Science fiction covers a broad base. You can totally lack an understanding of science but appreciate science fiction. Hell, it probably helps to have a total lack of understanding of science, given a lot of the science fiction out there.

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@solidbrassfasteners: Not perfectly understanding science, or having fun with science is one thing. That's what a sci-fi site should be, and Io9 is great at that.

But pervasive and PURPOSEFUL ignorance on a topic? Or disregarding scientific principles? Willful ignorance rooted in your own importance? At heart, one of the two things that makes science fiction is SCIENCE. You can't avoid that.

The actual window to do anything significant about climate change is closing, and it's important that we don't allow people to distort what's really happening to this globe with their own self-important noodlings.

Would it surprise you to know that every single military and military intelligence organization in the world predicts that the next century will be absolutely DOMINATED by the effects of climate change? And each has an elaborate series of contingency plans for wars that will result when millions are displaced, or regular weather patterns fail. These are the most hard-nosed, practical people on earth. It's difficult to dismiss them the way you'd dismiss some political figure.

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It's very easy for me to dismiss even "the most hard-nosed, practical people on earth." Mostly because they tried to invent a gay bomb. But that's neither here nor there, because I haven't disputed whether or not there may be something happening with the climate.

I just think we don't know what the fuck is going on, because quite frankly, we don't. Scientists don't understand fully what's happening, and they don't know the ramifications of their actions. I mentioned a plan to paint roofs white; I wasn't joking when I suggested this could fuck up the feedback cycle and cause another ice age.

Questioning the degree to which humans have contributed to climate change isn't eschewing all science. It's not purposeful ignorance on the topic.

I can go toe to toe with you on earth sciences. Actually, given that you said, "I don't even KNOW science" about a month ago in the Island Sinks Into the Ocean thread, there's no doubt in my mind that you're as willfully ignorant as the people you want to kick out of here.

Hell, in that thread you cried global warming, when the sinking (called "subsidence") was actually due to a very common geologic process.

Hey, look, now you know science!

Oh, and Aaron Roberts, stop helping.

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Science is made by the vast majority of scientists experimenting, verifying results and then agreeing on action. Since I'm not a scientists in that field, and since all human knowledge isn't based on individual empiricism but in fact on simple transmission of information, as long as the vast majority of evidence and scientific belief is affirming.

And since the field of research is still effectively less than a half-century old, let's say that we're overestimating man's effect on the environment. Even if our actions have say... 40% less impact on the environment than what we're estimating now, it's impossible to say that we're having NO effect. In fact, it's almost idiotic to say that we're having no effect considering that our industrial actions are changing the chemical composition of the ENTIRE atmosphere and the ENTIRE ocean.

And in that thread I recall saying that just because there is more than one cause for a particular event doesn't invalidate either one. The island would be sinking BOTH because the sea level is slowly rising and maybe it's subsiding into the ocean.

@Konman72: That's idiotic. You link me to two sites that are clearly politically motivated, and a couple of links that refer to a decade-old petition comprised of a high number of people with "academic degrees"? Yeeeeeeah.... this is quality research, right there.

Ugh. I'm not getting into this. This will go on all day.

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I agree 100% with that line, Agent Smith was just keeping shit real.

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