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San Francisco, 11:40 PM
Mon Dec 14
25 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments

    Experiment Where Scientists Locate 1 Atom in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

    Most Awesome Chemistry Machine at the Photon Factory

    First Particle Beam to Shoot Through the Large Hadron Collider Tomorrow

    "Ghost" Photographs Created via Quantum Entanglement

    Magnetic Fusion in the Spherical Torus Experiment

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of gd01skorpius gd01skorpius
    11/14/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Hello fellow humans! I am just like you and I also have an irrational fear of technology sometimes. But I think that this machine is good! So please do not be afraid okay? Also, please refrain from thinking too hard about circles in the next week or so. Hello! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    gd01skorpius was starred gd01skorpius was unstarred
    Image of Invisible-Echidna Invisible-Echidna
    11/14/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Well, I had a good run. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Invisible-Echidna was starred Invisible-Echidna was unstarred
    Image of stereobot stereobot
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Wooo!!! GO LHC!!

    (holds up a "#1 fan" foam hand) #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    stereobot was starred stereobot was unstarred
    Image of gorehound gorehound
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    awesome soon it will be a big disaster. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    gorehound was starred gorehound was unstarred
    Image of Nefilim Nefilim
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    a strange question and kinda off topic, but here it goes. If you throw a person in the LHC, or any accelerator for that matter, what effect would it have on that person? It would just tear him/her to shreds right? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Nefilim was starred Nefilim was unstarred
    Image of 1Grand_Marquis 1Grand_Marquis
    11/13/09

    @Nefilim: Since they're protons rather than razorblades, I think the bigger danger is heat rather than cutting. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    gorehound promoted this comment 1Grand_Marquis was starred 1Grand_Marquis was unstarred
    Image of gorehound gorehound
    11/13/09

    @1Grand_Marquis: i think that they should try out that experiment.
    there are lots of scumbag terrorists in prisons who should be included in that. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    gorehound was starred gorehound was unstarred
    Image of Nefilim Nefilim
    11/13/09

    @1Grand_Marquis: Understandable, but even after the heat and the person melts into a puddle of molecular ooze what would happen then? would the molecules be accelerated and collide into itself? could it be possible it cane form something else after a cooling process...I'm seriously curious what would happen to a person in there, I'm with gorehound about using death row inmates or a "terrorist" to find out what would actually happen. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Nefilim was starred Nefilim was unstarred
    Image of Xanthippe Xanthippe
    11/13/09

    @Nefilim: I found this Wiki article on a guy that stuck his head in a accelerator proton beam: [en.wikipedia.org]

    Of course, the proton beams at LHC are much greater in energy but overall, it seemed to cause a lot of problems like seizures. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Evil Tortie's Mom: R.O.A.C.H. promoted this comment Annalee Newitz approved this comment Xanthippe was starred Xanthippe was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/13/09


    @Nefilim: I would not put a death row inmate in there... just in case.

    And we don't have death row inmates in western Europe, since we don't have a death row to start with.
     Reply
    Edited by Dirk Anger at 11/13/09 3:17 PM Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of esophus esophus
    11/13/09

    @Dirk Anger: lol...although having a build like that wouldn't be too bad. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger promoted this comment esophus was starred esophus was unstarred
    Image of TotalFanGirl TotalFanGirl
    11/13/09

    @Dirk Anger: Watched that whole stupid movie and all I could think was "What the? Blue penis! Blue penis everywhere!" and now it's haunting me onto the forums. Stupid blue penis, go away! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger promoted this comment TotalFanGirl was starred TotalFanGirl was unstarred
    Image of SJ_Edwards SJ_Edwards
    11/14/09

    @Xanthippe: He saw a flash
    "Brighter than a thousand suns."

    Not a metaphor,
    Not a simile,
    Literally true. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    SJ_Edwards was starred SJ_Edwards was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/14/09

    @TotalFanGirl: That thing was all over the internet, then you watch the movie and, well, he's naked in the comic, so he's naked in the movie, end of the story. We shouldn't be so afraid of penises, you see ears and noses everywhere in every movie and no one comments on it #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/14/09

    @esophus: Yeah but if I'm going to have someone with superpowers, I'd rather he not be a psychopath #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of TotalFanGirl TotalFanGirl
    11/14/09

    @Dirk Anger: Yes, yes I do see ears and noses everywhere in every movie, but I also see them in real life. I can not recall having seen a whole posse of naked men with blue penises in real life. Wait, let me think...nope...definitely not. It's not the penis, it's that it's very glowy and blue and about as big as a house on a movie screen. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    TotalFanGirl was starred TotalFanGirl was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/14/09

    @TotalFanGirl: Well it's there in the movie because it's in the comic. And come on, look at the thumb at its side, it's not that big (but it IS much bigger than in the comic) #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of Nefilim Nefilim
    11/18/09

    @Dirk Anger: good point and make sense. I'll volunteer myself in the name of science!
     Reply
    Nefilim was starred Nefilim was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments

    HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MAN?

    BREAKING NEWS, this just in! There has been yet another massive setback at the LHC, when during a routine check, workers discovered numerous carrots, beets, and parsnips inserted into delicate machinery.
    Already there are allegations of sabotage. These acts are said to be the terrorist plot of a group of moles (or even voles, sources aren't clear on the matter) which are part of a extremist Luddite sect known as "Mole-o-tov Cocktail". This terror cell is believed to take orders from the man pictured above. He is wanted for questioning by authorities, and if you see Him, please contact your local police department immediately.
    This mishap is expected to set the project back by several more months as the machines are repaired and brought back online.
     Reply
    Edited by schrodingers-katana at 11/13/09 12:53 PM schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of tonilost tonilost
    11/13/09

    @schrodingers-katana: Beets? Schrute! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana promoted this comment tonilost was starred tonilost was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    11/13/09

    @tonilost: There have been no confirmation or denial that Schrute Farms had any involvement in this matter. Only time will tell. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of evildead1971 evildead1971
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    please bring about the zombie apocalypse
    please bring about the zombie apocalypse
    please bring about the zombie apocalypse #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    evildead1971 was starred evildead1971 was unstarred
    Image of Adah Adah
    11/13/09

    @evildead1971: Oh, no thanks. I don't own a gun yet. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    evildead1971 promoted this comment Adah was starred Adah was unstarred
    Image of 109838 109838
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Two particles, one cup. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger promoted this comment schrodingers-katana approved this comment 109838 was starred 109838 was unstarred
    Image of Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H. Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H.
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    I have complete faith that the future will come and prevent this from happening (yet again). #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of Shini: R.O.A.C.H. Shini: R.O.A.C.H.
    11/13/09

    @Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H.: If the future comes back to stop us from using the LHC, won't that create a loop? Have those bastards doomed us all? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Shini: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Shini: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H. Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H.
    11/13/09

    @Shini: R.O.A.C.H.: No.. seriously. It's happening. Not our future... but THE future.
    [www.news.com.au] #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H. was starred Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H. was unstarred
    Image of TotalFanGirl TotalFanGirl
    11/13/09

    @Garrison Dean: R.O.A.C.H.: Who's on first? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    SJ_Edwards promoted this comment TotalFanGirl was starred TotalFanGirl was unstarred
    Image of Julius Seizure - Canuck Julius Seizure - Canuck
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Well this proves something is wrong: they tested on Sat the 7th and I for one aged a full year that day.

    Oh, wait. Sat. was my birthday. Never mind. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Julius Seizure - Canuck was starred Julius Seizure - Canuck was unstarred
    Image of Anekanta - Go Play! Anekanta - Go Play!
    11/13/09

    @Julius Seizure - Canuck: Happy Birthday! Mine's next week. I hope the world doesn't end. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Anekanta - Go Play! was starred Anekanta - Go Play! was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/13/09

    @Julius Seizure - Canuck: I've aged one day today and it's not my birthday... That must mean they're going to succeed this time and the ripple has already caught me #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of tetracycloide tetracycloide
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    CERN go to far! CERN am play gods! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    tetracycloide was starred tetracycloide was unstarred
    Image of Anekanta - Go Play! Anekanta - Go Play!
    11/13/09

    @tetracycloide: Don't worry... it's nothing to be conCERNed about... #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Anekanta - Go Play! was starred Anekanta - Go Play! was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/13/09


    @tetracycloide: #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/13/09

    @Dirk Anger: Move, damnit! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of ThisDudeRufus ThisDudeRufus
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Wait, so when exactly does it start up? All the sources I can find just say "a couple of weeks" or mid-November. I need to schedule my Hooray Science/Doomsday party. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    ThisDudeRufus was starred ThisDudeRufus was unstarred
    Image of Skunky Skunky
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments

    "One of the coolest parts about accelerators is that when the microscopic particles smash into the walls, they are moving so fast that they leave long tracks in their wakes."

    So the LHC is basically a giant NASCAR track for particles? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Skunky was starred Skunky was unstarred
    Image of LittleDragon LittleDragon
    11/13/09

    @Skunky: Well its NASCAR for particles and nerds, so BYOB and enjoy the show. No bread products allowed. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    LittleDragon was starred LittleDragon was unstarred
    Image of Skunky Skunky
    11/13/09

    @LittleDragon: I sure hope the fences are tall enough, no one wants to get hit in the face with a tire that fell off of a tumbling particle. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Skunky was starred Skunky was unstarred
    Image of Roklimber Roklimber
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    Nice summary, Annalee, but I'd like to suggest a minor correction and make a few additional comments.

    "... the way they might under extreme conditions or in outer space."

    Particles in outer space do not collide with the energies they have in the LHC, for two reasons: 1) typically, in outer space, they aren't as energetic in the first place and 2) even when they are (such as in cosmic rays), there are so few of them around any one of them that the chances of any collision are vanishingly small (technically, we say that their collision cross section is much too small).

    So, the "might" applies well to "extreme conditions" but hardly to "outer space."

    The extreme conditions the LHC targets are those in the early universe, when it was much smaller and hotter than today and when collision cross sections were, therefore, much larger.

    It's interesting to add that cosmic rays are far more energetic than what the LHC produces but studying them is very hard precisely because their collision cross sections (with our atmosphere or with ground facilities) are far too small for our current detection capabilities.

    In a sense, the LHC trades energy for size: it can't produce particles with as much energy as cosmic rays, but it can pack them much much much closer together, ie, in a much smaller region, thereby achieving a much higher density.

    That's why it can study what amounts to conditions similar to those in the early universe.

    "Often, researchers can gain information from examining these tracks"

    The tracks are the primary means of obtaining information about particle masses, charges, and velocities.

    Calorimeters are "containers" that measure a particle's energy by measuring the heat generated when the particle is stopped. But energy alone is not sufficient to identify a particle. You need its mass, charge, spin, and other characteristics.

    Charged particles move in spirals in the presence of magnetic fields, and the curvatures of those spirals are a measure of their momenta. Using a particle's momentum deduced from the tracks and its energy measured by a calorimeter, it's possible to deduce the particle's mass.

    Also, the direction they spiral (towards the left or towards the right, with respect to their motion) determines the sign of their charge (positive or negative).

    The magnetic field trick above is useless for neutral particles (because they don't spiral), but they are identified by using so-called "conservation laws" (conservation of momentum, energy, angular momentum, charge, lepton number, and others).

    It's a hugely complex jigsaw puzzle, when you come to think of it, to identify all the particles and the reactions they participate in. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Roklimber was starred Roklimber was unstarred
    Image of Blue_Thark Blue_Thark
    11/13/09

    @Roklimber: So how is "spin" determined? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Roklimber promoted this comment Blue_Thark was starred Blue_Thark was unstarred
    Image of Roklimber Roklimber
    11/13/09

    @Blue_Thark:

    Spin is a form of angular momentum, so it's determined by imposing the conservation of angular momentum.

    Spin is a particle's so-called intrinsic angular momentum. There is also orbital angular momentum. Both participate in the law of conservation of angular momentum. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Roklimber was starred Roklimber was unstarred
    Image of Annalee Newitz Annalee Newitz
    11/13/09

    @Roklimber: I agree with what you're saying about "outer space," but since technically most of the phenomena the LHC will measure are ones that only occur in outer space, I think it's still accurate.

    In other news, you are totally awesome. Thank you, as always, for clarification on physics-related topics. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Annalee Newitz was starred Annalee Newitz was unstarred
    Image of Roklimber Roklimber
    11/13/09

    @Annalee Newitz:

    "since technically most of the phenomena the LHC will measure are ones that only occur in outer space, I think it's still accurate."

    Not really, since outer space in today's universe is, for the most part, empty and boring. I know I'm being a bit pedantic here, but it's only in order to help people understand something so fascinating and (lately) controversial a little bit better.

    "In other news, you are totally awesome. Thank you, as always, for clarification on physics-related topics."

    Thanks! You're very kind. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Roklimber was starred Roklimber was unstarred
    Image of Mathmos Mathmos
    11/13/09

    @Roklimber: Nice exposition. It is probably also worth mentioning that many particles can only be identified by the pattern of their decay products, as is expected to be the case for any Higgs particles or "sparticles", predicted supersymmetric partners of standard model fermions.
     Reply
    Edited by Mathmos at 11/13/09 3:38 PM Mathmos was starred Mathmos was unstarred
    Image of Roklimber Roklimber
    11/13/09

    @Mathmos: "Nice exposition."

    Thanks.

    "It is probably also worth mentioning that many particles can only be identified by the pattern of their decay products"

    Very true, and sometimes only by the decay pattern of their "decay parents", as was the case with the neutrino back when it was hypothesized.

    The neutron decays into a proton, an electron, and an anti-neutrino but, at the time, no one knew about the neutrino (or its anti).

    The decay of one particle (the neutron in this case) into exactly two others (the proton and the electron) necessarily fixes the energies of both products, but the experiment revealed a continuum of energies for the electron (over repetitions of the experiment, the electron was found sometimes with one energy, sometimes with another, and so on).

    Eventually, it was suggested (by Pauli, if memory serves) that the neutron decays into a proton, an electron, and one or more neutral particles (the simplest explanation being just one neutral particle), and that's how the neutrino was "identified" (well, hypothesized - it was directly detected much later).

    "supersymmetric partners of standard model fermions"

    I think it will be tremendously exciting if supersymmetry is corroborated.

    More so than finding the Higgs, in my opinion, because the Higgs is almost a done deal (if the Higgs doesn't exist, the Standard Model is in deep deep trouble).
     Reply
    Edited by Roklimber at 11/13/09 3:54 PM Roklimber was starred Roklimber was unstarred
    Image of tralfaz23 tralfaz23
    11/13/09

    In reply to Large Hadron Collider Less Than Two Weeks Away From First Experiments
    please create a blackhole strong enough to swallow our galaxy... or at least Rush Limbaugh and Skip Bayless #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana promoted this comment tralfaz23 was starred tralfaz23 was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    11/13/09

    @tralfaz23: What about Glenn Beck? I wouldn't mind seeing him sobbing his way into the void. #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/13/09

    @schrodingers-katana: How about the hole swallows all of Europe and Asia and leave you alone wit them talking about how that's God's punishment for our liberal decadence/for playing God? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of tralfaz23 tralfaz23
    11/13/09

    @schrodingers-katana: sure, why not, Im sure there's room #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    tralfaz23 was starred tralfaz23 was unstarred
    Image of The_Sporean_Bob The_Sporean_Bob
    11/13/09

    @Dirk Anger: where the hell am I going to move to then?! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger promoted this comment The_Sporean_Bob was starred The_Sporean_Bob was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/13/09

    @The_Sporean_Bob: Nowhere, that's the point

    Don't worry, you'll still have Australia and some Africa. (I think, I'd have to check a non-Mercator map to be sure) #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    11/13/09

    @Dirk Anger: There are still guns though right? I mean, I can shoot them, or barring that working due to some quirk in time/space from the LHC event that makes them impervious to harm, shoot myself right? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/14/09

    @schrodingers-katana: Of course they are, how else would you defend yourselves when some foreign singularity tried to tyrannize you? #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    11/14/09

    @Dirk Anger: That's right, you hear us you quarks, tachyons, and other quantum SUBPARticles, we got guns! You just stay with your kind over there in Europe, and no one gets hurt. Except Glenn Beck maybe, if we're lucky.

    Sweet, I think we just invented quantum xenophysics!
     Reply
    Edited by schrodingers-katana at 11/14/09 11:50 AM schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
    Image of Dirk Anger Dirk Anger
    11/14/09

    @schrodingers-katana: you can also put GB in the accelerator, but if he turns blue and superpowered you keep him #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    Dirk Anger was starred Dirk Anger was unstarred
    Image of schrodingers-katana schrodingers-katana
    11/15/09

    @Dirk Anger: Agreed. That will keep those filthy Russkie particles at bay... for now! #largehadroncollider
     Reply
    schrodingers-katana was starred schrodingers-katana was unstarred
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