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Tue Dec 8
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So, when might we see episodes of Life On Mars that we might have missed? I missed the second half of the first two episodes because my DVR is a stupid machine that switched over to another show halfway through, which it isn't supposed to do.
It is nearly impossible to exist on the web and not get stories spoiled.
When we could talk of 'spoiling a film,' we didn't need a specific word until recently. Previously, the worst chance was for a comment around the hypothetical water cooler. However, it was pretty much a given that we all had the same level of access to the same media.
That's been slowly becoming less true, partially because of media differentiation, but also because the water cooler is getting bigger. Add in how quickly that the internet can disperse a leaked piece of info.
At a certain point I had to realize that running into spoilers for my favorite shows is bound to happen on the internet. I'm going to read something, or some idiot on LiveJournal is going to have an icon, or I'll link somewhere and figure out something. It might not be directly stated, but it often doesn't have to be.
Now, while my reaction is to try harder to avoid spoilers, I can see how an equally reasonable reaction would be the opposite. Unless I see show X at time Y, the ending is likely to be ruined for me. Therefore, I ruin the ending on my own terms, which diminishes the power of the ending, but gives me a sense of control over the situation.
That, and a very monkey sense of gossip, is what I think the obsession with spoilers comes down to.
I love spoilers and rarely watch or read anything I don't have a good notion about beforehand. I wait until seasons are over and rent dvd's usually, too, instead of following a show. I like knowing the plot ahead of time, because it lets me pay more attention to how they made it work. If the show/comic/movie/book can make me forget that I already know some of what's coming, then I know for sure it's been made very well.
I also hate surprise parties too, though. So don't listen to me.
Overall I think whether reviewers need to know spoilers depends on different factors. If, as an example, at the end of last night's 'Galactica' (after Tigh proclaimed that Ellen was the fifth) they added a ten-second scene where one William Adama was secretly ambushed in his quarters and shot by another William Adama would that change your overall opinion of the episode? If continuity within the episode were affected I could understand, i.e. if they cut the scene out where Starbuck finds her supposed corpse but left in the scene where she burns it. But I'm not sure a reviewer has to be shown absolutely everything every time.
I guess I'm asking if, in this case, a reviewer's opinion of this episode would be any different if they hadn't known, and couldn't tell, the producers left something out?
BTW Kara only thinks she found her 'own' corpse, and Tigh only thinks that Ellen is one of the final five. I still think Tigh and the other three are a different species of Cylons and have no connection to the 'real' final five or the original twelve (basically being used as red herrings for the story).
First of all, to the doubters, it's Ellen. Ron Moore has made that perfectly clear: [tinyurl.com]
And I think it was the best choice, not as a cheap shocker, but for the story as a whole. It looks like we're about to go into a weird, "what the hell is going on" back story we're about robots who live for thousands of years. A story like that can easily lack emotion. Putting a real, human relationship in the mix adds a lot of depth.
I actually think this would have worked best as a surprise, particularly after Dee's suicide. But I don't think it really was one to anyone who, like me, took the Last Supper picture seriously. I mean, look at it now, without the paranoid eyes. It's obvious.
"Spoilers are, or at the very least, can be, a dress rehearsal for the audience in terms of how they deal with a story..."
Have there been that many cases of that? Yikes. Not that it couldn't be useful, but art direction by fanboy reaction isn't a lot more appealing than art direction by studio head.
I agree with you on the purpose of spoilers, and while the 'reveal' was anti-climatic, it certainly didn't 'ruin' the episode. Besides, even with Ellen being the fifth, what the hell is Starbuck?
"If we end up with a world full of well-planned, well-written stories that offer plot that stands up to consideration and more than just a moment's stunned silence, then surely that's a good thing, right...?"
Well, "good" is relative. I mean, for some people, that would suck.
it's not so much M. Night that's focused on the twist ending, it's the same kind of people that think the last cylon reveal ruined the whole episode because it didn't meet their 'ta-tah!' expectation. They want to find a twist to beat the one felt Sixth Sense. It's probably never gonna happen.
Film making isn't about twists, and M Night's films haven't been setups for a final twist.
Perhaps the studios should also be sending screeners missing the last minute, so that bloggers can review the value of a work not on shocking twists, but drama, writing, directing, acting, etc. All the craftmanship that goes into making a film.
focus on twists and ta-tah emotions is more of a sport / reality-tv frame of mind, imho.
@frederic: "Film making isn't about twists, and M Night's films haven't been setups for a final twist."
Maybe they weren't before, but after the first couple films that's all anyone really watched them for. And after the first couple films, they started to be disappointed in the endings.
I recall something I read very recently, which was that the writer and director of The Usual Suspects said that they realized the film needed to be about more than just the ending. Basically, it needed to be a solid film even _after_ you'd watched it several times and knew (or at least thought you knew) what was really happening.
I'm so happy to see Peter David still writing, especially writing in the universe he knows so incredibly well.
When I was completely entrenched in TNG and DS9 books, Peter David's books were always the first ones I sought out - the man knows how to bring the characters to life in a way that in some cases they weren't able to even on screen, and brought an element of humor and light-heartedness even to serious action sequences that I think most of the other regular Trek authors missed.
Seriously - if you guys are fans of Trek books, definitely make a beeline for David's work.
@fistrodisco: Well, my first response to why you may not understand why he's well regarded is the natural question: "have you actually read him?"
If the answer is no, then I guess that explains why you won't. If the answer is yes, maybe weighing in with more than an empty snark might be in order?
@Dunny0, Team T/A: I think so - I admit that Before Dishonor was pretty rough, but I think he might be better when he's working within the framework of a set of characters that he knows well and doesn't have a ton of room to work with. Try some of his earlier books if you don't like TNF or his newer stuff?
Yeah, how did they get there? I mean, even the Delta Quadrant was still in our galaxy. How did they get to another galaxy? That's sort out of the realm of possibility of warp drive - is it not?
04/01/09
04/01/09
01/18/09
When we could talk of 'spoiling a film,' we didn't need a specific word until recently. Previously, the worst chance was for a comment around the hypothetical water cooler. However, it was pretty much a given that we all had the same level of access to the same media.
That's been slowly becoming less true, partially because of media differentiation, but also because the water cooler is getting bigger. Add in how quickly that the internet can disperse a leaked piece of info.
At a certain point I had to realize that running into spoilers for my favorite shows is bound to happen on the internet. I'm going to read something, or some idiot on LiveJournal is going to have an icon, or I'll link somewhere and figure out something. It might not be directly stated, but it often doesn't have to be.
Now, while my reaction is to try harder to avoid spoilers, I can see how an equally reasonable reaction would be the opposite. Unless I see show X at time Y, the ending is likely to be ruined for me. Therefore, I ruin the ending on my own terms, which diminishes the power of the ending, but gives me a sense of control over the situation.
That, and a very monkey sense of gossip, is what I think the obsession with spoilers comes down to.
01/17/09
I also hate surprise parties too, though. So don't listen to me.
01/17/09
I guess I'm asking if, in this case, a reviewer's opinion of this episode would be any different if they hadn't known, and couldn't tell, the producers left something out?
BTW Kara only thinks she found her 'own' corpse, and Tigh only thinks that Ellen is one of the final five. I still think Tigh and the other three are a different species of Cylons and have no connection to the 'real' final five or the original twelve (basically being used as red herrings for the story).
01/17/09
01/17/09
And I think it was the best choice, not as a cheap shocker, but for the story as a whole. It looks like we're about to go into a weird, "what the hell is going on" back story we're about robots who live for thousands of years. A story like that can easily lack emotion. Putting a real, human relationship in the mix adds a lot of depth.
I actually think this would have worked best as a surprise, particularly after Dee's suicide. But I don't think it really was one to anyone who, like me, took the Last Supper picture seriously. I mean, look at it now, without the paranoid eyes. It's obvious.
01/17/09
01/17/09
I don't know, but I assume that's what he was getting at.
01/17/09
01/17/09
Have there been that many cases of that? Yikes. Not that it couldn't be useful, but art direction by fanboy reaction isn't a lot more appealing than art direction by studio head.
01/17/09
01/17/09
Well, "good" is relative. I mean, for some people, that would suck.
01/17/09
01/17/09
01/17/09
Film making isn't about twists, and M Night's films haven't been setups for a final twist.
Perhaps the studios should also be sending screeners missing the last minute, so that bloggers can review the value of a work not on shocking twists, but drama, writing, directing, acting, etc. All the craftmanship that goes into making a film.
focus on twists and ta-tah emotions is more of a sport / reality-tv frame of mind, imho.
01/17/09
"Film making isn't about twists, and M Night's films haven't been setups for a final twist."
Maybe they weren't before, but after the first couple films that's all anyone really watched them for. And after the first couple films, they started to be disappointed in the endings.
I recall something I read very recently, which was that the writer and director of The Usual Suspects said that they realized the film needed to be about more than just the ending. Basically, it needed to be a solid film even _after_ you'd watched it several times and knew (or at least thought you knew) what was really happening.
12/02/08
When I was completely entrenched in TNG and DS9 books, Peter David's books were always the first ones I sought out - the man knows how to bring the characters to life in a way that in some cases they weren't able to even on screen, and brought an element of humor and light-heartedness even to serious action sequences that I think most of the other regular Trek authors missed.
Seriously - if you guys are fans of Trek books, definitely make a beeline for David's work.
12/02/08
Oh, now you realize, really?
I'll never understand how this writer is so well regarded.
12/02/08
If the answer is no, then I guess that explains why you won't. If the answer is yes, maybe weighing in with more than an empty snark might be in order?
12/02/08
I now only hold on to the book on the off chance that he ever comes to town again to do a signing - just so I can ask him, in person, for a refund.
That book pretty much put me off Trek books entirely.
Suffice to say, I'm a bit shocked that he's managed to go twenty something books in this line... Are they actually that good?
12/02/08
12/02/08
12/03/08
12/03/08