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San Francisco, 12:30 AM
Fri Dec 18
25 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of ceti ceti
    12/12/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Ted Rall detailed a far more likely scenario of Gore winning a disputed election given the corporate forces arrayed against him from the start: [www.commondreams.org]

    Obama is already showing how the Democrats play at being the B-Team of American Imperialism, only really serving to soften the edges around outright Republican fascism.

    Of course it couldn't have been as bad as Bush which by most estimates has been one of the worst presidents in American history and perhaps the one to finally knock over the house of cards of the American Empire.
     Reply
    Bootknife-Jackson promoted this comment ceti was starred ceti was unstarred
    Image of Bootknife-Jackson Bootknife-Jackson
    12/13/09

    @ceti: oof...i must be tired, i read that as "Ted Raimi detailed a far more likely scenario of Gore winning a disputed election given the corporate forces arrayed against him from the start..."
     Reply
    Bootknife-Jackson was starred Bootknife-Jackson was unstarred
    Image of Klebert L. Hall Klebert L. Hall
    12/12/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    "and Hurricane Katrina has a less disastrous outcome"

    Absurdly unlikely.
    -Kle.
     Reply
    Klebert L. Hall was starred Klebert L. Hall was unstarred
    Image of nexialist nexialist
    12/12/09

    @Klebert L. Hall: i beg to differ. since disasters are socially constructed occasions, and the likelihood is high that the operability of FEMA under a Gore administration would be at James Lee Witt levels, the institutional involvement during Katrina is likely to have been more effective than in "our" reality. "Brownie" would not have been head of FEMA, and Chertoff would not have been head of DHS. for the facts, just read "Failure of Initiative" by the select bipartisan committee.
     Reply
    ParryLost promoted this comment nexialist was starred nexialist was unstarred
    Image of Klebert L. Hall Klebert L. Hall
    12/13/09

    @nexialist:

    FEMA response was actually at least average, if not superior, in the Katrina crisis. Almost all the major response failures were at the State level, not the Federal. From the document to which you refer: "The Select Committee identified failures at all levels of government".

    I know this isn't the popular myth, but it's simply true. Compare to the FEMA response to the midwest flooding of the 1990s, for example.

    The biggest flaw in your reasoning is that you are subscribing to "big man theory', the idea that successes and failures are best ascribed to the person at the top of the hierarchy. The failures were not generally only failures of leadership, they were also (and dominantly) systemic failures.

    Let's just pretend that the President actually has the power to make all of the changes that would have been required to fix the problems identified with hindsight (he doesn't, of course - most of these changes would need to be made by Congress).

    Without some sort of magical foresight that a major hurricane would hit New Orleans during his presidency, why would Al Gore have decided to undertake a huge effort to increase disaster-response intercommunications, funding, pre-deployment, doctrine, and engineering in and around New Orleans?

    The government really only takes a major interest in local affairs after a disaster, not before.

    There is no reason to think that a different President would have decided to focus on New Orleans' hurricane preparedness problems as a national priority. Everyone knows this sort of thing periodically happens there, but generally, Presidents just gamble that it won't happen during their administration. It's not as if the rest of the country gives enough of a damn to want to spend a lot of their money on it, after all.

    If a President were going to decide to invest heavily in local disaster prevention/preparedness they'd be much more likely to invest in the California Wildfire problem. New Orleans only gets wrecked about every 75 years; California burns at least once a year like clockwork. Besides, California fires affect way, way, more rich people - they're much higher priorities in D.C. than poor folks on the Delta.
    -Kle.
     Reply
    Klebert L. Hall was starred Klebert L. Hall was unstarred
    Image of NotChoinski NotChoinski
    12/12/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Scarier Alternate Alternate: Gore dies in the Pentagon on 9/11 and Lieberman becomes President.
     Reply
    NotChoinski was starred NotChoinski was unstarred
    Image of Batmanuel Batmanuel
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    For most of this decade, I've had a sneaking suspicion that we're living in the evil Mirror Universe timeline where everything went horribly wrong, so I got a kick out of this article.
     Reply
    Bootknife-Jackson promoted this comment Batmanuel was starred Batmanuel was unstarred
    Image of Bootknife-Jackson Bootknife-Jackson
    12/13/09

    @Batmanuel: well, that explains why i've had uncharacteristic faicial hair and thigh-high boots on for the past ten years... but i'm still curious about the corset....
     Reply
    Bootknife-Jackson was starred Bootknife-Jackson was unstarred
    Image of Platypus Man Platypus Man
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    I apologize for any non-US people, but this made me think of this clip from SNL from a few years ago. -- [www.hulu.com]
     Reply
    Edited by Platypus Man at 12/11/09 8:38 PM Platypus Man was starred Platypus Man was unstarred
    Image of EBone EBone
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    I feel dumber for having read the Newsweek article.
     Reply
    EBone was starred EBone was unstarred
    Image of Dresan Dresan
    12/11/09

    @EBone: Agreed. Don't know if they changed owners or what but everything in that magazine is dumbed down and pretty biased towards one thing or the other.
     Reply
    Dresan was starred Dresan was unstarred
    Image of NixNada NixNada
    12/11/09

    @Dresan: I preferred the oldsweek.
     Reply
    Dresan promoted this comment NixNada was starred NixNada was unstarred
    Image of Bootknife-Jackson Bootknife-Jackson
    12/13/09

    @EBone: like every newsweek article
     Reply
    Bootknife-Jackson was starred Bootknife-Jackson was unstarred
    Image of Polymath Polymath
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Anyone else read the actual article?

    Why would Gore strike Afghanistan again? How would a wetlands project prevent Katrina?

    Is it just me or does anyone else think that these two events would still have happened regardless of who sat in the Oval Office?
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye promoted this comment Polymath was starred Polymath was unstarred
    Image of Barnabus Barnabus
    12/11/09

    @Polymath: I don't believe that either 9/11 or the failure of the levees in New Orleans were inevitable, unforeseeable, or unpreventable. Both could have been prevented or mitigated. Whether the fault was in the Oval Office or elsewhere is a discussion for another blog entirely.

    I personally prefer my What If...? stories to be in the mode of What If Spider Man Joined the Fantastic Four?
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye promoted this comment Edited by Barnabus at 12/11/09 4:18 PM Barnabus was starred Barnabus was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    @Barnabus: Didn't he do that for a day?

    Except he had to wear a paper bag over his head cause the F4 didn't have any masks?

    And I think Johnny put a 'kick me' sign on his back...
     Reply
    Edited by omgwtflolbbqbye at 12/11/09 5:02 PM omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    oops
     Reply
    Edited by omgwtflolbbqbye at 12/11/09 6:23 PM omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    @omgwtflolbbqbye:
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of leicester leicester
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    But what would he do about the glaciers threatening our northern borders? Not to mention the hordes of illegal Canadian refugees!
     Reply
    leicester was starred leicester was unstarred
    Image of Darklighter Darklighter
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Didn't SNL do this like three years ago?
     Reply
    Darklighter was starred Darklighter was unstarred
    Image of phoghat phoghat
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    So Lieberman's a douche. Tell me something I don't know.
     Reply
    phoghat was starred phoghat was unstarred
    Image of dry-roasted-peanuts dry-roasted-peanuts
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    He'd certainly have less money...
     Reply
    dry-roasted-peanuts was starred dry-roasted-peanuts was unstarred
    Image of Barnabus Barnabus
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Where's the fictional history of Ron Paul's presidency? Now THAT would be some juicy reading.
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye promoted this comment Barnabus was starred Barnabus was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    @Barnabus: Or Perot?
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of Barnabus Barnabus
    12/11/09

    @omgwtflolbbqbye: Oh my God. The state of the union speeches would be EPIC.
     Reply
    Barnabus was starred Barnabus was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    @Barnabus: I tried looking for the SNL presidential debate skits with Carvey's Perot but this was the closet thing on youtube that NBC didn't pull (i'm guessing)

    Still though, classic impression and Phil Hartman easily compensates.
     Reply
    Edited by omgwtflolbbqbye at 12/11/09 5:05 PM omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of Daumier Daumier
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Reminds me of one of my favorite six word short stories:

    Osama’s time machine: President Gore concerned.

    - Charles Stross
     Reply
    EndangeredRed promoted this comment Daumier was starred Daumier was unstarred
    Image of hdgotham hdgotham
    12/11/09

    @Daumier: That was the best story I've ever read. Funny and tragic at the same time.
     Reply
    Dresan promoted this comment Edited by hdgotham at 12/11/09 2:53 PM hdgotham was starred hdgotham was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    It would have been very boring and Gore would never have gained the pop culture celebrity image he somehow cultivated now.
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of Brian Fowler Brian Fowler
    12/11/09

    @omgwtflolbbqbye:

    It may have been boring, but a lot of American soldiers and Iraqis would still be alive today. Boring Presidencies are scandalously underrated.

    I doubt a pre-emptive strike on Afghanistan (sp?) would have prevented 9/11. As I think I understand it, most of the hijackers were already in the country at this time. 9/11 would only have been prevented by domestic intelligence, not the army going abroad.
     Reply
    omgwtflolbbqbye promoted this comment Brian Fowler was starred Brian Fowler was unstarred
    Image of omgwtflolbbqbye omgwtflolbbqbye
    12/11/09

    @Brian Fowler: I think you were reading a little too much into my comment...
     Reply
    Edited by omgwtflolbbqbye at 12/11/09 5:18 PM omgwtflolbbqbye was starred omgwtflolbbqbye was unstarred
    Image of Brian Fowler Brian Fowler
    12/11/09

    @omgwtflolbbqbye: Only the first half was in respose to your comment, to be fair. The second half was my response to the thinking a preemptive strike in Afghanistan could have prevented 9/11. Sorry if I was unclear.
     Reply
    Brian Fowler was starred Brian Fowler was unstarred
    Image of pfc.joker pfc.joker
    12/11/09

    In reply to An Alternate History of the Decade, Starring President Al Gore
    Being spared An Inconvenient Truth would have made his victory so worth it, screw the rest of it, getting 2 hours of life back make me wish this alternative history had come true.
     Reply
    Moff promoted this comment pfc.joker was starred pfc.joker was unstarred
    Image of cylon_conspiracy cylon_conspiracy
    12/11/09

    @pfc.joker: I feel your pain. Wait, that was his boss's line.
     Reply
    cylon_conspiracy was starred cylon_conspiracy was unstarred
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