High speed rail would be nice, but we really, really, suck at implementing passenger rail in the US.
To actually do it right, we'd have to build new rail right-of-way, and I strongly doubt that the taxpayers are going to want to pony up that kind of cash. We won't even pay to maintain the highway infrastructure we already have....
Obama's heart is in the right place, but there are two big problems with his vision: $13 billion is chump change, nowhere near enough money. He can't actually make money available for anything, Congress controls the money.
-Kle.
@Klebert L. Hall: The $13 billion was already made available by the stimulus bill. And taxpayers are willing to pay for transit. Last November, LA passed Measure R, a sales tax increase to help fund local transit projects. And this was no small effort, because it takes a 2/3 vote to increase taxes in California.
@Darklighter:
Right.
How do you explain away the fact that $13 billion isn't nearly enough to even start a serious high-speed rail system?
That money was a feel-good palliative, not a constructive effort.
Get back to me when we have an actual functioning high-speed (real high-speed, not Acela) passenger rail system that's running at a profit. Then maybe I'll believe you.
As for Measure R, that's not high-speed rail, that's local mass transit. Big difference.
-Kle.
still further is the fact that passenger trains are often forced to idle on the tracks for up to an hour while freight traffic is given higher priority and allowed to go ahead.
Try three hours. a friend of mine took the train from Vancouver, Washington to LA. he was 6 hours late because of the constant stops for that same reason.
i really really really want efficient train travel in the states. i mean really, for how large this country is, and we still have to rely on our cars to cover vast distances!? Air travel is so prohibitively expensive to make it a viable option for regular travel, unless you're in an emergency, or it's on the company dime. There is no alternative. Busses take about a decade to get anywhere...
@Bootknife-Jackson: Of course you'll have the naysayers that will think trains are a waste of money. We've had those kind of people forcing Seattle to make due without Light Rail until this year finally.
@Bootknife-Jackson: You're telling me. I used to live in Gresham with the Blue line and I could go into town easily. I have to laugh at the naysayers in Seattle citing the Portland MAX won't have any ridership. Clearly they've never been on the MAX during rush hour 'cause good luck getting a seat before Ruby Junction!
@a_pink_poodle: HA! no kidding. oh nay sayers.... you so crazy!
i'm right off the yellow line in nopo (where all the cool kids live), i love how i can jump on at my house and get off right in front of Powells and Living Room Theaters. best!
I wish they would connect Dayton and Cincy along I-75 with some sort of train system that way commuting for my wife would carve 75% of her daily trip and it would save us a considerable amount of money on gas. But Ohio sucks so there is likely no way it's ever going to happen in my lifetime.
@Makidian: I spent four years driving between Dayton and Cincinnati when the future Mrs. Overclock was becoming the future Dr. Overclock, Medicine Woman at UC Med School. I totally sympathize with your spousal unit.
@Chip Overclock: It's not terribly awful since we live in Middie, but still it wouldn't hurt to have a high speed rail. It would especially spectaular if it ran from I-71 down to the Ohio River or into Northern Kentucky. The amount of opened up job opportunities and lack of commuter traffic would be awesome. It's also awesome to know a fellow io9'er is from (or lives in) my city. I grew up in Dayton and it breaks my heart to see it decline even further than it had when I was a kid.
@Makidian: I'm afraid Mrs. Overclock (etc.) and I bailed in 1989, moving from Beavercreek to Denver Colorado. But I was born and raised in Dayton, and my spousal unit was born in Cincinnati and raised in Cleveland. We still have friends and family in Dayton and vicinity and get back several times a year.
BTW, Denver has found a lot of success with its Light Rail system from the southern suburbs to Downtown. There is talk about expanding it to our neighborhood west of Denver. We go Downtown about once a month for a concert or show or some such and would definitely use it on a regular basis.
"The Obama Administration has pledged to make as much as $13 billion worth of stimulus money available for high speed rail projects"
That money will go to waste. One thing I learned while living 20 years in the US is that Americans are crazy about cars and hardly anyone likes trains or buses. Public transportation in most large cities I've been to is a joke.
Unless and until the government forces a significant raise in gas prices, people will still cling to their love for cars, meaning that any public transportation system will hardly be economically viable.
@Roklimber: I have to agree. We are a car culture, especially here in southern California. Years of relatively cheap gasoline encouraged this. The perception is people use public transportation because they can't afford to drive (I'm not saying this is true, just that is the perception). It will take something drastic like $5/gallon gas to break the American love affair with our cars (and I'm as guilty as everyone else).
@Roklimber: Well, you guys still fly all over the place. These trains aren't so much trains in the classical sense, than a replacement for the short flights. If it took about the same time, which would you take - a train that leaves from downtown and doesn't involve men in uniforms touching you in strange places, or a plane that leaves from the middle of nowhere, and the security checks take almost as much time as the flight itself? I thought so.
If they're marketed right, they have hope even in America. We can only hope...
@Lightice: Having ridden the TGV in France and the "bullet trains" in Japan, as well as the regular trains in England, Scotland, and Canada, I had to agree: it's actually nicer than flying from a passenger comfort point of view, and about as fast when you consider the trains often end up smack in the middle of downtown of wherever you're going instead of a $60 cab ride from where you need to be.
@Roklimber: I lived in Detroit and endured the crappy bus system to get me here and there for about 5 years . I moved to Ann Arbor--essentially a hop skip & jump away from the D and it was like being in another state entirely. The bus system here is fantastic, but it unfortunately runs only within the limited perimeter of Ann Arbor, the U 0f M campuses, and the outskirts of cities like Dexter or Ypsilanti. I'm sure they have their own bus systems there, but just experiencing such a well run, clean bus system (on the whole--it does have it's kinks) and comparing it to the crap transportation system of it's larger sister city & former car manufacturing hub Detroit, I got to thinking--and I'm sure someone else has had this idea but it's always a good idea to to repeat good ideas.
In the United States specifically, the bus and train systems as a whole should be combined into one government run universal transportation network. It would provide two methods of transportation; multiple ways of boarding or perhaps some sort of yearly bus pass subscription system since people will be using the system regularly; top of the line vehicles, energy efficient buses & trains, high speed trains that can shuttle passengers cross country as fast as is safe; buses that connect with all the places commuters need to go.
This is what I'd personally like to see in the future. We'd cut gas emissions & deadly accidents caused by drivers and aircraft by more than half and most importantly, give people the kind of near-instant access to the United States that they've always wanted. Imagine being able to hop on a mag-lev style shuttle, swiping your $50 a month train pass and being in California or Florida or Virginia or Oregon within an hour or four (depending on starting location, of course). If these sorts of society applicable things got more government money instead of wars or weapons and useless stuff, we'd be that much closer to a true technologically advanced future where society, you know, WORKS. It'd be awesome.
I'm tired of car culture. I don't think that cars will ever go out of style of course--especially in the US, but we've come to a point where we need to make commuting quicker and more accessible to everyone, not just people who have a car. We need to kick fossil fuels and get smart about commuting. Oh God I sound like Al Gore. Cars are fun and useful for getting you where you need to go, but I think they should eventually become more like bikes. Just a way for you to get from point A to point B. Slick, comfortable, accessible public transportation needs to be the norm.
...which gives me another idea. Car racks/booths on trains, anyone?
Would love to have, but we'll never get it.
Why? i09 says [io9.com]
Could be because we just lack the money, could be because we just have a bunch of ass holes planning things.
Remember after WW II much of Europe was in shambles and had to be rebuilt (with our money I mght add).
They rebuilt with modernism in mind especially Germany and Japan, because they knew they had to compete with the rest of the world
I think this idea has been around for awhile. Didn't they use it as part of the design for Syndrome's hideout island in "The Incredibles"? It's a cool idea.
The problem I see is, unless you're riding in your own personal pod from home, you're still going to be sitting in an enclosed space with whatever foul stench the previous occupant of the pod was wallowing in.
I was on a city bus earlier today, so I know what I'm talking about.
@CoffinDodger (If the typos crap. Blame my keyboard): I knew these looked familiar. This article says it's a cramped box of strangers, but at least they're not going to be drenched in sweat and puffing (at least not just to move the thing).
11/27/09
To actually do it right, we'd have to build new rail right-of-way, and I strongly doubt that the taxpayers are going to want to pony up that kind of cash. We won't even pay to maintain the highway infrastructure we already have....
Obama's heart is in the right place, but there are two big problems with his vision: $13 billion is chump change, nowhere near enough money. He can't actually make money available for anything, Congress controls the money.
-Kle.
11/27/09
11/28/09
Right.
How do you explain away the fact that $13 billion isn't nearly enough to even start a serious high-speed rail system?
That money was a feel-good palliative, not a constructive effort.
Get back to me when we have an actual functioning high-speed (real high-speed, not Acela) passenger rail system that's running at a profit. Then maybe I'll believe you.
As for Measure R, that's not high-speed rail, that's local mass transit. Big difference.
-Kle.
11/26/09
Try three hours. a friend of mine took the train from Vancouver, Washington to LA. he was 6 hours late because of the constant stops for that same reason.
i really really really want efficient train travel in the states. i mean really, for how large this country is, and we still have to rely on our cars to cover vast distances!? Air travel is so prohibitively expensive to make it a viable option for regular travel, unless you're in an emergency, or it's on the company dime. There is no alternative. Busses take about a decade to get anywhere...
11/26/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
i'm right off the yellow line in nopo (where all the cool kids live), i love how i can jump on at my house and get off right in front of Powells and Living Room Theaters. best!
11/26/09
Irrational prejudice against technology is not limited to the USA.
11/26/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/28/09
BTW, Denver has found a lot of success with its Light Rail system from the southern suburbs to Downtown. There is talk about expanding it to our neighborhood west of Denver. We go Downtown about once a month for a concert or show or some such and would definitely use it on a regular basis.
11/26/09
That money will go to waste. One thing I learned while living 20 years in the US is that Americans are crazy about cars and hardly anyone likes trains or buses. Public transportation in most large cities I've been to is a joke.
Unless and until the government forces a significant raise in gas prices, people will still cling to their love for cars, meaning that any public transportation system will hardly be economically viable.
11/26/09
11/26/09
"especially here in southern California"
How well I know... I lived in Orange County (Irvine, actually) for some 12 years.
11/26/09
If they're marketed right, they have hope even in America. We can only hope...
11/26/09
11/26/09
In the United States specifically, the bus and train systems as a whole should be combined into one government run universal transportation network. It would provide two methods of transportation; multiple ways of boarding or perhaps some sort of yearly bus pass subscription system since people will be using the system regularly; top of the line vehicles, energy efficient buses & trains, high speed trains that can shuttle passengers cross country as fast as is safe; buses that connect with all the places commuters need to go.
This is what I'd personally like to see in the future. We'd cut gas emissions & deadly accidents caused by drivers and aircraft by more than half and most importantly, give people the kind of near-instant access to the United States that they've always wanted. Imagine being able to hop on a mag-lev style shuttle, swiping your $50 a month train pass and being in California or Florida or Virginia or Oregon within an hour or four (depending on starting location, of course). If these sorts of society applicable things got more government money instead of wars or weapons and useless stuff, we'd be that much closer to a true technologically advanced future where society, you know, WORKS. It'd be awesome.
I'm tired of car culture. I don't think that cars will ever go out of style of course--especially in the US, but we've come to a point where we need to make commuting quicker and more accessible to everyone, not just people who have a car. We need to kick fossil fuels and get smart about commuting. Oh God I sound like Al Gore. Cars are fun and useful for getting you where you need to go, but I think they should eventually become more like bikes. Just a way for you to get from point A to point B. Slick, comfortable, accessible public transportation needs to be the norm.
...which gives me another idea. Car racks/booths on trains, anyone?
09/19/09
So NASA invented a ski lift?
09/19/09
But your picture reminded me of happy kid days at Disneyland, so yay.
09/19/09
Why? i09 says [io9.com]
Could be because we just lack the money, could be because we just have a bunch of ass holes planning things.
Remember after WW II much of Europe was in shambles and had to be rebuilt (with our money I mght add).
They rebuilt with modernism in mind especially Germany and Japan, because they knew they had to compete with the rest of the world
09/19/09
10/02/09
09/18/09
09/18/09
I was on a city bus earlier today, so I know what I'm talking about.
09/18/09
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