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Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
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Klebert L. Hall
11/25/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
So, let's just pretend that this isn't an obvious fake.

What's the difference, functionally? Who cares (well, other than him) if he's in a coma, or conscious but unable to move or communicate? Same thing, really...
-Kle.
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LastAndLeast
11/25/09

@Klebert L. Hall: I bet you wouldn't say that if it happened to you. You post signing nitwit.
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Klebert L. Hall promoted this comment LastAndLeast was starred LastAndLeast was unstarred

Klebert L. Hall
11/26/09

@LastAndLeast:
You are correct. If I was completely unable to communicate, I wouldn't say anything, at all.
-Kle.
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LastAndLeast
11/26/09

@Klebert L. Hall: It just seems remarkably cold to say "who cares if a man is living a tortured life or if he's braindead." It is rather depressing to know there's people like you who seem to posess no empathy.
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Klebert L. Hall
11/27/09

@LastAndLeast:
If someone isn't braindead, (or dead, for that matter) but is indistinguishable in every way from someone with the braindead (or dead) condition . Then what is the functional difference?

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we might as well call it a duck.

The logical result of your "empathic" thinking, is that we should be all torn up about the idea that rocks might be compassionate intelligent beings, and we just can't tell ... My god, we've been cutting and grinding them up for millennia! Oh, the Humanity!
-Kle.
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LastAndLeast
11/27/09

@Klebert L. Hall: Except they scanned his brain and it showed activity. Also, your rock example is specious, because we have never had reason to believe rocks had the capability of thought.
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Edited by LastAndLeast at 11/27/09 8:29 AM LastAndLeast was starred LastAndLeast was unstarred

Klebert L. Hall
11/28/09

@LastAndLeast:
We've never had reason to believe people in vegetative states are capable of thought, either - and we still don't.

This whole event is a flight of fancy and wish-fulfillment fantasy.

Note that the doctor (I use the term loosely) that did the "brain scan" refuses to release the details of the results. Science is based upon repeatable experiments and data transparency, not making ridiculous claims and repeating them often.
-Kle.
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Jonathan Huang
12/02/09

@Klebert L. Hall: and yet it seems you took little to no time to actually read the excerpt of the article. Even if at current, the doctor refuses to release details of the results, the man can communicate. Obviously he is conscious, unless you want to assume people in vegetative states can communicate.
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Klebert L. Hall
12/03/09

@Jonathan Huang:
He can only communicate while someone holds his hand while he types.

By that standard, a Ouija Board communicates with ghosts.
-Kle.
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Jonathan Huang
12/03/09

@Klebert L. Hall: Congratulations, you again infer what you cannot possibly infer from the article. "Houben, who communicates via a computer with a special keyboard activated with the slightest movement of his right hand". Obviously it indicates he communicated.

You're quite good at putting words where none exist though. Let's compare Ouija Boards with Ghosts... with LASERS!
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Klebert L. Hall
12/04/09

@Jonathan Huang:
You know, there are more references to this story than the text at the top of the page...
-Kle.
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darthsodomizer
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
SHENANIGANS
[www.randi.org]
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amygdala
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
Wow. I started out thinking that this was tragic, but once I read the comments (and the James Randi piece linked earlier) now I'm on the horrible farce side. Either way, I'm shuddering.
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MargaretMoony
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
Dear God, I think this is the most terrifying thing in the history of....EVER. How did this guy not go insane?
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Trystero
11/24/09

@MargaretMoony: Are we sure he didn't?
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MargaretMoony
11/24/09

@Trystero: Oooooooooooooooooooh.
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Elorin
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
Which just goes to support those family members who visit comatose patients and talk to them, care for them, let them experience human touch, and read to them. Can you imagine being completely aware, and unable to respond to anything....and neglected for 15+ hours a day? (Assuming you sleep 8 hours a day and get an hour a day's worth of attention from your caretakers.)

Even if someone turns on a TV and you end up listening to Barney and soap operas all day long...isn't that better than perpetual boredom?
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gorehound promoted this comment Elorin was starred Elorin was unstarred

gorehound
11/24/09

@Elorin: actually no.i would rather be dead and have made sure that will happen with my wishes should i ever end up paralyzed like that man.
i feel real bad for him.what a bummer to live like that.
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Elorin
11/24/09

@gorehound: I can certainly empathize with that! An advanced directive is preferable for many reasons to years of a vegetative state.

It reads like a sci fi novel, actually...I wonder what amazing kinds of distractions and fictional worlds someone would create with 20 years of time to his/herself and no entertainment but the mind.
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brentbent: C.O.C.K.R.O.A.C.H. )for all the queer super villians out there(
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
The facilitated communication stuff is pure crap that cannot be verified through scientific scrutiny. In the 70's desperate parents invested tons of money in facilitated communication in hopes of allowing their children to speak--all of it wasted that could have been spent on real research.

This man may be suffering from locked in syndrome but the person typing his supposed words is a charlatan. As somebody below said, if she's really doing what she says she is doing then put a blindfold on her, hold up three common items to the patient, and have him tell her what those items are. You won't see that experiment happen because then the charlatan couldn't write and profit from the absurdly easy to market and sell book supposedly written by a man locked into a coma for over 23 years. Whether the charlatan is a pathetic self-sesrving human or a delusional self-serving human remains to be seen.
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ShamelessSingingRennie
11/24/09

@brentbent: C.O.C.K.R.O.A.C.H. )for all the queer super villians out there(: Nobody is typing for him. He uses his own hand to communicate on a specialized keyboard.
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Edited by ShamelessSingingRennie at 11/24/09 1:46 PM

ShamelessSingingRennie
11/24/09

@ShamelessSingingRennie: Oh hey, look at that, sketchy video footage, shut my mouth.
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hiteklolife
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
look at the footage of the person "assisting " him type and you will see that this is just bullshit. He is paralyzed, he cannot move his hands yet the "assistant" is typing faster than me! This is just cruel. There is no explanation as to how this communication between him and the "assistant" occurs, he is still unable to move and these horrible people are manipulating him, giving false hope to his family and must have ulterior motives for behaving in such a horrific and exploitive way.
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Strakus
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
Hold off judgment a bit- the case is pretty well rife with issues that suggest there may be some fishy bits at work here. The alleged brain scan (either a PET or fMRI) is nowhere to be found, was performed out of the blue and far too long ago for this to be the first stabs at communication made. He communicates with a "facilitator" who apparently just supports and guides his hand and elbow- and is always staring at his keyboard and also speaks Flemish. Pull this off with an blind-folded English-speaking nurse as he describes objects in the room, or just give him an interface he can handle, and we'll see. It's not that his case is impossible, or even improbable, and if true it is indeed a tremendously sad situation. I'm just saying that right now, the murmurings in some circles have concerns this is more akin to autism "cures" and a Ouija board then some grand breakthrough. I will be happy for them (and me) to be proven wrong, and the standards for doing so are clear- one just wonders why they haven't met them yet.
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CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard)
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
Thats just awful. But imagine the bribes he'll get from the gossip nurses just to keep his mouth shut, if and when he comes around!!!!

And where the hell did the name ' Glasgow coma scale' come from?? How hard you get headbutted in Scottland!
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BangarangRufio867
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
My name is Buck and I like to....

too soon?
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MargaretMoony
11/24/09

@BangarangRufio867: That made laugh. Hard.
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Chip Overclock
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
If true, this is like the exact opposite of Alzheimer's. I'm not sure which is more disturbing.
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SNForrester
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
I don't think we have enough information to know if this story is true or not.

If there's a computer involved that measures electrical signals in his brain, I'm willing to believe that he can use it to type out letters.

If it's a human facilitator, then no way. He's just a human Ouija board.
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Jonny_eh
11/24/09

@SNForrester: Nope, you're right. There's a facillitator, super sketchy right there.

[news.yahoo.com]
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Scotland
11/24/09

@Jonny_eh: 1:05
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Jonny_eh
11/24/09

@Scotland: It is so clear that the lady is punching in the messages. This is a scam. I bet she'll come out with a book, and put his name on it. Such a travesty, being taken advantage like that. These people should be ashamed!
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SNForrester
11/24/09

@Jonny_eh: This video is unbelievable! How could anyone watch it and think the coma man is the one typing? The blond woman is so obviously reading the screen and pushing his hand around.

I feel bad for the coma man's mother. You can tell she believes it.
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Lassus
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
Before everyone gets too depressed, there is actually some questioning that he is communicating at all:

[news.yahoo.com]

Now that I think about it, maybe that's even more depressing.

EDIT: Whoops, was already referenced below. In answer to Atomsmoosher, I don't think it can be said definitively either way as of yet, but there are such things as motion sensors available to a micron of pressure, you'd think they could do some more testing.
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Edited by Lassus at 11/24/09 10:56 AM Lassus was starred Lassus was unstarred

korybing
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
I'm not gonna pretend that I know a lot about medical science, because I don't, but why did it take them 20+ years to run a brainscan on the guy to determine that he was conscious? Were brainscans not available until recently?
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Vexxarr
11/24/09

@korybing: Think about it. He's alive. He's non-responsive. Why scan? In 1986 there were a number of external tests thought a reliable means to determine consciousness. Based on the technology and experience of the time, there was no reason to believe the man was suffering from 'locked-in' syndrome or anything other than a persistent vegetative state. Likely, it took a few scans over the years before the right technology and activity combined to demonstrate that the mans was indeed awake.

Since then brain imaging and monitoring has advanced tremedously. In 1986, you might have seen alpha waves and other measurable activity and not really been able to tell what exactly was going one. Realize also that there can easily be a lot of activity while none of it could be considered organized thought.

You are right that imaging, monitoring and non-invasive scanning is the way of the future. Hopefully as we are better able to sense, measure and see our inner workings, medicine will make fewer misdiagnosis like this. In the not too distant future we will be able to take a status snapshot of a living body and know everything that is going on inside down to the molecular level. This is just an extension of technologies like MRI.
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agentgray
11/24/09

In reply to Man Thought to Be in a 23-Year Coma Was Conscious the Whole Time
I would like to know more about the mental state of the guy.

I imagine it would have been like a prison...just sitting there, watching it all.
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DJAbeLincoln
11/24/09

@agentgray: 'The Diving Bell and the Butterfly' is about a man with locked-in syndrome.
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CSX321
11/24/09

@DJAbeLincoln: Indeed. I just watched The Diving Bell and the Butterfly a couple of weeks ago. Only able to blink one eye, he ultimately wrote a memoir with an assistant and a tedious one-letter-at-a-time technique.
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