So, here's a serious question: are there interesting things that you can do with time travel that aren't about the question of changing the future? #paradox
@braak: Maybe making sure the future does happen, but I guess that would someone would be trying to change it. The long and short answer of your question is 'no' I do believe. #paradox
@Makidian: Watch Primer - it deals with both ideas, how to travel through time and not change the future, and all the other consequences. It requires multiple viewings to get how the whole thing untangles. Highly recommended! #paradox
@braak: Time travel can be used merely as a setting. in 99% of doctor who episodes, for example, timeline stuff really isnt plot centric
You can also have time travel used as a predictive tool. So its not about changing the future, merely knowing what it is.
(eg, buying the winning lottery ticket using time travel requires no paradox, as long as you dont claim till after you return).
You can even use time-travel in a story merely as a direction to travel in. Seeing the universe from a 90 degree rotated angle gives you a very weird perspective on the universe. (hmz cant quite remember the short story that had that). #paradox
Maybe they should be doing more of these miniseries with a definite beginning middle and end instead of trying to drag it all out over several seasons. This way we could maybe have enjoyed TSCC. BSG may not have flamed out so much in its final season. These writers seem to start out strong but with no conclusion in sight, they seem to struggle in season 2 or so. #paradox
@omnibus_spiritus: You dont need to fixed length to do that though.
You simply have to write with possible endings in mind. Every question you raise, you must already know *a* answer too.
You cycle the plotlines, wrap up some, introduce more. Farscape pulled this off very well (imho). They had zero-day notice of cancellation, but as they didn't have so many ongoing plots, a miniseries pretty much wrapped it all up.
Thats the problem with BSG.
They had a whole season to wrap stuff up and failed too. Length wasnt their problem, just bad writting. They had enough notice.
Of course, sometimes the opersite can happen.
Babylon 5 wrapped everything up really nicely in its 4th seasons, only to get renewed and struggled :P #paradox
@twDarkflame: I look at a show like Dexter as a prime example of good writing. I would say this is the best series on TV that I watch. Each season has a storyline. The first was about the Ice Truck Killer, the second revolved around Dexter's psycho girlfriend and the last revolved around his relationship with the DA. Each season wrapped up the substory, while the big picture carries on. It is a simple arch, he is a serial killer, when will he get caught? I think there are often too many subplots that distract from the main story. I think many of these subplots are not important. You can end Dexter this season if you want to. He gets caught! The other plots are not really that important. I don't want to get into them too much so as not to wreck it for everybody else.
I would see SGU kind of like Star Trek Voyager. Lost in space, have to get home, have some adventures along the way. We knew Harry Kim was attached to his parents but we didn't have to go into every hockey game his father failed to attend or how heartbroken they were when they found out he was lost in space. Janeway had a husband but a simple picture of him on her mantle was enough to get the message across that she cared for him. Each season ends with a cliffhanger, but the crux of the show is that they have to get home.
BSG had a premise of "we have to get to earth", but then got distracted with the destinies and visions and so forth. The second main storyline was the religious angle. They could have really done something with that and I felt ripped off with what we got. I think the two storylines about the voyage and religion caused conflict as to which was more important and the show to lose direction, of course this falls on the heads of the writers as you say. #paradox
BBC has at least been trying to win over the sci-fi community , while Sy-fy really hasn`t done much , though I enjoy Eureka and SG :universe is ok . #paradox
@reddingofish: They probably will but they will show it too long after its original air time. I find it's just easier to dl the shows that I miss over here that are airing over there, Dr. Who is the best example I can use. I can wait for it to air on Syfy, read a recap from the BBC airing, or wait for it to air on BBCAm, or I can watch it the night after it airs on BBC by dl/ing it. #paradox
@Ghost_in_the_Machine: Goddammit, if people tuned in last season, they'll tune in this season, and they'll like it.
Coming up with new ideas is hard, so we'll keep running the same one into the ground, and if it's successful for even one second, expect a slew of knock-offs on the other networks. And we'll make another version of the same show, but with different characters in a different city. So, expect FlashForward:NY next season to run right after CSI:Saskatoon #paradox
@Ghost_in_the_Machine: Yeah, it seems to be a bit of a trend within the BBC to have dramas running over 5 consecutive nights - I guess it does away with the problem Lost and Heroes face, namely audiences getting bored or confused and switching over and never coming back. #paradox
@Discodave: R.O.A.C.H. M.O.T.E.L.: There are a lot of disadvantages to having state-run media, but I think this is reflective of one of the advantages: there's less pressure to ensure continued, indefinite success from a series. #paradox
@braak: Well, I'd agree with you on the pressure part, but I'd suggest that perhaps your definition of the BBC is slightly off - the Beeb is publicly funded and rigidly impartial, although it depends on the government to set its funding.
Having said that, the BBC still doesn't back off from criticising the government if it feels it has to - the Dr David Kelly affair being an obvious case in point.
(Sorry, I just like distancing the Beeb from other less impartial state-run channels). #paradox
@Discodave: R.O.A.C.H. M.O.T.E.L.: yes, only in most cases they dont tune in to start with.
For every well made short (Jekyll) theres dozens of absolutely rubbish ones.
Basically like sci-fi miniseries. Shorter dosnt not magically make thing better. Nor does it garenty new ideas.
Quality wise, US TV beats british for dramas hands down.
Sometimes dramas take awhile to get going, but then get pretty fantasic. Would Farscape have been better with just a miniseries? No, not really. would have become a straightforward "lost in space..gets home" style. Would Lost? No...for much the same reason.
Sometimes shows only get interesting when given time to grow. Writting a good short-story is much much harder then a strong long one.
And yes, I'm british.
Give me someone as well made (and planned) as Lost for 5 seasons any day over having 3 hours of decent tv every few years.
@twDarkflame: It depends on the story. Lost works better over a long time. Jekyll worked in the short form and the ending left room to continue if they wanted to.
Paradox, the show mentioned, sounds like it fits a short form better. #paradox
Sounds good to me, I love this sort of stuff. And if she's a bad detective ? Even better. I'm tired of books which assume anyone can take on the detective trade and be great at it. Being a detective takes training, experience and hard work, it ain't enough just to choose to do it (like the athletes who when they retire say "I'll go become an actor.")
The writing on this is rather horrible. Got an advanced copy through a bookstore friend and it's so incredibly ham-fisted in its exposition I could barely finish the damn thing. The opening chapters (October's job at the grocery store, et al) for instance were so hackneyed and insincere I was convinced McGuire had never worked a blue collar gig in her life and was just faking it as best she could.
On a separate note, the obligations and Faerie magic very much remind me of White Wolf's Changeling: The Lost.
@Now With More Bob!: Adrian Monk was my first thought as well. I just can't think there'd be enough wipes in the city for him to ever leave his apartment in this version of San Francisco.
You know, this reminds me so much of Laurell K. Hamilton's Merry Gentry series.
The main character has human blood in her which makes her somewhat mortal in the realms of the Faerie world and despite being of royal lineage, shes somewhat a pariah.
So she disappears into the human world to work as a detective until shes being hunted down by her own kind.
That plus the amount of suitors in her life and responsibilities and plight she has to face being a Fey. It's hard not to draw any comparison between the 2 books.
I didn't like the Merry Gentry books (or at least the first one, I didn't even get more than half way through) so I'm not sure I would like this either.
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
You can also have time travel used as a predictive tool. So its not about changing the future, merely knowing what it is.
(eg, buying the winning lottery ticket using time travel requires no paradox, as long as you dont claim till after you return).
You can even use time-travel in a story merely as a direction to travel in. Seeing the universe from a 90 degree rotated angle gives you a very weird perspective on the universe. (hmz cant quite remember the short story that had that). #paradox
10/20/09
Watching Flashforward after seeing Primer is like being forcefed baby food after dining on the world's finest cuisine. #paradox
10/19/09
10/19/09
You simply have to write with possible endings in mind. Every question you raise, you must already know *a* answer too.
You cycle the plotlines, wrap up some, introduce more. Farscape pulled this off very well (imho). They had zero-day notice of cancellation, but as they didn't have so many ongoing plots, a miniseries pretty much wrapped it all up.
Thats the problem with BSG.
They had a whole season to wrap stuff up and failed too. Length wasnt their problem, just bad writting. They had enough notice.
Of course, sometimes the opersite can happen.
Babylon 5 wrapped everything up really nicely in its 4th seasons, only to get renewed and struggled :P #paradox
10/19/09
I would see SGU kind of like Star Trek Voyager. Lost in space, have to get home, have some adventures along the way. We knew Harry Kim was attached to his parents but we didn't have to go into every hockey game his father failed to attend or how heartbroken they were when they found out he was lost in space. Janeway had a husband but a simple picture of him on her mantle was enough to get the message across that she cared for him. Each season ends with a cliffhanger, but the crux of the show is that they have to get home.
BSG had a premise of "we have to get to earth", but then got distracted with the destinies and visions and so forth. The second main storyline was the religious angle. They could have really done something with that and I felt ripped off with what we got. I think the two storylines about the voyage and religion caused conflict as to which was more important and the show to lose direction, of course this falls on the heads of the writers as you say. #paradox
10/19/09
10/19/09
God I hate twists. #paradox
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
Coming up with new ideas is hard, so we'll keep running the same one into the ground, and if it's successful for even one second, expect a slew of knock-offs on the other networks. And we'll make another version of the same show, but with different characters in a different city. So, expect FlashForward:NY next season to run right after CSI:Saskatoon #paradox
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
Having said that, the BBC still doesn't back off from criticising the government if it feels it has to - the Dr David Kelly affair being an obvious case in point.
(Sorry, I just like distancing the Beeb from other less impartial state-run channels). #paradox
10/19/09
Still does get to enjoy certain merits compared to our own. #paradox
10/19/09
For every well made short (Jekyll) theres dozens of absolutely rubbish ones.
Basically like sci-fi miniseries. Shorter dosnt not magically make thing better. Nor does it garenty new ideas.
Quality wise, US TV beats british for dramas hands down.
Sometimes dramas take awhile to get going, but then get pretty fantasic. Would Farscape have been better with just a miniseries? No, not really. would have become a straightforward "lost in space..gets home" style. Would Lost? No...for much the same reason.
Sometimes shows only get interesting when given time to grow. Writting a good short-story is much much harder then a strong long one.
And yes, I'm british.
Give me someone as well made (and planned) as Lost for 5 seasons any day over having 3 hours of decent tv every few years.
10/19/09
10/19/09
Paradox, the show mentioned, sounds like it fits a short form better. #paradox
09/30/09
09/29/09
On a separate note, the obligations and Faerie magic very much remind me of White Wolf's Changeling: The Lost.
[en.wikipedia.org]
09/29/09
That would be because the author is a Changeling player and has been kicking around on mushes for forever.
09/29/09
Next on the line: Wraith, Hunter, Demon.
09/28/09
09/29/09
@Now With More Bob!: Adrian Monk was my first thought as well. I just can't think there'd be enough wipes in the city for him to ever leave his apartment in this version of San Francisco.
09/29/09
Pixie dust.
GET IT OFF! GET IT OFF! WIPE!
09/28/09
The main character has human blood in her which makes her somewhat mortal in the realms of the Faerie world and despite being of royal lineage, shes somewhat a pariah.
So she disappears into the human world to work as a detective until shes being hunted down by her own kind.
That plus the amount of suitors in her life and responsibilities and plight she has to face being a Fey. It's hard not to draw any comparison between the 2 books.
09/28/09
I didn't like the Merry Gentry books (or at least the first one, I didn't even get more than half way through) so I'm not sure I would like this either.
09/28/09