Since "myth" has been changed to the less-effective "belief system," I believe the Christians who read this page are no longer being properly marginalized.
I would like to offer that service to them now.
I believe they need it.
Christians: your story is a myth, and I mean that not just in the anthropological sense of "a story, or a belief system," but in the more common sense of that word, meaning, "something that is not true...something totally made up."
History, science, archeology, even REALITY, all fail completely to support your fun little story of magic and guilt and violence. Virgin births don't happen, though there's no shortage of historical messiah figures from both before and after Jesus of Nazareth who were allegedly born that way; the miracles of Jesus were primarily written about decades and even generations after they allegedly took place; and the original book of Matthew completely failed to mention that Jesus ever came back from the dead--kind of an important detail, you might think.
Anyway, every religion on the planet has their beliefs--their myths, if you will--so wanting special preference for Christianity's unprovable story really just sounds petulant and irrational. You should no more be offended over Christianity's beliefs being referred to as myths than you should over hearing the beliefs of African tribesmen and Navajo medicine men referred to in that way.
Really, grow up, and get the hell over yourselves. If you want to continue believing stories that have no more facts to back them up than anyone else's unprovable stories, then you might want to grow some thicker skin while you're at it. Or at least shut up about it all.
@MikeSmith: Why do you feel a compulsion to insult other's beliefs? Some self examination may be in order, that sort of anger and hatred is not healthy. I hope you get better. Getting through puberty will help. Good luck.
Not to be a stickler, but the Bible has shown to be fairly accurate history, and archeology has supported much of it as well. We'll never know about the "magic" stuff, that's why they call it faith.
What I can't figure out is why the word "myth" bothers so many people. Myth just means "story." The connotation of falseness is something we can choose to ignore (I mean, we could have given Annalee the benefit of the doubt and realized she meant no offence); and just because religious stories can be considered mythology doesn't make them any less valid or useful.
@an aching taste of blue: Technically, you're right, but the falseness connotation has overwhelmed all the other meanings, so everyone gets bent out of shape.
@an aching taste of blue: I was taught in my Catholic high school that a vast amount of Bible stories are myths. That's generally what something is when you don't take it as the literal truth-- a story with a moral. A myth.
But then again, a fair amount of Protestants don't consider Catholics as Christians. Because they apparently worship the saints. Hm... I'm an atheist now, but I don't ever remember worshiping saints in my Roman Catholic childhood.
@Lassus: Well, I guess the other religions have the age thing going for them. Scientology is, what, only about 40 years old? I personally agree with you. But hey, man, the age thing really makes a difference to most people. But when people make fun of Scientology, I usually say something like, "Oh, so your zombie space god with multiple personalities is more believable?" That usually shuts them up for a bit. But then they bring back the age thing. *sigh* Religions just can't get any respect around here unless they're ancient.
@meirelle wants an F-15: From the point of view of pure faith, having faith in one unseen thing is the same as another. To believe in the physical reality of Xenu and his followers existing here as mental ghosts is pretty much the same thing as believing that angels are somehow going to help your football team win the Rose Bowl, or believing in UFOs.
But believing in religion itself? Or in god itself as a fundamental spiritual force? That's not quite the same thing. It's simply believing in another reality, different than this one. Which is also a belief unprovable, and unscientific in principle.
BUT on the one hand, one believes that one's religion is right because of the sheer number of people it's had a positive effect on. And because of the effect as a whole. There are marked differences between healthy spiritual beliefs and those used for predatory and parasitic purposes, even if the fundamental kind of faith you have is the same.
man, I got here late, and am stuck with this midlevel horse, all the high ones are gone...
I'm pretty sure there are Christians who are jerks...and there are Jews who are jerks, and Muslims who are jerks, and there are atheist and agnostic jerks as well - but should we really go around categorizing the whole because of the few (or even the many?) Until every single Christian tells you that you're going to hell for not being like them, then the blanket statement is false, and since I'm a Christian who never tells anyone they're going to hell for their beliefs or nonbeliefs, the blanket statement will never be true. So, relax...
And it goes for the other side too - if you believe in something, great, fantastic - but keep your damn views out of everyone else's life. Trying to change folks minds about beliefs/non-beliefs is like telling them their shoes are ugly. They made their choices, just like you did. Part of my faith is based on the acknowledgment that I could be completely wrong - as my favorite author and renowned atheist, Douglas Adams, once wrote: "Proof denies Faith." It's one thing to think you're right, to believe you're right, but none of us know with any certainty (except for my dog, and he's not telling, but he did die once and was brought back by the vets, so I'm pretty sure he knows.)
Does the Christian-bashing bother me? Yes and No - no, it doesn't because some of it is valid, some of it is funny, and all of it is the opinion of the authors. If it bugged me, I'd skip that author or the site altogether. I don't need my beliefs validated by other's opinions, and I don't let others opinions invalidate my beliefs.
The part that does bother me is that most of the Christian-bashing that goes on is really Catholic-bashing (Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.) Can't us Protestants get some mud slung our way? Come on, guys, I'm Lutheran - like the Nazis! This is the freaking internet, is there NO ONE willing to call me a Nazi without actually knowing me? Sheesh!
@c0dek: All (ok, most) comedy aside, I really appreciate your coming out as a Tolerant Christian. The irreligious tend forget that most people of faith are perfectly reasonable and tolerant of their fellow mammals.
Except for the Episcopalians, those guys are just FREAKS!
The Episcopalians are basically one step past the Unitarians at this point. I mean, they call themselves "Whiskeypalians" (hic!), think pretty much any religion is a-okay (except maybe Southern Baptists), accept divorce, encourage birth control, have women and gay and lesbian priests and bishops.
Really, the only mortal sin for Episcopalians is using the wrong fork at dinner. Outside in, people!
Why, yes, I may have just had some of the champagne left over from last night, why do you ask?
@RAHfanboy: I was just thinking about that last night. How did that work? The time under warp drive just automagically matched up with the stationary time somehow.
@gods-n-clods: You've obviously never been in China on Chinese New Year... at least in Hong Kong, everything shut down. It was especially bad one year, when I hadn't done my grocery shopping in time and there were no restaurants open. Except like McDonalds.
@Charlie Jane Anders: I guess I should have wrote, "West-Coast-Particularly-Los-Angeles-Chinese-New-Year". And I take back my complaint partially. I was able to go out for provisions, but no soy cheeseWHhhAAA!
@meirelle wants an F-15: Oh, I seldom if ever eat the stuff, I just felt like makin' pizza (and I'm doing one of those hippie-Californian intestinal-detox diets, so there you go).
@gods-n-clods: I have tasted soy cheese once, and it tasted like dirt. Well, okay, to be fair, I don't know if it was soy cheese. But it was vegan cheese. D: I'm not to big on soy anyways. I prefer almond milk to soy milk. Is there almond cheese?
Changed the word "myth" to "belief system," which is what I meant. It's true that I don't believe in a Christian God, but it is not my intent to alienate or offend anybody who does.
@Annalee Newitz: Quite a bonnet full of buzzing bees you've stirred up Annalee... I kind of expect that from i09 - We may not all agree, but we're all thinking...
@Annalee Newitz: Thank heavens you changed it. Nothing could be more antithetical to Christianity than that its followers should ever be made to feel like pariahs, outcasts, or outsiders.
@Annalee Newitz: Dammit, Annalee. I feel totally marginalized. Is there no safe space for believers in the Sun's rotation around the Earth?
Next thing you'll be telling me that people with different political beliefs like the same tv shows as me. Or posting about franchises that are only marginally science fiction.
@Moff: With Annalee's nanoffenseive blognology we will all be marginalized. Smaller, and smaller soon to reach molecular size. Then she will put us in one of her many empty film canisters that she hides in her Bad Batz Maru backpack and laugh an evil laugh.
There is no escape.
Weep for us, o world, weep for us the tiny the doomed microcommenters. 2009 CE shall be our final year.
In this case it just happens to be a crack that affects me personally, but I would have made a similar reply if the post had gone out of its way to mock any other group. The point is, what did the "western myth" remark have to do with Sci-Fi?
If this was blog about religion or the lack thereof, then I wouldn't say anything. If I was a political blog and they were taking swipes at one party or another, I wouldn't say anything. But this is a sci-fi blog. Why go out of your way to marginalize a group of your readers? Doesn't make sense.
@Kiamat: I'm not Annalee, but I think it was just a joke, based on the idea that it's probably not New Year's day on any other planet right now. Nor is it probably 2009 on any planet except this one. Although you never know.
01/02/09
I would like to offer that service to them now.
I believe they need it.
Christians: your story is a myth, and I mean that not just in the anthropological sense of "a story, or a belief system," but in the more common sense of that word, meaning, "something that is not true...something totally made up."
History, science, archeology, even REALITY, all fail completely to support your fun little story of magic and guilt and violence. Virgin births don't happen, though there's no shortage of historical messiah figures from both before and after Jesus of Nazareth who were allegedly born that way; the miracles of Jesus were primarily written about decades and even generations after they allegedly took place; and the original book of Matthew completely failed to mention that Jesus ever came back from the dead--kind of an important detail, you might think.
Anyway, every religion on the planet has their beliefs--their myths, if you will--so wanting special preference for Christianity's unprovable story really just sounds petulant and irrational. You should no more be offended over Christianity's beliefs being referred to as myths than you should over hearing the beliefs of African tribesmen and Navajo medicine men referred to in that way.
Really, grow up, and get the hell over yourselves. If you want to continue believing stories that have no more facts to back them up than anyone else's unprovable stories, then you might want to grow some thicker skin while you're at it. Or at least shut up about it all.
01/02/09
Not to be a stickler, but the Bible has shown to be fairly accurate history, and archeology has supported much of it as well. We'll never know about the "magic" stuff, that's why they call it faith.
01/01/09
THIS IS A DISASTER!!!!1!11!
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
But then again, a fair amount of Protestants don't consider Catholics as Christians. Because they apparently worship the saints. Hm... I'm an atheist now, but I don't ever remember worshiping saints in my Roman Catholic childhood.
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
(yay)
Happy New Year, io9 and many many more!
:D
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
But believing in religion itself? Or in god itself as a fundamental spiritual force? That's not quite the same thing. It's simply believing in another reality, different than this one. Which is also a belief unprovable, and unscientific in principle.
BUT on the one hand, one believes that one's religion is right because of the sheer number of people it's had a positive effect on. And because of the effect as a whole. There are marked differences between healthy spiritual beliefs and those used for predatory and parasitic purposes, even if the fundamental kind of faith you have is the same.
01/01/09
I'm pretty sure there are Christians who are jerks...and there are Jews who are jerks, and Muslims who are jerks, and there are atheist and agnostic jerks as well - but should we really go around categorizing the whole because of the few (or even the many?) Until every single Christian tells you that you're going to hell for not being like them, then the blanket statement is false, and since I'm a Christian who never tells anyone they're going to hell for their beliefs or nonbeliefs, the blanket statement will never be true. So, relax...
And it goes for the other side too - if you believe in something, great, fantastic - but keep your damn views out of everyone else's life. Trying to change folks minds about beliefs/non-beliefs is like telling them their shoes are ugly. They made their choices, just like you did. Part of my faith is based on the acknowledgment that I could be completely wrong - as my favorite author and renowned atheist, Douglas Adams, once wrote: "Proof denies Faith." It's one thing to think you're right, to believe you're right, but none of us know with any certainty (except for my dog, and he's not telling, but he did die once and was brought back by the vets, so I'm pretty sure he knows.)
Does the Christian-bashing bother me? Yes and No - no, it doesn't because some of it is valid, some of it is funny, and all of it is the opinion of the authors. If it bugged me, I'd skip that author or the site altogether. I don't need my beliefs validated by other's opinions, and I don't let others opinions invalidate my beliefs.
The part that does bother me is that most of the Christian-bashing that goes on is really Catholic-bashing (Inquisitions, Crusades, etc.) Can't us Protestants get some mud slung our way? Come on, guys, I'm Lutheran - like the Nazis! This is the freaking internet, is there NO ONE willing to call me a Nazi without actually knowing me? Sheesh!
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
Hitler (natch)
Mussolini
Tojo
Franco
Groucho
Beppo
Torquemada
Martin Luther
Martin Lawrence
That broad who wrote Twilight
Billy May
George Lucas
Frank Miller
Mr. Dwyer, my high school Chemistry teacher
Josh Wimmer
and your mom
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
Except for the Episcopalians, those guys are just FREAKS!
01/01/09
The Episcopalians are basically one step past the Unitarians at this point. I mean, they call themselves "Whiskeypalians" (hic!), think pretty much any religion is a-okay (except maybe Southern Baptists), accept divorce, encourage birth control, have women and gay and lesbian priests and bishops.
Really, the only mortal sin for Episcopalians is using the wrong fork at dinner. Outside in, people!
Why, yes, I may have just had some of the champagne left over from last night, why do you ask?
P.S. c0dek is NOT worse than the Twilight broad.
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
With our powers combined, this blog will become CAPTAIN PLANET!!!! :0
Oh, wait. That's all about the environment and global warming and stuff. Hm... I sense another can of worms coming.
But seriously, RAH. Where would we be without you? You're our token conservative star commenter. io9 would feel so empty with you gone. :(
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
Everything's closed today.
Chinese New Year-- now that is a party. Bring the dragons n' firecrackers n' buffets n' karaoke, and you can keep this "Quiet Thursday '09" BS.
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
[/spoiled American]
01/01/09
01/01/09
Happy cows come from California, remember.
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
(And now, 30 irate comments from members of the Flat Earth Society...)
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
Wait.
01/01/09
Next thing you'll be telling me that people with different political beliefs like the same tv shows as me. Or posting about franchises that are only marginally science fiction.
01/01/09
01/01/09
What a bigot!!
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
01/01/09
There is no escape.
Weep for us, o world, weep for us the tiny the doomed microcommenters. 2009 CE shall be our final year.
01/01/09
Oh, and the mutants, the zombies, the aliens.....
01/01/09
If this was blog about religion or the lack thereof, then I wouldn't say anything. If I was a political blog and they were taking swipes at one party or another, I wouldn't say anything. But this is a sci-fi blog. Why go out of your way to marginalize a group of your readers? Doesn't make sense.
01/01/09
01/01/09