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San Francisco, 4:13 AM
Sat Nov 21
26 posts in the last 24 hours
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10/14/09
Well, okay, it's more like the fans taking this filler technobabble and pretending it was hard science that annoys me. Never live with a Trekker whose first Trek was TNG. It is as a fake technobabble religion onto them.
10/14/09
These shows were still worth watching, even if the reason for watching them was a bit different than the reason I read a lot of the SF books I do.
My advice to Mr. Stross is to teach by example and leave it at that. I'm sure he's already writing the kind of fiction he would also like to read, and his fans love him for that.
But sweeping statements about the dismal state of science fiction TV just make him sound crotchety. I mean, it's TV, made for a mass audience who might not otherwise enjoy science fiction. There's no sense getting bent out of shape about it.
10/14/09
10/14/09
It's true it's important seeing how the human condition reacts to new situations and tech, but isn't it just as important to establish the situation AND the tech in science fiction? The situation and tech influence the past, present and future of a character, particularly when it's fleshed out in a detailed and provocative manner.
A great example would be Mass Effect. Many of you may disagree, but Mass Effect established a *massive* universe explaining the history of the setting as well as the functionality of all the tech constantly being babbled on about.
I think Stross sets up a bit of a false dichotomy and it show in that script outline. Trek tech(say that a few times) usually seemed trite and overly simplified which detracted from my opinion of the shows. Don't get me wrong, I still consider TNG one of the best shows ever, but the would have improved on the show in certain areas.
10/14/09
First, that's more or less slapping Stross in the face, and its not the only episode of TNG (or Trek as a whole) that is like that. Some of the most loved episodes of all the series have a similar tone.
Second, I never understood why the satellite chose Picard (old man) over a younger crew member, but I suspect the answer is found somewhere between acting ability, cast schedule, and acting ability.
10/14/09
I still agree with him that good Sci-Fi shows and literature need to show implications like these, but his generalized attack against Star Trek might not hold water in everyone's eyes (though personally, a lot of Star Trek technobabble can get annoying...).
10/14/09
10/14/09
10/14/09
Where people discover /invent new tech or new ideas to either save mankind or send them into deep space .
You get my point , I understand that tech -babble is a little much for some
people,
But thought or the idea intrigues others.
10/14/09
That and with all due respect to Stross for the work he's delivered and the awards he's won, I find his books incredibly forgettable and not nearly as engaging as the work he's so adamantly opposed to.
10/14/09
PICARD: Pardon?
LAFORGE: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treadle.
PICARD: I don't understand what you're saying.
LAFORGE: ONE OF THE CROSS BEAMS HAS GONE OUT ASKEW ON THE TREADLE.
10/14/09
10/14/09
10/14/09
Our TWO chief weapons are fear, surprise, and a fanatical devotion to the tenets of KahLess...
Amongst our weapons are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, a fanatical devotion to the tenets of Kahless, bat'leths, spirit gum, and ill-explained Romulan ships...
We'll come in again.
10/14/09
So far, by the way, Stargate Universe has shown some promise in this direction. At least they've recognized that space travel can be inherently interesting. You don't need to make it the equivalent of the drive between the homes of Desperate Housewives.
10/14/09
I'm liking the SGU show, but really? The whole kino-button pushing thing should have been addressed. If nothing more than Eli saying, "Oh crap, we shoulda done that! Sorry about your Dad dying and all..."
That would have made for some crazy tension and the fact that no matter how brilliant a boffin can be, they're bound to miss something.
10/14/09
10/14/09
10/14/09
I'd as why.
"Because it's impossible."
And I would answer:
"It's science FICTION. Stuff we haven't invented yet and may never invent."
We never did find any common ground there.
She also hated the idea of mutants with superpowers. She called it 'ridiculous' - the idea of humans mutating from something and being strong or fast or whatever.
But she was a huge fan of 'Dune' - where humans eat a spice and mutate into a being that can fold space.
I never pointed that out. I didn't want to poke the volcano. :)
10/14/09
The way the shows constantly reference and refer to medieval and roman periods drives it home: the writers are convinced that people don't change as time periods change. Which is patently ridiculous.
10/14/09
10/14/09
The fact that you have people acting utterly normal in the face of technology would be just as true then as it is now, and was 100 years ago.
10/14/09
A large chunk of the earliest documents found are accounting records. That's right. Boring as heck inventories, business transactions (barter and later monetary-based sales and purchases), loans, contracts, etc. There's even complaints about the bureaucracy, lazy coworkers, and auditors. (Is it a coincidence one of the Sumerian words for "auditor" is that used for "demon"?) There are loads of Ancient Egyptian letters with essentially the same concerns as people have today.
And what was one of the things Queen Victoria use the newly invented telegraph for when she went to France? To check on the kids back home.
The problem with Star Trek as illustrated by Ron Moore is that of lazy writers filling out a formula by route. I had suspected as much; this admission just confirmed it.
10/14/09
The people on BSG pretty much act like people today do - and that was LONG ago. In a solar system nearby. :)
10/14/09
10/14/09
Isn't it better to just reverse the polarity and move on to the reasons for doing it - namely the big snarling alien with the glowing head, and why he's upset that we are building things on his nesting planet?
10/14/09
However, I disagree that "science fiction is reduced to mere set dressing" in current "science fiction" (but, I'm not bothered by it, if it is-- future tech is entertaining, whether or not it's incidental to the story).
Science fiction is there to facilitate scenarios that wouldn't happen in other settings-- Like Dr. Who for example-- you wouldn't be able to have historical figures alongside aliens without time-travel or alternate dimensions. Sure, the science may not be factually based, but it makes for interesting storytelling in the right hands.
The part I do have agree with is Techno-gibberish. I was always bothered by Star Trek's Teching-tech talk. But that has nothing to do with the deteriorating state of science fiction, that has to do with using the gibberish as a crutch; to mask poor writing with a deus ex machina.
To go back to Dr. Who, first of all, that show never took itself as seriously as Star Trek, so I don't mind those writers using deus ex machina. Plus, the Doctor doesn't use a whole lot of Technogiberish, he chalks a lot of stuff up to "timey-wimey" stuff because he knows it would all just sound like gibberish to the silly humans.
Not that you asked for my two cents, but there they are.
10/14/09
10/15/09
10/14/09
During the Renaissance, I'm sure the printing press was novel...for a couple of days. Then books started to flood the marketplace and people forgot the tech and looked forward to the results -- being able to read books that weren't copied by hand. The same is true today: the latest OS from Microsoft or Apple makes the news for about a week and then the novelty wears off as people play around with the tech and find its limits. People don't care about the tech, they care about what they can do with the tech.
Finally, I've always admired the system of collaboration between scientific advisers and writers developed by Star Trek. It meant the producers of Star Trek could hire writers who understood the medium of television and could tell a good story but they didn't have to have PhDs in quantum physics.
10/14/09
10/14/09
My main argument with Stoss is his idea that the characters in a series like Star Trek should be substantially different from people today. Certainly their are differences between a man of 1600 and a man from 2009 such as manners, language, and mode of dress but those are superficial differences. Humans from 1600, 2000, and 2300 are all driven by the same basic motivations: food, shelter, procreation, health, pleasure, and emotional/spiritual fulfillment.
10/14/09
10/14/09
This feller surely don't get it, do he?
I mean, the worst video sciffy is the stuff that does what he thinks is ideal.
If course Trek just uses tech as window dressing, that's entirely the point: in the Star Trek universe, the future is friendly and familiar, with magickal TECHNOLOGY that delivers everything we want and need and makes us gods. Trek was at its worst when it was trying to examine the implications of the tech (it tended to get pretty preachy, IMO), and at its best when examining broader human issues made safer by being surrounded by that tech-buffer. You want to discuss interracial sex, racism, socialism and the stupidity of war in the 1960s? You better have the folks wearing togas, painted half-n-half, and marching into execution chambers on order of a computer. You want crap? Have Paris devolve into a mudpuppy because he went past Warp Infinity.
Just sayin', is all.