being applied to this. Kids look up to superheroes as people they want to be but only the influence of the adults in their lives makes the race of those heroes an issue. As a kid I ran around all the time with a bedsheet tied around my neck and falling to my back pretending I was Superman. I could've cared less if he were white green or purple... And as far as the older comic book fans it's fantasy. Embrace the stories and creativity and don't pay so much attention to ethnicity. Young adults shouldn't be looking towards comics characters as role-models but towards the honorable men and women in their own lives.
@DaiWalka: I'm trying to figure out how many Asian superheroes there are out there and so far I can only think of Jubilee. Hawt. But headliners? I'm not sure. I prolly haven't been paying attention.
I think they tend to get type cast in the martial artist role (Danny Rand with his 'steal David Carradine's shtick' non-withstanding). I also don't know much of DCs roster so make of this what you will:
@DaiWalka: Sure Superman was created as white (there is actually an entire race of black Kryptonians some of which we've met recently in the comics) but the thing about Superman that always got to me was just how race-neutral he always was. I mean you want to talk about the ultimate minority? How about one single person from another galaxy entirely? I mean if that doesn't talk about the alienation and prejudice different minorities might feel I don't know what possibly could. People who talk about racial inequality in comics should try putting themselves in the psychological shoes of Superman or Spiderman or a mutant.
@Smeagol92055: I was always hit pretty hard when I read books featuring characters that were the last of their kind knowing that there's really no one out there that they can relate to. Sometimes it'll be a giant sentient tree-like god for example (Black Company series) or the Deathstalker series where the Owen Deathstalker is pretty much the last remaining member of the main family and everyone's trying to kill him. But then I remember that in the ones I read the lone wolf tends to come around and shred everyone around him to tiny bits so I feel better.
@DaiWalka: Well said on your first point and I only slightly disagree with your second point.
A superhero is a great role model because most of the time a hero can be 100% good and make the right choices all the time. In the real world even a great person will often make a poor decision. I like the idea of a superhero as a role model because at least while the child is looking up to them they won't be let down by them. That may not even make sense but it does in my head.
@crashedpc: The new version of The Atom is the only one I can think of.
I highly recommend checking it out not because of the race thing but because you've got to love any story that involves drive-in movie Cancer-God worshiping pilgrims vs. microscopic mind-controlling aliens who live on the back of a dog (and love EZ-Cheese and reruns of Charles in Charge).
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Fuck it!!! Will Smith was the shit in Hancock. Movie was pretty dope though I understand a lot of people did not enjoy it. I'm up for more black superheroes!!! :D
01/28/09
"How is having the first black president so monumental for this country if he ends up being worse than the last?"
Because it's about having the option for a person of color to be president. Let me tell you most of the black people I know didn't think Obama would win the presidency. They WANTED him to win but they never believed he'd get it because of the very prominent racism in this country.
Btw America is not colorblind. Not. At. All.
"How does having more black superheroes change the way the superhero is viewed when a superhero is titled as such based on their actions and not the color of their skin?"
Again it doesn't have so much to do with how it's viewed as it does with black people being acknowledged as "people" within the comic world. Having a superhero lineup of all white characters is obviously denying the existence of other ethnicities.
"And finally why should a person that may be less qualified for a job be rewarded that job based on the their race when they may be unable perform the duties required to hold such a position?"
I see this argument against Afirmative Action all the time and it's one small very narrow minded look on the problem as a whole.
Here's the problem:
Jimmy lives is poor black and lives in the ghetto with his single mom who is working three jobs to pay the bills.
Jimmy goes to the neighborhood public inner city school because Jimmy's mom can't afford the nicer private school across town.
Jimmy tries hard in school but doesn't get the same advantages (AP classes safer less stressful school environment more parental attention) that a kid going to the nicer private school gets.
When Jimmy applies for college the college looks at Jimmy's record and sees that although he tries hard he didn't get the same academic oppourtunities that the other kid got in private school.
They accept Jimmy over the other kid because the other kid will definitely find another college.
It's a band aid to a much bigger problem. The real problem is that society stacks the odds so badly against Jimmy that it sets him up to fail. He can break out of it but it is very very difficult. So things like Affirmative Action are introduced to balance the odds. I hate AA because it allows people to use the "reverse racism" argument and keeps people distracted from the REAL racism going on here.
Please understand it's not black people trying to get a free ride. It's black people being subjugated for a long long time and using a band aid to fix a HUGE problem.
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01/28/09
Um, yeah. That's actually the point of my argument...
Jimmy being a poor is a socio-economic issue that comes from racial subjugation. The two are not mutually exclusive. It sucks but it's more likely, for various reasons, for white kids to go to private schools or better public schools (that exist in richer areas). If Jimmy as poor and white he's still afforded opportunities that black Jimmy doesn't get.
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01/28/09
"My point is that we should be trying to grow past that point that it should not matter the race of the president as long as they are good."
I agree. We should be able to move past this. But we can't until people are willing to accept that there is prejudice in the world and we need to do more than ignore the problem. People always want "equality" to just happen overnight, when it requires work. Very active work.
"These two things should not matter, the only thing that should matter is getting the right person into the presidential seat and hope he/she does better than the last."
Getting the right person into the presidential seat is a top priority, I agree. But, we can't ignore the fact that merely sixty years ago the same man wouldn't even be able to dine in the same restaurant as a white peer. It's a big step in the right direction and we should be proud of that.
"All you did your rant in justify the drawing of lines between colors"
No actually, you asked about Affirmative Action and I just explained it to you. I actually hate the practice, but at least I understand why it's instated. It wasn't a rant, it was an answer to a question. I'm sorry if you feel attacked, it wasn't my intention. I just want to shed some light on why we have huge race problems in America. I get that you want people to be past that, but such a thing takes time. Lots of time. And that's only assuming if everyone wants an equal America (which they do not).
01/28/09
I spent the entire run of the recently-canceled Blue Beetle trying to convince a friend who always laments the lack of family-friendly old-fashioned-in-a-good-way comics that Blue Beetle was exactly what he was looking for -- and he wouldn't read it because "they killed off Ted Kord just so they could have a Latino character take his place."
I'm sure there was enough of that "I love Ted Kord now that he's dead [and white]" attitude to have contributed to the death of this pretty much perfect comic book.
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01/28/09
maybe we can move onto sycophantic leg tingling?
01/28/09
Fox is in the news business? I thought they specialized in hyperbole and paranoia.
You learn something new every day...
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Of course she's an exception. I always noticed that when Marvel used to introduce a black character it was rarely a standalone. For example when Rhodes took over as Iron Man (he was in Secret Wars) and a "new" Captain Marvel joined the Avengers (she too was in SW). They didn't have their own identity; they were almost an afterthought. (How can we refresh this character/name? OOO! Make them black!)
On the flip side how many black villains have there been?
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Plus, for whatever reason Black Panther was one of my favorite characters when I was a kid, so this is just a bonus for Storm in my book.
01/28/09
And in the case of comic books too many brain cells are being applied to this. Kids look up to superheroes as people they want to be but only the influence of the adults in their lives makes the race of those heroes an issue. As a kid I ran around all the time with a bedsheet tied around my neck and falling to my back pretending I was Superman. I could've cared less if he were white green or purple... And as far as the older comic book fans it's fantasy. Embrace the stories and creativity and don't pay so much attention to ethnicity. Young adults shouldn't be looking towards comics characters as role-models but towards the honorable men and women in their own lives.
--- $0.02 ---
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I think they tend to get type cast in the martial artist role (Danny Rand with his 'steal David Carradine's shtick' non-withstanding). I also don't know much of DCs roster so make of this what you will:
Jubilee
Psylock (kinda. You know what I mean)
Mantis
Bengal
Shang-Chi
Sunfire
Red Lotus
Silver Samurai (when he isn't a villain)
Jolt
Wong
Radioactive Man (also when he isn't a villain)
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Different words for the same issue.
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A superhero is a great role model because most of the time a hero can be 100% good and make the right choices all the time. In the real world even a great person will often make a poor decision. I like the idea of a superhero as a role model because at least while the child is looking up to them they won't be let down by them. That may not even make sense but it does in my head.
01/28/09
I highly recommend checking it out not because of the race thing but because you've got to love any story that involves drive-in movie Cancer-God worshiping pilgrims vs. microscopic mind-controlling aliens who live on the back of a dog (and love EZ-Cheese and reruns of Charles in Charge).
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01/28/09
Waaaaait if you think it's so awful why do you know his catchphrase?
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