This is my first comment on this site but I've been coming here for a while now. This blog relates to something I've been thinking a lot about lately and I was hoping I could ask about it here. It seems like a lot of writers come here.
I have a very large imagination. Even more so when I've been smoking weed. Its legal in CA and I take it for medical reasons but the Deep Deep thinking I also get from it is a nice bonus.
I've come up with maybe five really good idea's that could be made into pretty good books if a skilled writer had the same idea's.
But I'm no writer.
The main question I have is how do writers divide their minds up into different personalities for each character so that every character doesn't just sound like the writer him/herself?
I read reviews of bad books on amazon and the main complaint besides spelling and bad sentence structure's that make no sense is that the author was just writing about what he would do in the situation he was writing about. Its usually the self published books with 1 - 1 and a half stars.
How do skilled writers avoid this? When I think of it I wonder if the writers just think of people they know/knew really well and try to put them into the characters in someways. I don't know. That was my theory on it.
I'm just trying to learn from other peoples mistakes before I do anything and this seemed like a good place to ask.
@sschmitt2276: You should start writing one of your ideas and see what happens, you could end up surprising yourself and be halfway decent at it.
Your question is both good and hard to answer since everyone has their own style of writing. I don't have a problem infusing a bit of personality into my character from people that I have known but it stops there, and it helps solve a very specific purpose.
@howardhwen001: outlines only get you so far. That spear carrier could seem to be carrying a lot of weight in the outline but once you get into the actual scenes, just stands there like a piece of furniture. Or, the other case could be they are redundant. They seemed necessary in the outline but they end up just shadowing another character or you realize half way through the book that someone else more interesting and already developed is already there and with a little tweaking, could fill the same shoes.
@howardhwen001: An outline doesn't necessarily reveal the problem - a character may seem great, but when you actually write in full, he or she may just seem too cardboard, no matter how well he or she serves the story.
There was a part in a game called Baten Kaitos where the boring angsty main character and his party kept getting cut off because one of them was working with the enemy. The mole was the main character: instant depth plus a mindfuck. If all else fails, confuse the shit out of your audience (Hi Lost) if you do it right, a mistake becomes historic storytelling.
@cletar: Realizing the character doesn't work is probably the hardest part. It isn't easy to take an honest look at your work and realize that you've screwed up.
The question and answers are illuminating, but I'd also be interested in the thought processes when an author or creator is unexpectedly forced to eliminate a favourite or important character due to outside factors, such as JMS having to alter the 'Babylon 5' story arc when the actor portraying Sinclair departed.
@charliejane: Just out of curiosity, how many authors were asked to give an answer to this question (no names required), how many responded at all, how many responded "Not interested", "I don't have the time", "I'm really interested, but I don't have the time", "I don't care about my characters", "My dog ate your question"?
I haven't read any of these authors (for shame!) and I'm interested to see how their comments (and my subjective 'liking' of the authors, based on their comments) actually translates in to liking their work (and their characters), when I do.
BTW Was the question phrased with a gender orientation? The first thing I thought when I saw the strapline "She's dull, or He doesn't play well with others.", was James Cameron's (from Walter Hill) "You write dialogue for a guy and then change the name" about writing strong, interesting (on the screen?) female characters versus 'Hollywood handbags' [at [www.newyorker.com] (half way down starting "Hollywood..."), from [io9.com] ].
Pretty much all of his successful, resonant ("dollars is votes") characters (Terminator, Sarah Connor) are quintessentially 'dull' and definitely 'don't play well with others'.
Is this just a movie thing or do authors like to 'switcheroo' too, when the going gets tough?
@SJ_Edwards:
Of course, Orson Scott Card described Cameron as "cruel, selfish and unkind to all" [en.wikipedia.org] , how does this translate to authors?
@SJ_Edwards: Actually every single author I asked to help me out on this question got back to me. Which was really nice. The "she's dull, he doesn't play well with others" thing was just me trying to say it could be a male or female character having this problem.....
@Charlie Jane Anders: Thanks!
Another good reason to read these authors :)
[Still like to know if they'd ever used a gender switch 'as', or 'as the start of' the solution to this 'problem'.
Not just to switchback the reader's preconceptions and expectations of the character, but their own as well, as a means of breaking good.]
Characters are supposed to be facets of the author's consciousness. So if a character needs a serious kickstart... go get your freak on?
An eighth of cubensis, a gourd rattle, and an old Smith-Corona?
@gods-n-clods: Amen brother. I see dull characters as a fault of the author to see the potential of a character. It's the difference between watching Adam West play himself in Family Guy, which is awesome... and watching him play a dictator in Nation Lampoon's Ratko. (Horrible movie btw, avoid it like the plague) Both have the potential... but one is the product of a weak writer.
A little "inspiration"... in whatever form it may take... is just what the doctor ordered for most. Looking at things from a different angle always helps.
If a character is just horrible... an utter drag on the narrative... (which can and does happen... not all plans work out) sometimes the best thing is to consolidate them into another character.
For example, you can have a character who's major role is to question the captain at a critical moment disappear if you plague him with self doubt. A character who's role is to be a mindless thug working against the hero? Nuke him and suddenly a trusted aid is a double agent.
This can usually be done with a little thoughtful editing, but it has to be handled with care. The last thing you want is a character who is written one way 90% and suddenly changes in the final chapter.
Dear Makidian:
One day, I was writing my Guiding Light fanfiction, and it just wasn't working out. Then I saw some kids on the bus reading comic books, I think it was about this guy named Adam-X the X-treme. Anyway, that gave me a great idea. One revision later, I knew I was on to something. I pitched it to ABC and the rest is history.
Sincerely,
The Guy Who Came Up With Heroes
funny.you guys keep putting up cover art from old pulps and i own all of the pulps you took images of.this one you showed is from 1949 or 50 and it is a thrilling wonder quaterly.all or most of the stories came from earlier thrilling wonders or science wonder or wonder stories issues.lots of the reprints came from the 1930's era.
NOTE:
C.A.Smith story is perfect example as that one was from an early Wonder Stories (I OWN) and it is an oversize pulp from 1930 or 31.
11/20/09
I have a very large imagination. Even more so when I've been smoking weed. Its legal in CA and I take it for medical reasons but the Deep Deep thinking I also get from it is a nice bonus.
I've come up with maybe five really good idea's that could be made into pretty good books if a skilled writer had the same idea's.
But I'm no writer.
The main question I have is how do writers divide their minds up into different personalities for each character so that every character doesn't just sound like the writer him/herself?
I read reviews of bad books on amazon and the main complaint besides spelling and bad sentence structure's that make no sense is that the author was just writing about what he would do in the situation he was writing about. Its usually the self published books with 1 - 1 and a half stars.
How do skilled writers avoid this? When I think of it I wonder if the writers just think of people they know/knew really well and try to put them into the characters in someways. I don't know. That was my theory on it.
I'm just trying to learn from other peoples mistakes before I do anything and this seemed like a good place to ask.
Thanks.
11/21/09
Your question is both good and hard to answer since everyone has their own style of writing. I don't have a problem infusing a bit of personality into my character from people that I have known but it stops there, and it helps solve a very specific purpose.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
I haven't read any of these authors (for shame!) and I'm interested to see how their comments (and my subjective 'liking' of the authors, based on their comments) actually translates in to liking their work (and their characters), when I do.
BTW Was the question phrased with a gender orientation? The first thing I thought when I saw the strapline "She's dull, or He doesn't play well with others.", was James Cameron's (from Walter Hill) "You write dialogue for a guy and then change the name" about writing strong, interesting (on the screen?) female characters versus 'Hollywood handbags' [at [www.newyorker.com] (half way down starting "Hollywood..."), from [io9.com] ].
Pretty much all of his successful, resonant ("dollars is votes") characters (Terminator, Sarah Connor) are quintessentially 'dull' and definitely 'don't play well with others'.
Is this just a movie thing or do authors like to 'switcheroo' too, when the going gets tough?
11/19/09
Of course, Orson Scott Card described Cameron as "cruel, selfish and unkind to all" [en.wikipedia.org] , how does this translate to authors?
Just asking :)
11/19/09
11/19/09
Another good reason to read these authors :)
[Still like to know if they'd ever used a gender switch 'as', or 'as the start of' the solution to this 'problem'.
Not just to switchback the reader's preconceptions and expectations of the character, but their own as well, as a means of breaking good.]
11/19/09
An eighth of cubensis, a gourd rattle, and an old Smith-Corona?
11/19/09
A little "inspiration"... in whatever form it may take... is just what the doctor ordered for most. Looking at things from a different angle always helps.
If a character is just horrible... an utter drag on the narrative... (which can and does happen... not all plans work out) sometimes the best thing is to consolidate them into another character.
For example, you can have a character who's major role is to question the captain at a critical moment disappear if you plague him with self doubt. A character who's role is to be a mindless thug working against the hero? Nuke him and suddenly a trusted aid is a double agent.
This can usually be done with a little thoughtful editing, but it has to be handled with care. The last thing you want is a character who is written one way 90% and suddenly changes in the final chapter.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
Had to do that with a character I liked but didn't fit.
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
11/19/09
Dear Makidian:
One day, I was writing my Guiding Light fanfiction, and it just wasn't working out. Then I saw some kids on the bus reading comic books, I think it was about this guy named Adam-X the X-treme. Anyway, that gave me a great idea. One revision later, I knew I was on to something. I pitched it to ABC and the rest is history.
Sincerely,
The Guy Who Came Up With Heroes
11/19/09
NOTE:
C.A.Smith story is perfect example as that one was from an early Wonder Stories (I OWN) and it is an oversize pulp from 1930 or 31.
04/17/09
04/17/09
04/17/09
04/17/09
Darth Braak.
HE LIVES!
04/17/09
Hehe, Darth Ed.
04/17/09
04/17/09
Rename the Sarlacc after me and I think we have a deal.