San Francisco, 12:37 PM
Sat Dec 19
24 posts in the last 24 hours
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Radiation is tough to protect against. LOE provides very significant protection, but as you move further out, that is lost. Being exposed to a solar storm could be life ending and the moon astronauts were lucky.
Every scale model of satellites and shuttles altitudes never really show the altitudes correctly. Geostationary orbits are 22,500 miles up, but the shuttle and space station are only 144 miles. Earth's diameter is 7900 miles. LEO, low Earth orbit, really is low.
I've seen no reasonable effective design to protect humans in space over the durations required beyond burying ourselves below ground and placing radiation warning satellites around the Sun so when it happens, we can run like chip monks and get underground FAST.
"We are going to need this many dollars."
"We are going to need this many years."
"We are going to need to send this many tonnes."
"We are going to need to send this many people."
And
"We are going to need to leave them there."
Will be the first time they are actually serious about doing it.
A one way trip lowers the cost by an order of magnitude.
A one way trip lowers the risk by an order of magnitude.
Any proposal that isn't a one way trip, isn't a serious proposal and simply isn't going to happen.
In 1970, NASA said there would be a human landing on Mars by 1984. The shuttle was suposed to be so cheap and easy once it got up and running, there would be a launch a week. A colony on the moon has been 15-20 years away since about 1962. The Constellation program is the post-Apollo heavy lift vehicle, with all the dates changed.
I'll believe it when I see it. What we need is a president who will make a crazy-ass speech with a ridiculous goal, like Kennedy's "we will go to the moon" speech. I'll believe that when I see it, too.
@cletar: I remember one day in grade school coming home and excitedly telling my parents what we learned that day. ...the metric system will replace the English system within 5 to 10 years.
My parents both laughed and explained that when they were in school (back in the '30s and '40s), they were told the exact. same. thing.
...
I seriously doubt that within my lifetime there will be a Human colony on either the Moon or Mars. We won't have flying cars, there won't be helicopters in every driveway, and the English system will still be alive and well. :P
So in the immortal words of principal Skinner, I'd just like to end by exclaiming to the next generation of scientists: "Prove me wrong, children! Prove me wrong!"
@Twisk: Everything about the future that I was told as a child in the Seventies was a lie. No moonbases. No good Star Wars prequels. Of course, on the plus side, we didn't have an ape-slave revolt, so there's that, at least.
I suggest that we send up as many millionaire clowns up in space as first generation space colonist guinea pigs just to make sure that it's viable. And tell them that Earth is being threatened by a mutant Space Goat.
@crashedpc - Haifisch: I absolutely agree; ditch the over-privileged morons. As long as we keep the telephone sanitizers we should be okay. Righto, now that's settled I'm going to pop off and take a nice, relaxing bath.
By the way, definitely click the "NASA Ames Research Center" link at the bottom of the article -- it leads to a whole gallery of space colony concept art from the 1970s.
@Belabras: Seriously. We need to stop wasting money on grubby little psuedo-imperial wars, and expand into the solar system. These old fogey neoconservative imperialist polititicians think way too small. The U.S.'s military budget is being squandered.
No mention of Abram's Star Trek, which was basically Superman Returns 2.0, a stale lifeless shell of what it should be. I'd give SR 1 if it wasn't for that I kinda saw it coming. I for one loved Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis, BSG's finale, the Star Wars Prequels, Indy 4, Terminator Salvation and the Matrix sequels, in fact the first Matrix sucked in my opinion, the Sequels saved that franchise. Watchmen was only disappointing if you had unrealistic expectations, I found it better then I expected
If you want to know why NASA doesn't have a replacement vehicle for the Shuttle system, look in the mirror, people.
They have tried multiple times to get a replacement program off the ground, only to be rebuffed or unfunded by Congress. Various presidents have made promises to deliver a replacement, none have delivered and it looks like Barack Obama will join their long and quite frankly undistinguished ranks.
So why do I say it is OUR fault? Because we as votes have been largely indifferent and complacent when it comes to our space program. It is lauded when it succeeds, but jeered when it rightly delays missions due to safety or performance concerns. And when the worst happens -- as it has twice with the Shuttle -- we want to vilify and blame who-ever is responsible...as though spaceflight is now safe and routine.
Many of us like to talk about privatizing space, but that is pie in the sky until a firm -- any firm, mind you -- can reliably deliver any payload to orbit, much less carry humans. Yes, SpaceX and others are doing promising work. Until they can prove their systems, however, we cannot rely upon them as though they are up and running full steam ahead.
The bottom line is that the Augustine Commission has laid on the President's desk a number or recommendations and proposals. To date, he has done nothing with them. In fact, current rumor is that NASA's budget - already far less than the money it needs to do the jobs of which it asked - will be slashed a further ten percent. If that happens, the only way American astronauts will leave the Earth is if they buy a ticket like so many tycoons have already done.
And we, the people, are ignoring this and letting it happen. Shame on us, and don't whine a minute about it. We did it to ourselves and are getting our just deserts.
10:34 AM
07:45 AM
It isn't colonization until people are born and grow up there.
-Kle.
12:00 AM
Every scale model of satellites and shuttles altitudes never really show the altitudes correctly. Geostationary orbits are 22,500 miles up, but the shuttle and space station are only 144 miles. Earth's diameter is 7900 miles. LEO, low Earth orbit, really is low.
I've seen no reasonable effective design to protect humans in space over the durations required beyond burying ourselves below ground and placing radiation warning satellites around the Sun so when it happens, we can run like chip monks and get underground FAST.
We take our magnetosphere for granted. [history.nasa.gov]
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
"We are going to need this many dollars."
"We are going to need this many years."
"We are going to need to send this many tonnes."
"We are going to need to send this many people."
And
"We are going to need to leave them there."
Will be the first time they are actually serious about doing it.
A one way trip lowers the cost by an order of magnitude.
A one way trip lowers the risk by an order of magnitude.
Any proposal that isn't a one way trip, isn't a serious proposal and simply isn't going to happen.
12/18/09
12/18/09
I'll believe it when I see it. What we need is a president who will make a crazy-ass speech with a ridiculous goal, like Kennedy's "we will go to the moon" speech. I'll believe that when I see it, too.
12/18/09
My parents both laughed and explained that when they were in school (back in the '30s and '40s), they were told the exact. same. thing.
...
I seriously doubt that within my lifetime there will be a Human colony on either the Moon or Mars. We won't have flying cars, there won't be helicopters in every driveway, and the English system will still be alive and well. :P
So in the immortal words of principal Skinner, I'd just like to end by exclaiming to the next generation of scientists: "Prove me wrong, children! Prove me wrong!"
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
Hmmmm... book plot. Damn.
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
(For what it's worth, I didn't actually remember all that; the interwebs are a wonderful thing on a slow day at work!)
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/18/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
I call flamebait... so I'll just stop right there
12/10/09
12/10/09
12/10/09
They have tried multiple times to get a replacement program off the ground, only to be rebuffed or unfunded by Congress. Various presidents have made promises to deliver a replacement, none have delivered and it looks like Barack Obama will join their long and quite frankly undistinguished ranks.
So why do I say it is OUR fault? Because we as votes have been largely indifferent and complacent when it comes to our space program. It is lauded when it succeeds, but jeered when it rightly delays missions due to safety or performance concerns. And when the worst happens -- as it has twice with the Shuttle -- we want to vilify and blame who-ever is responsible...as though spaceflight is now safe and routine.
Many of us like to talk about privatizing space, but that is pie in the sky until a firm -- any firm, mind you -- can reliably deliver any payload to orbit, much less carry humans. Yes, SpaceX and others are doing promising work. Until they can prove their systems, however, we cannot rely upon them as though they are up and running full steam ahead.
The bottom line is that the Augustine Commission has laid on the President's desk a number or recommendations and proposals. To date, he has done nothing with them. In fact, current rumor is that NASA's budget - already far less than the money it needs to do the jobs of which it asked - will be slashed a further ten percent. If that happens, the only way American astronauts will leave the Earth is if they buy a ticket like so many tycoons have already done.
And we, the people, are ignoring this and letting it happen. Shame on us, and don't whine a minute about it. We did it to ourselves and are getting our just deserts.
12/09/09
12/10/09